Help going from 5gal to 10gal batches

[TexasDroughtBrewery]

Hey Guys,

So, I have been brewing 5 gallon batches and they are just going to quickly for the amount of time it takes to make them. If I was the only one drinking the beer it wouldn't be a big deal but everyone likes to come over and drink the home brew...which is part of the fun for me in the hobby. OK...lets get to the point.

I have 3, 8 gallon kettles right now. Typically when I do my mash I don't put more than 3 1/5 gallons of water in my mash tun and another 3 to 4 in my hot liqour tank to get about 6 or so gallons of pre-boiled wort. My question is to up my game to 10 gallon batches is all I really need is one 15 gallon boil kettle and the other two pots can stay at the 8 gallon size?? b/c there is still plenty of room in both of them if they are only half full for 5 gallon batches..

Please help!

 

[JLeuck64]

Check out this neat mash calculator on Green Bay Rackers web page

They have some other pretty cool calculators too, but when I was first thinking about making the jump from 5gal batches to 10gal I quickly discovered that I would not have enough room in my mash tun... ) :

I was in the same boat as you, needed to double a recipe that goes way to fast! That recipe uses 10.5 lbs of grain and I like to mash in with 1.5 qts/lb so the calculator told me I would need 9.5gal of space... time to upgrade the equipment!

Get those buddies to make some donations! ( ;

 

[Stillraining]

My suggestion is to move to a cooler( rectangle is cheapest) for mashing and then split the boil volume between your 2 or even 3 pots if necessary.

 

[tootal]

My suggestion is to move to a cooler( rectangle is cheapest) for mashing and then split the boil volume between your 2 or even 3 pots if necessary.

This would be a good way just wanted to remind you to split your hops up evenly between the kettles so you get the most out of them. If you do go to a 15 gallon kettle you could still go with a cooler mash tun if you're wanting to save some money.

 

[Stillraining]

This would be a good way just wanted to remind you to split your hops up evenly between the kettles so you get the most out of them. If you do go to a 15 gallon kettle you could still go with a cooler mash tun if you're wanting to save some money.

Exactly...Here is my simple "John Deere Brewery".

I mash in and mash out in a rectangle cooler, 2 quart vorluf then transfer the wort to a 5 gal pot sitting on the ground at full throttle ( valve wide open)and when almost full, close the valve on the cooler, pick it up and pore that into my 16G pot sitting on my burner. and do it again, and again until my complete sparge/boil volume is obtained rather that's 7 or 13 gal.
My hot preheated sparge water is already in another rectangle cooler out of picture which I just use a plastic pitcher to transfer it over with. I was done brewing in 2 hours 50 min today. Start to finish. And by that I mean from the time I drug stuff out till it was all cleaned and put away , with beer in primary's and yeast pitched.

I love Batch Sparging...

If you cant spring for the bigger pot right now just split your 10g batch & (hops) as mentioned above between 2 or 3 pots, boil up individually then mix and match all together before fermenting. Or not if you want to try different hops in each one. Sort of PartyGile style.

 

[jrcrilly]

A 15 gallon boil kettle and a ten gallon cooler mash tun will handle most 10 gallon batches. I used that setup all year.

 

[Cyclman]

Or go to a 15G kettle and do BIAB.

 

[TexasDroughtBrewery]

These are some good idea's guys, I am going to think on this b/c I really need to up the game to 10 gallons.

 

[Stillraining]

These are some good idea's guys, I am going to think on this b/c I really need to up the game to 10 gallons.

It doesn't have to be new or fancy...Mine's been around the block a few times.
As long as they don't leak your good to go.

 

[RM-MN]

Challenge your buddies. Tell them that you make much better beer than any of them could. Make a contest of it and see if you can get any of them to take up brewing to compete with you. You might have to drink some absolute swill as they get started and share their creations but you can give them some pointers and make real brewers out of some of them. Then you don't have to deal with the bigger batches.

Of course some of them will just be cheap and drink your beer for free but in time you will know which ones to forget to invite.

 

[JF_HBrews]

A lot of great advice already. One more tip I can add is that a 15 gallon pot of water/wort is very heavy. So, have a plan for moving it, either with a brewing helper or by using your existing smaller pot to ferry the dangerously hot liquid to your mash tun,etc.

