Help a brother out? Considering BIAB.

[petemoss]

Hey gang,

I'm pretty new to brewing. I have been doing 5 gallon extract batches thus far. I have been really excited by all of this and would like to make a move to all grain.

From an expense perspective I feel that BIAB is a logical first step. It may turn out that it will be the only step I will ever take, or it may lead to trying out three vessel stuff later on. That leads me to two questions.

First of all, while I am currently doing 5 gallon batches on extract and would probably start out doing them on BIAB, I do love the idea of being able to do 10 gallon batches with minimal extra effort. Should I get a 10 or so gallon kettle now and then a bigger one later? If I went ahead and got a bigger one now, say 15 or 20 gallons, would I still be able to do 5 gallon batches?

Secondly, I have read about reduced efficiency with BIAB. I know some of you can get high efficiency with BIAB and some do not. I have heard it many times that you can just increase the grain bill or "add an extra dollars worth of grain". My question is, if I am trying to copy an all grain recipe out of BYO for example, should I just use the recipe as is, or should I try to increase the amount of grain? If I increase it, is it like increase each grain by 10% or something like that?

I'm stoked and can't wait to try this out, I just don't want to make too many mistakes at this stage.

Thanks everyone,
Petemoss

 

[LLBeanJ]

Speaking from experience, a 15 gal BK works very well for 5 gal batches. Just be sure you go with a ball valve for draining the wort as it will make your life easier.

As far as recipes go, I believe most of them are based on 70-75% brew house efficiency, which you should be able to achieve with no problem. I do 6 gal batches and my typical BHE is right around 80%. When converting recipes, I usually just reduce the base malt to compensate.

 

[Iseneye]

You do not get poor mash-efficiency with BIAB. It seems that the people who claim that are 3 vessel brewers and not BIAB users.

I do 5ish gallon batches in a 10 gallon pot. There will be more head space if you're using a bigger pot which may result in mash temps falling but I haven't done it myself.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Speaking from experience, a 15 gal BK works very well for 5 gal batches. Just be sure you go with a ball valve for draining the wort as it will make your life easier.

As far as recipes go, I believe most of them are based on 70-75% brew house efficiency, which you should be able to achieve with no problem. I do 6 gal batches and my typical BHE is right around 80%. When converting recipes, I usually just reduce the base malt to compensate.

This.

 

[soccerdad]

This.

yup

 

[FatDragon]

A 20 gallon kettle would be a bit big for five gallon batches, so fifteen's probably a good compromise. 15 gallons will limit your capacity to do big beers in ten gallon batches, but you can make up for a lot of that by sparging the bag.

 

[AQUILAS]

If expense is a main concern, large kettles can be a bit expensive. A way around this is to get a large cooler, convert it into a mash tun, and then get a brew bag for it. Not sure how big the kettle you have now is, but a 70qt cooler will allow you to do big beers and you should be able to drain all the wort from it to your kettle. I do full-volume mashes in my 70qt coleman xtreme with a brew bag fit for the cooler. I already had a large enough kettle I got from craigslist, so that cut some cost off the top, but the cooler, bag, and the items needed to convert the cooler to a mash tun was just a bit above $100.

With regards to efficiency, I'm hitting very good efficiency. My first brew was set for 65% and I hit 70%. My second brew was set for 70% and I hit 74%. I had a brew day today with a recipe set for 70% (decided to leave it here in case my 2nd brew was a fluke) and I hit 84% efficiency.

 

[pretzelb]

As far as I know the only issue with going to big on a kettle (besides cost) is if you have a thermometer or something too high for a small batch. I think most biab stems for 10g use a 20g pot so you might want to consider that.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

I'm not a fan of size mounted thermometers. Get a good one from thermo works like the rt600c or Thermapen.

Fwiw, I'd rather have a 8G kettle with a ball valve than a 15G one without.

 

[Brewcycle69]

I've been using a 15gal for the last three years, mostly do 5 gal batches with the occasional 10 gal batch. 15 works well for both, as everyone else has said you just have to sparge with 3 or 4 gallons water when you do a 10 gallon batch. Would also agree you should have no problem getting 70%-75% efficiency.

Good luck, you'll enjoy BIAB.

 

[petemoss]

This is great info, thanks everyone.

I guess at this point I am leaning toward a 15 gallon kettle. The cooler is a great idea, but I currently only have a 5 gallon kettle, so I am kind of small for BIAB and would need to get a new boil kettle anyway I think. From what I understand I would need to boil 7-8 gallons for a 5 gallon batch. While I'm at it, that brings up another point of confusion. I went to brewersfriend.com and tried creating a recipe as a BIAB recipe from something that I found in BYO. I was under the impression that with BIAB you mashed with your full volume of water. The BF recipe had me striking with like 6.5 gals of water and then having the total water needed of like 8.5 gals. In this case would I just do the mash with the 6.5 and then use the extra 2 gals to rinse the grain into the brew kettle prior to boil?

