Help choosing a pump.

[jekeane]

I have some gift card money to spend at northern brewer. There isn't a ton that I need / want from there as my lhbs has a decent selection. I could get a mill but from what I can tell the monster mill is the best they offer but they don't offer it with the stainless rollers.
Pumps are the other option and I eventually want 2 so money aside because i know the prices at NB are higher than some (but this is where i have the cards to) Which pump that they offer would you purchase?

Edit: Apparently they do carry a chugger as well it just doesn't show when you click on their pumps link... I found it by accident

Chugger $120
Poly head
1/20th
7gpm

NB Steelhead $179
Steel inline head
1/20th horsepower

March 809 PL $179
Poly head
1/25th horsepower 6gpm

March 815 pl $199
Poly head
7gpm

 

[Yesfan]

Everybody's different, but if it were me, I'd get a mill before a pump. I have a chugger pump that I used maybe twice, but my grain mill has seen maybe 10 times the use. It's a Barley Crusher.

 

[jekeane]

Everybody's different, but if it were me, I'd get a mill before a pump. I have a chugger pump that I used maybe twice, but my grain mill has seen maybe 10 times the use. It's a Barley Crusher.

I want a mill and totally see the benefits. I actually have enough on these cards for a mill and pump or two pumps. Mills seem to be much more difficult to pin down on which is "best". The Monster Mill is about the only one that doesn't have people who dislike it. But the reviews i have read suggest the stainless rollers are what you want for the mill and NB doesn't seem to offer them.

As for the pumps use I have been doing 10g batches lately and moving that volume kills my back.

 

[Yesfan]

I want a mill and totally see the benefits. I actually have enough on these cards for a mill and pump or two pumps. Mills seem to be much more difficult to pin down on which is "best". The Monster Mill is about the only one that doesn't have people who dislike it. But the reviews i have read suggest the stainless rollers are what you want for the mill and NB doesn't seem to offer them.

As for the pumps use I have been doing 10g batches lately and moving that volume kills my back.

I'm not an expert on mills, but I can't complain about my Barley Crusher. It's more than enough mill for me. Heck, there's some members here that are using a cheaper priced Cornona mill.

If one is doing 10 gallon batches or bigger, I can see where a pump has more value. Like I said, "everyone is different". I'm currently only doing 5 gallon batches, so a pump doesn't have as much value to me as my grain mill. If I were doing bigger batches, then that changes everything.

If you're doing more 10 gallon batches than 5, then I would probably vote pump over mill. If your system is a three vessel setup, I would probably go two pumps over a pump and mill.

 

[Riot]

I'm gonna suggest you grab a good mill and a bunch of ingredients with your NB cash. I feel like pumps can be cheap as all hell, no reason to spend 2 bills per. Get 2 of the 24v little tan pumps for 20 each and a 24v led power supple for Amazon for another 25 with the cash you just saved on ingredients for the next several months

 

[Onescalerguy]

Got any specifics on the $20 24v pump you speak of?

 

[Riot]

http://m.ebay.com/itm/311011966284?nav=SEARCH
Max flow rate 12 litres per minute, Max head 5 metres. There are a bunch of people on Homebrewtalk that use them and are happy with them.

 

[Nagorg]

Cant speak to the $20.00 pump though I'd want to be sure it was food grade. Otherwise, looks like it would be good for circulating water through an IC possibly or for use with a HERMS coil.

On the other pumps, I have a chugger. I use it on every brew day since I'm brewing 10G+ batches. I wouldn't want to do without it!

I cant say it doesn't have issues though. It can be finicky and throw the magnet sometimes. Seems to do it more when moving liquid closer to boiling temps. It's easy to overcome though by turning off the pump, letting it spin down, them restricting the outflow and turning it back on again. I suspect this might be due to my side pickup tube that is slightly smaller than 1/2"; you aren't supposed to restrict the inlet but the outlet is fine for restricted flow. I will be testing this theory soon with a re-designed pickup in the kettle.

Overall, the chugger has been well worth the money.

 

[augiedoggy]

http://m.ebay.com/itm/311011966284?nav=SEARCH
Max flow rate 12 litres per minute, Max head 5 metres. There are a bunch of people on Homebrewtalk that use them and are happy with them.

I have used both the 12v and the better 24v versions of these pumps for almost 2 years and for over 50 brew sessions on my electric brewery and they work great. (they are made of food grade PPS plastic and stainless and are made for foodgrade use with pps plastic coated magnets)

On a sidnote I dont see the point in having to have the "best" grainmill unless you own a homebrewing store and grind grain for customers if you read the instructions and dont abuse it they will pretty much all work fine... I have a $99 cereal killer and it works great, no need for stainless steel rollers since carbon steel is harder and you have no reason to wet them.