 

[Nagorg]

If you are going to buy a new kettle, I'd recommend a 20G over a 15G for 10G batches. Trust me, you will appreciate the extra headroom.

 

[CA_Mouse]

If you are going to buy a new kettle, I'd recommend a 20G over a 15G for 10G batches. Trust me, you will appreciate the extra headroom.

Why would he need that much extra headroom? I boil 14 gallons in my 16 gallon kettle and have never had a boil over. I routinely make 12 gallons in my kettle without any issues.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Why would he need that much extra headroom? I boil 14 gallons in my 16 gallon kettle and have never had a boil over. I routinely make 12 gallons in my kettle without any issues.

BiaB later down the road. I eek out 9 gallons from a keggle BiaB no-sparge. I can do 11 gallons if I sparge but it takes away a lot of the ease and simplicity that makes that system so attractive. When the difference in price between 15 and 20 gallon pots is so low, it is nice to have the option.

 

[oogaboogachiefwalkingdeer]

I do ten gallon all the time. Two pots one cooler to mash in. One pot is 8 the other is 11. For a ten gallon batch most take on average 20 lbs of grain. This will take around 7 gal to mash and 10 gal to sparge. So heat 7 in one kettle to strike temp and add to cooler. put 5 gal in two pots and heat the sparge water. When you mash out and drain catch fluid in a few buckets. Mix each bucket well and divide into two kettles and good to go.

 

[TexasDroughtBrewery]

A lot of great advice already. One more tip I can add is that a 15 gallon pot of water/wort is very heavy. So, have a plan for moving it, either with a brewing helper or by using your existing smaller pot to ferry the dangerously hot liquid to your mash tun,etc.

Honestly, didn't think about this...very solid point. I do have a pump but I will still need to keep this in mind. ipe:

 

[Nagorg]

Why would he need that much extra headroom? I boil 14 gallons in my 16 gallon kettle and have never had a boil over. I routinely make 12 gallons in my kettle without any issues.

I didn't say that it would be "needed". I said that it would be appreciated.

Just as Onkel_Udo said, the cost difference is minimal so why would you want to limit yourself with a smaller kettle? If you are in need of buying a new kettle anyway, why not choose something a little larger that gives you more room to grow? Using your minimal headroom logic, the 20G kettle would be great (safer) for 10G batches while allowing a 15G batch too if you wanted to push it.

From Blichmann Engineering on kettle sizing:
"We recommend a boil kettle approximately 2 times the size of the finished batch size. Although this may seem a bit much, a 10 gallon batch will typically start with a 13 to 14 gallon pre-boil once you compensate for cooling contraction, transfer losses, and boil-off. This will allow for a reasonable head space to reduce boil-over problems. For example, if you're a 10 gallon batch brewer, you'd select the 20 gallon BoilerMaker™ brew pot as your boil kettle."

 

[Stillraining]

I do ten gallon all the time. Two pots one cooler to mash in. One pot is 8 the other is 11. For a ten gallon batch most take on average 20 lbs of grain. This will take around 7 gal to mash and 10 gal to sparge. So heat 7 in one kettle to strike temp and add to cooler. put 5 gal in two pots and heat the sparge water. When you mash out and drain catch fluid in a few buckets. Mix each bucket well and divide into two kettles and good to go.

Rock On dude...that's what I was talking about. :rockin:

 

[OkanaganMike]

Or go to a 15G kettle and do BIAB.

Curious how this would work. I BIAB in a 15gal keggle and have a hard time getting the 11-15 lbs of grain out for a 5gal batch.

Been thinking of possibly going to a custom cone type bag (for ease of removal) upping the mash water to around 11gal, mashing the 20-30lbs grain and after removal of grain adding water to bring up the boil amount to around 12gals. Would this work and is this what you do?

 

[Stillraining]

Honestly, didn't think about this...very solid point. I do have a pump but I will still need to keep this in mind. ipe:

Im trying to save you the cost of buying a new kettle..but if you want to go that rout I recommend this one. I don't have to lift it..I place my fermentation buckets right under the spigot at the end of boil and let her fly. Chill first if going into glass carboys...I don't so the almost 200degree wort kills everything it touches. Easy peasy to add wort chiller to buckets and agitate around airaiting the wort at the same time, and im down to <68 degrees in less then 6 min this time of year with our cold 50 degree well water. You would have to elevate your burner pot set up just high enough to get your fermentator under the spigot like in my picture ...easy to do. And you will find a free cooler from some where if you ask around, Then put a valve on it in plce of the drain...there are cheap ways to do that as well if need be. I went all stainless valve and whats called a "no weld" adapter for about 20.00

Carry on.