I currently use a Thermoworks handheld thermometer, not the thermapen, but a cheaper model. I did like the idea of a built in thermometer though, so that I could just read it without having to hold the thermometer into the water. Do those work well built into the pot, or do they get caught up in / puncture the BIAB bag?

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I have a 20 gallon Ebiab. I haven't tried a 5 gallon batch with it.The element would be the issue.My pot is on average an inch a gallon.Figuring around a 6 gallon mash,would 6 inches be enough for a good mash,dont know. I have an opposite view on a valve.I would put the money into a larger pot and us a 1/2 Auto siphon.It takes just over a minute to drain 5 gallons,not a big deal. Im getting 80% efficiency.Buy a cereal killer grain mill.Work good and are the cheapest.Buy bulk grain,the savings will add up fast

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

This is great info, thanks everyone.

I guess at this point I am leaning toward a 15 gallon kettle. The cooler is a great idea, but I currently only have a 5 gallon kettle, so I am kind of small for BIAB and would need to get a new boil kettle anyway I think. From what I understand I would need to boil 7-8 gallons for a 5 gallon batch. While I'm at it, that brings up another point of confusion. I went to brewersfriend.com and tried creating a recipe as a BIAB recipe from something that I found in BYO. I was under the impression that with BIAB you mashed with your full volume of water. The BF recipe had me striking with like 6.5 gals of water and then having the total water needed of like 8.5 gals. In this case would I just do the mash with the 6.5 and then use the extra 2 gals to rinse the grain into the brew kettle prior to boil?

I currently use a Thermoworks handheld thermometer, not the thermapen, but a cheaper model. I did like the idea of a built in thermometer though, so that I could just read it without having to hold the thermometer into the water. Do those work well built into the pot, or do they get caught up in / puncture the BIAB bag?

The temp inside the bag and outside are pretty significant.I have a handheld I like to use while stirring to see if the temp equalizes.A pen is on my short list

 

[LLBeanJ]

I currently use a Thermoworks handheld thermometer, not the thermapen, but a cheaper model. I did like the idea of a built in thermometer though, so that I could just read it without having to hold the thermometer into the water. Do those work well built into the pot, or do they get caught up in / puncture the BIAB bag?

I've always used a hand held thermometer. I have never tried the built-in type, but due to temperature stratification it doesn't seem practical to me unless you're recirculating. Do a couple BIAB mashes and you'll see what I mean. Also, yes, the bag will get hung up on the probe. Stick with the hand-held model, it works just fine.

 

[schiersteinbrewing]

A 15.5gal or 16gal bayou classic kettle works great especially for the price. A 62qt (15.5gal) kettle can be had for under $100 on Amazon, add the basket it jumps to $146, or go with the 64qt (16gal) kettle for $140.

For BIAB I personally wouldn't install a thermometer in the kettle, just get you a good digital pen one. Also, I'd get a bag from Wilser, they are great and if you burn a hole in the bag he will repair it.

I recently brewed a 10gal BIAB batch with 11gal water and 25lbs of grain in the 62qt Bayou classic with basket it was almost at the rim.

I started out BIAB with a 40qt (10gal), then went to a 62qt (15.5gal).

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

A lot of people use a bayou classic.I use this.Will last a lifetime http://www.ebay.com/itm/CONCORD-Sta...hash=item20dabbaf23:m:mMoOMZ1DF-Zbp6-2h6wwS4w

 

[TexasWine]

While I'm at it, that brings up another point of confusion. I went to brewersfriend.com and tried creating a recipe as a BIAB recipe from something that I found in BYO. I was under the impression that with BIAB you mashed with your full volume of water. The BF recipe had me striking with like 6.5 gals of water and then having the total water needed of like 8.5 gals. In this case would I just do the mash with the 6.5 and then use the extra 2 gals to rinse the grain into the brew kettle prior to boil?

Make sure you have your equipment profile set up with the appropriate boil off and grain absorption losses, but also make sure it is set to BIAB. That should fix your problem.

 

[jason.mundy]

I did like the idea of a built in thermometer though, so that I could just read it without having to hold the thermometer into the water. Do those work well built into the pot, or do they get caught up in / puncture the BIAB bag?

I've ripped a few bags trying to get them out of the keggle that had the Blichmann Brewmometer mounted on the side. I've gone back to using a floating thermometer in the mash with a thermo pen handy.