 

[kanzimonson]

I'm surprised to hear everybody is so pro mill over pump. If you have an LHBS, you can get your grain milled. Sure, it requires a slight bit of extra planning but you're probably going to go there for other reasons anyway. Buying a pump was a life changing moment in my brewing - no more lifting heavy, hot kettles of precious liquid, moving liquids around is easy, and whirlpool hop-stands and chilling brought my beers to the next level.

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm surprised to hear everybody is so pro mill over pump. If you have an LHBS, you can get your grain milled. Sure, it requires a slight bit of extra planning but you're probably going to go there for other reasons anyway. Buying a pump was a life changing moment in my brewing - no more lifting heavy, hot kettles of precious liquid, moving liquids around is easy, and whirlpool hop-stands and chilling brought my beers to the next level.

I believe only one person suggested a mill is more important than the pump... the other suggested a $20 pump AND a mill... Grainmills start out close to $40 for a flour /corona style mill which works but a dual roller grain mill makes a noticeably better more consistent crush whereas a $20 3gpm food grade pump, pumps well enough to make beer with no problems... I believe the lower flow actually helps prevent stuck sparges and plugged grainbeds while recirculating during the mash.

if I had $150 and had niether I would certianly be investing in a dual roller mill AND a 24v pumps like the one suggested above. In fact as I mentioned I have a 99dollar mill and use 3 24v tan pumps identical to the one linked above. I connect them right inline with camlocks and leave all my hoses connected so I only have to turn a few ballvalves to brew instead of constantly disconnecting and moving pumps and lines...
you can see a picture of the amount of water these pumps will actually pump in my build thread below.

 

[kanzimonson]

There's not many essential reasons to have a mill - pretty much the only one I can think of is if you don't have a LHBS. Sure, it's nice to buy grain in bulk (but then, it'd be hard to imagine your LHBS won't let you use theirs), and it's nice to play with your crush/efficiency. But if you're at the point where saving money through increased efficiency is that important, then you probably don't have the money for a mill in the first place.

And all of this is coming from someone who has a mill - I like that I can brew on the spot if I have some free time, but in most cases I've already thought about my brew session days in advance because I'm making a starter, thinking about the recipe, checking my inventory, etc.

 

[timpoulsen]

Buy what you want. Inviting others is like shopping with a woman, you never get what you wanted to begin with and ended paying more than you wished.

 

[LandoLincoln]

I own a March 809 and a Chugger. Both perform admirably and I'd recommend either.

The head type is (or should be) dependent on where you're planning on having the pump in your rig. If the pump will be close to the ground then you should go with a center feed pump. If the pump is higher up then you should get an in-line head.

Plastic head vs. SS head: I started out with a plastic head and I eventually swapped it out with a SS head. I was always afraid of cracking the plastic threads and because of that I had fittings on the end that were a bit loose and leaked some. So I got a SS head and was no longer afraid of cracking threads and now my fittings are nice and stable. Just my personal experience.

 

[LandoLincoln]

There's not many essential reasons to have a mill - pretty much the only one I can think of is if you don't have a LHBS. Sure, it's nice to buy grain in bulk (but then, it'd be hard to imagine your LHBS won't let you use theirs), and it's nice to play with your crush/efficiency. But if you're at the point where saving money through increased efficiency is that important, then you probably don't have the money for a mill in the first place.

And all of this is coming from someone who has a mill - I like that I can brew on the spot if I have some free time, but in most cases I've already thought about my brew session days in advance because I'm making a starter, thinking about the recipe, checking my inventory, etc.

Often times people mess with the LHBS mill gap and you can get fluctuating efficiency because of that, which can be very frustrating.

 

[augiedoggy]

my experience has been different...I buy sacks of grain for the large savings and it costs extra to have it milled and bagged..(if I buy in a group buy I can get the grain for about $40 for a 50lb bag) I also buy buy specialty grains in 1lb bags unmilled... I store these for future use and when milled I have been told it goes stale within a few months.
I also buy some kits and grains online and they often charge extra to have it milled... for me the $99 cost has already paid for itself in the first year. everyone's experiences are different though and we all do things differently.

I also found there is a very large change in efficiency depending on the grain mills settings and to me having consistent results from a mill I set once and dont mess with is worth it vs having my beers come out differently depending on the mill they were milled on and the varying settings used...

 

[Riot]

The only reason I really cared enough to buy a mill was to get the reduced cost through my homebrew clubs group buys. $30-$40 per 50lb sack adds up really fast compared to $2 a lb. Knowing the gap doesn't change and having totally predicable efficiency has been awesome though.

 

[jekeane]

I'm surprised to hear everybody is so pro mill over pump. If you have an LHBS, you can get your grain milled. Sure, it requires a slight bit of extra planning but you're probably going to go there for other reasons anyway. Buying a pump was a life changing moment in my brewing - no more lifting heavy, hot kettles of precious liquid, moving liquids around is easy, and whirlpool hop-stands and chilling brought my beers to the next level.

if you have space and brew often you really can save a ton on grain by milling your own. my lhbs has a pretty poor crush so that is a factor as well for me.