 

[broadbill]

Curious how this would work. I BIAB in a 15gal keggle and have a hard time getting the 11-15 lbs of grain out for a 5gal batch.

Been thinking of possibly going to a custom cone type bag (for ease of removal) upping the mash water to around 11gal, mashing the 20-30lbs grain and after removal of grain adding water to bring up the boil amount to around 12gals. Would this work and is this what you do?

I know people employ pulleys and various other hoists to lift that much wet grain; I would guess that part of the problem is you are using a keggle which tends to be cut to leave a 3-4 inch rim at the top. It would be tough pulling a bag through that constriction if it wasn't properly sized.

 

[CA_Mouse]

Im trying to save you the cost of buying a new kettle..but if you want to go that rout I recommend this one. I don't have to lift it..I place my fermentation buckets right under the spigot at the end of boil and let her fly. Chill first if going into glass carboys...I don't so the almost 200degree wort kills everything it touches. Easy peasy to add wort chiller to buckets and agitate around airaiting the wort at the same time, and im down to <68 degrees in less then 6 min this time of year with our cold 50 degree well water. You would have to elevate your burner pot set up just high enough to get your fermentator under the spigot like in my picture ...easy to do. And you will find a free cooler from some where if you ask around, Then put a valve on it in plce of the drain...there are cheap ways to do that as well if need be. I went all stainless valve and whats called a "no weld" adapter for about 20.00

Carry on.

Same one I have. I, also, have the 11 gallon one for my HLT.

 

[schematix]

If you're going to buy any new vesesls I'd suggest buying 3x20G vessels.... then you can make 15G batches (although its very tight - i use fermcap and top up water usually). Works just fine for 10G batches too for those times when you may want to experiment or making something strong (e.g. barley wine or DIPA).

 

[OkanaganMike]

I know people employ pulleys and various other hoists to lift that much wet grain; I would guess that part of the problem is you are using a keggle which tends to be cut to leave a 3-4 inch rim at the top. It would be tough pulling a bag through that constriction if it wasn't properly sized.

Yeah its about a 2" lip and the bags flare out at the bottom which is why I'm thinking of the cone shape I've seen on this forum somewhere. The current weight isn't an issue but sure would be with the larger grain bill.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

I know people employ pulleys and various other hoists to lift that much wet grain; I would guess that part of the problem is you are using a keggle which tends to be cut to leave a 3-4 inch rim at the top. It would be tough pulling a bag through that constriction if it wasn't properly sized.

Nope, I hacked the top off. 16-20#' of grain plus a minimum of 12 gallons (10.5 pre-boil for 9 gallons in the fermenter) of water have a hard time occupying the same space...and that is for a 9 gallon beer. Have not done the math lately but we are talking at least one more gallon to go to 10 gallon net.

 

[Diver_Alan]

If you are going to buy a new kettle, I'd recommend a 20G over a 15G for 10G batches. Trust me, you will appreciate the extra headroom.

If you do buy a new kettle I would also recommend going with a 20G. The 15 will work but it will be almost full and boil overs may be a problem. With a 20G you wont have to worry about boil overs and the cost difference between two is not that much.

Depending on what kind of beers you brew you might also consider going larger with the mash tun. If you make 10 gallons of RIS your grain will be almost (or exceed) 40 lbs.

 

[Nagorg]

Not to mention that if you ever do 90 minute boils (typical with a lot of pilsen) you'll also need a bigger pre-boil volume.

 

[oogaboogachiefwalkingdeer]

Not to mention that if you ever do 90 minute boils (typical with a lot of pilsen) you'll also need a bigger pre-boil volume.

I do all pilsners all the time 8 gal works fine for 90 min boil.

 

[Nagorg]

I do all pilsners all the time 8 gal works fine for 90 min boil.

For a 10G batch?

 

[oogaboogachiefwalkingdeer]

He has three 8 gal kettles. Slit the boil between two kettles. I have a 8 and a 11 gal and do 10 gal batchs 5 for each kettle. Two 8 gal kettles would work fine.