 

[soccerdad]

FWIW, I have never had a bag catch on my therm probe. I think the built in thermometer is a great tool for monitoring the mash. I check it against a thermapen about once a month and it stays spot on.

 

[Gavin C]

make a move to all grain.

Do it you will enjoy brewing all the more I think. More challenging equates to more fun in my mind



First of all, while I am currently doing 5 gallon batches on extract and would probably start out doing them on BIAB, I do love the idea of being able to do 10 gallon batches with minimal extra effort. Should I get a 10 or so gallon kettle now and then a bigger one later? If I went ahead and got a bigger one now, say 15 or 20 gallons, would I still be able to do 5 gallon batches?

Depends on the heat source. Is it powerful enough to bring 12 gallons to the boil, heat 13 gallons to strike temps. If it's a stove can it handle the weight. Lifting 10+gallon batches is a bad idea. Spigot and a pump are great to have.


Secondly, I have read about reduced efficiency with BIAB. I know some of you can get high efficiency with BIAB and some do not. I have heard it many times that you can just increase the grain bill or "add an extra dollars worth of grain". My question is, if I am trying to copy an all grain recipe out of BYO for example, should I just use the recipe as is, or should I try to increase the amount of grain? If I increase it, is it like increase each grain by 10% or something like that?

As with any system, not related to the number of vessels some brewers will see a higher efficiency than others through tweaks in their process. I find predictable and consistent BH efficiencies at or near 80% are very achievable. Bigger grain-bills as with most setups will result in lower numbers.

I'm stoked and can't wait to try this out, I just don't want to make too many mistakes at this stage.

Mistakes are always good things to learn from. It's only the mistakes you are unaware of that should be a concern.


Thanks everyone,
Petemoss

FWIW I do 5.5 gallon stove top batches. I use a ball valve, pump and a few other doo-dads that make my brew-days enjoyable and not too labor intensive. I have a dial thermometer on my pot that is useful only as an indicator of stability. It is not as precise as my Thermapen.

If you are looking into getting kit and are prioritizing I would pass on a dial thermometer, not because it snags the bag (I know it's there so snagging is never a problem) but because there are better thermometers to buy.

Some things I would put on my hot-side BIAB wish list

• A good bag (look no futher than @Wilserbrewer )*
• A Thermapen (sign up for their emails and you'll get one for $79)
• A 10+ gallon pot (Mine is 11g but called a 10gallon Megapot)
• A ball-valve
• A good chiller ( I like my plate chiller)
• A pump

*This is really the only required investment, all else is desirable.

There is an article and thread below that outline my process in more detail. You might see some ideas and gadjets that you could use. Maybe not. I think single vessel brewing with a bag-manifold is a great way to brew with many under-used advantages. I say do it.

 

[Homercidal]

I was under the impression that with BIAB you mashed with your full volume of water. The BF recipe had me striking with like 6.5 gals of water and then having the total water needed of like 8.5 gals. In this case would I just do the mash with the 6.5 and then use the extra 2 gals to rinse the grain into the brew kettle prior to boil?

It's very common to mash with the full volume of water. There are many ways to do things when brewing. For BIAB if you have the space, you can save time and effort by doing a full volume mash.

Personally, since I don't have any suitable kettles, and I am a Batch Sparger by nature, I mash in one vessel, then drain and then dunk sparge the bag in another vessel and then combine.

It's all good, baby!

 

[UndeadFred]

If you have nothing already, get a keggle or a 15 gallon kettle for 5 gallon batches. Even if you decide to go 3V some day, that purchase will be a keeper.

I made the mistake of buying an 8 gallon kettle. I hardly ever use it anymore.

I did buy a 48qt "marine" cooler, a voile curtain and a couple of bungee cords from Wal-Mart for less than $30 and used the curtain/bungee cords as a replacement for the bulkhead and "braid" you often see used for batch sparging.

Otherwise I pretend I am Denny Conn and do that technique as prescribed. With a Corona Mill as the crush I'm always >80% conversion efficiency.

I did pick up a keg that wouldn't hold pressure and cut the top off it.. made a boil kettle out of it. My goal is to make a recirculating eBIAB out of it for winter brewing.. I don't think you could even get close to doing that with anything smaller (a keg is 15.5 gallons)... Still, if I do something really "big" like a barleywine, I'd have and use the cooler...

But I post this because the cooler is a good stopgap for those out there that have <=10 gallon pots who want to do a BIAB-ish procedure. The curtain panel rocks because, even though you get more stuck sparges, you just tug and it goes. You don't, for example, need rice hulls for anything.. meaning I might still do rye and wheat beers in the cooler regardless of the success of the eBIAB.

Fred