 

[BSBrewer83]

As for the pumps use I have been doing 10g batches lately and moving that volume kills my back.

I use a single tier 3 vessel system. I have a chugger and March 809. They both work the same in my experience. I also have a barley crusher. I would go with the pumps. It makes brewing so much more enjoyable. Also cleaning up becomes easier as I then run clean water through the whole system after brew day then drain and air dry. Honestly my pumps are my favorite part of my system. I recommend getting the pumps set up like this http://www.morebeer.com/products/march-pump-assembly.html. Having the extra ball valve eliminates any issues with air bubbles in the line.

Once I'm done with the boil I recirculate the wort and then pump my 11g into the fermenter that is already in my fridge set up with temp control. It really makes life easy.

 

[Onescalerguy]

We have two sculptures(single tier)with March pumps that work fine.Recently we switched to CFCs from ICs and would like a dedicated CFC pump closer to the BK(so i don't have to prime all the lines and chiller beforehand for pumping).Thanks for the link Riot.So what do you use for inverter/converter and would 24v be better than 12?

 

[govner1]

If you're doing 10g batches you definitely need a pump (read March). I put my on a stand so I can move it as needed for moving strike water from my HLT to the Tun.
I gravity feed to my BK but use the pump again for chilling(CFC) whirl pooling.
I'd also go for the MM 3 roller if you can. But, plan on motorizing to get the most out of any good mill.

 

[Riot]

I have a 12v and a 24v version, the 24 is definitely faster and can handle more head pressure, the 12 has a pretty difficult time raising liquid more than a few feet. I use a power supply designed to drive LED strips, very similar to this
http://m.ebay.com/itm/301424192425?nav=SEARCH&varId=600467008530

 

[Onescalerguy]

Thanks a lot for the info Riot.Very helpful,i'm probably gonna go that route.

 

[augiedoggy]

I have a 12v and a 24v version, the 24 is definitely faster and can handle more head pressure, the 12 has a pretty difficult time raising liquid more than a few feet. I use a power supply designed to drive LED strips, very similar to this
http://m.ebay.com/itm/301424192425?nav=SEARCH&varId=600467008530

I use the same... remember each pump needs about 1 amp so if you plan to use say two pumps and have them plug into and be switched off of the power supply you will want at least a 2 amp powersupply...
I also went from 3 12v versions to the 24v versions and while mine had no issues pumping 4-5 ft high (as high as I tried to push liquid) the flow wasnt as high.. I did use the 12v version to push wort through my 25FT herms coil with no issues at all and I have to turn the pump down when pumping through my plate chiller in the winter.
24v versions are hands down better.

2 things to consider,
dont skimp on the power supply, using a supply you have with less voltage or amps than 1 amp per pump may work but not correctly... this is the #2 cause of issues I believe.
#1 cause is plugging them with grain. you need a good false bottom I use a fine stainless braid sock attached to my dip tube under my false bottom which prevents and grain from getting sucked int my pump.
it also aids in clearing the wort.

 

[Riot]

There's really no reason to not get a 5 amp supply, still comes in at about $20 and it gives you a bit of overhead. I've also stress tested mine with a 10W resistor and it starts making weird noises when you get it above 3 amps draw

 

[augiedoggy]

There's really no reason to not get a 5 amp supply, still comes in at about $20 and it gives you a bit of overhead. I've also stress tested mine with a 10W resistor and it starts making weird noises when you get it above 3 amps draw

yup, I had the 6 amp supply (they can be found for $14 shipped from ebay) and I accidentally shorted it out when wiring my flow switch for my rims so I found another 5amp supply I had laying in an old box of parts from work which I use now.. no worries of struggling pumps with the extra cushion.
I had my 12v pumps running off a cheap 3 amp supply and they were not getting enough power to run all 3 without struggling.

 

[preinke]

Will a PWM method work to control the speed of the 24 Volt pumps ? If so, any idea what period should be used and minimum on time ?

TIA

 

[jekeane]

NB has a 15% site wide sale going on in honor of nerd day errr Star Wars day. so I went ahead and used the gift cards. With the sale I was able to get 2 chugger pumps and a barley crusher. Hooray for gift cards! Saved enough that it made NB prices closer to their competitors.

 

[BSBrewer83]

Awesome!

 

[adamranders]

So can these pumps be wired directly to the power supply Riot linked to, or does there need to be a resister or anything wired inline, also the supplys look to have 3 sets of terminals, does anyone know if the power is split evenly between them or if there is some type of load balancing if say you wanted to hook up 4 pumps?

 

[Riot]

They can be wired directly, nothing is required inline. The first set of terminals is 110/220 in, the other 2 are the 24v out. There is no split on the output terminals, you can run any positive terminal with any negative. The extra terminals are just to make it easier to wire multiple devices