 

[BlackFurnaceBrewing]

I had the same issue as the OP before expanding to do 8 and 10 g batches on a setup with one 15g BK, one 10g HLT, one 10g MLT and two 10g igloo CLT's. Works like a charm, thoogh my "chokepoint" is always the 10g MLT. Everything else will handle whatever I throw at it. (To be completely transparent, though, I have boiled over the BK once having forgotten my femdrops.)

To help deal with the MLT chokepoint - as I am adamant to stick with 10g here - I moved to dual batch sparges and warm the sparge water while the mash is ongoing. I also simply limit the really high gravity specialty stuff to 5g. No issue for me at all since I never really need more that 5g of Kentuckiy Breakfast Stout, anyway. Finally, for my high gravity IPA's, I usually make 8g, or if I really need 10g, I supplement with a little DME.

So, the moral of the story is you can work with whatever you have if you get creative enough with your processes and really examine your needs on a recipe by recipe basis.

 

[Nagorg]

Managing two boil kettles at the same time just sounds like a PITA. Twice the burners, chilers etc...

 

[Cyclman]

20G kettles are not much more $$$ than 15G, so you can go either way (nobody ever regrets getting the engine with more horsepower). I would recommend a burner with leg extensions (such as Blichmann), so that you can drain your chilled wort directly into a fermenter. Carrying 2 full 5G fermenters isn't so bad (use straps if you like carboys!). My recommendation to a friend was a 15G aluminum kettle, with a blichmann burner w/leg extensions.

With a 15G, you can mash at 1.25 qt / gal., and do all but the highest gravity beers. I would use an extra pot for a few gallons on the stovetop, sparge with that. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=123585

I have a hook in my ceiling, use a Wilserbrewer bag (with a cord / ratchet pully), works great. I have a 3-tier also, but BIAB is the simple, cheap way to go.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Yeah its about a 2" lip and the bags flare out at the bottom which is why I'm thinking of the cone shape I've seen on this forum somewhere. The current weight isn't an issue but sure would be with the larger grain bill.

Yes, we are now making specific keggle shaped bags with a heavy taper that are smaller and more narrow at the bottom to keep the grain bill as small as possible to ease extraction from the kettle.

I'll post a photo when I get a chance.

 

[mhurst111]

Please help!

one piece of advice that i wish i would have gotten when switching from 5 to 10 gallons.

Don't start drinking until the boil starts. Getting 14 gallons to a boil with the same burner i used for 7 gallons took A LOT longer.

My first 10 gallon batch got a little fuzzy when i started drinking at mash out like I do when only doing 5 gallons. I think i missed a hop addition near then end.

 

[oogaboogachiefwalkingdeer]

Managing two boil kettles at the same time just sounds like a PITA. Twice the burners, chilers etc...

Actually may be easier. Not as heavy so no pumps or bad backs. The small kettles cool faster as well. It takes the same 5 hrs weather it is two kettles or one big one. It is no big deal and easy done.

 

[Nagorg]

@TexasDroughtBrewery Take what you will from these comments. My recommendation stands for a 20G assuming you are buying a new kettle anyway.

 

[TexasDroughtBrewery]

@TexasDroughtBrewery Take what you will from these comments. My recommendation stands for a 20G assuming you are buying a new kettle anyway.

Yes, I will be buying a new kettle. The biggest eye opener so far is the weight it will add and not being able to lift it unless I change my process to BIAB or get some type of pully system.

These insights made me want to save a little longer and move to all electric brewing won't have to worry about moving pots or any of these hassles.

 

[broadbill]

Yes, I will be buying a new kettle. The biggest eye opener so far is the weight it will add and not being able to lift it unless I change my process to BIAB or get some type of pully system.

These insights made me want to save a little longer and move to all electric brewing won't have to worry about moving pots or any of these hassles.

you don't need to go electric...you just need a pump.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I use a 20 gallon concord pot with the basket (ebay) Great pot.1/2 auto siphon fills a 5 gallon bucket in one minute.So I don't use a valve.Do yourself a favor and buy the basket.I forgot to use the basket once and it sucked squeezing a sticky bag.And it makes for an easier sparge with an open bag in a basket..I made this hoist and it works awesome,I brew in my kitchen and a mounting a pulley on the ceiling would have led to a divorce.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=508766