Hefeweisen recipe help

[Bruinpilot]

I want to do a hefeweisen, and i want to do a couple of unique things that i realize may not really be true to style, but i like these flavors and i think i will like it. However, i am still new enough to brewing (Ive got a couple years and about 20 all grain batches under my belt) to be intimidated about designing my own recipe. I would like some input, or possibly a good recipe i could modify.

I am looking to do at least 55% wheat malt with some bavarian pilsner malt, which is probably the part of the recipe of a bery normal hefeweisen.

What may not be true to style is i want to incorporate a good amount of victory malt, and some munich malt to up the bready maltyness.

I plan on using a small amount of hallertau hops and one of the wyeast hefeweisen yeasts, probably the least flocctuating and most highly flavorful i can find.

Thanks for the input!

 

[charliehorse]

I'm not seeing the problem. Work your recipe up in Brew Target (or which ever software you use), brew a batch, ferment and keg. If it tastes good, enjoy it. If it tastes bad, it's still beer.

For designing your own recipes, I would highly recommend Designing Great Beers (available at fine brew shops nationwide). 20 batches in, you should be comfortable enough in your process and equipment that you ought to be able to come up with a recipe on the fly.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

I like the use of Munich malt in my roggenbier and dunkelweizens so I don't see how it could be a bad thing in a hefeweizen.

As a side note, it pushes the flavor profile towards weizenbock so you do have a style you can call it. The style guidelines allow for pale and dark versions of weizenbock.

 

[Bruinpilot]

Thanks. I have never heard of weizenbock, but i looked it up in the style guidelines and it sounds like what i am trying to achieve is really a light weizenbock. I will search some recipes down that alley. Thanks!

 

[Bruinpilot]

How about

6lbs malted wheat
2lbs Munich
2lbs victory

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

How about

6lbs malted wheat
2lbs Munich
2lbs victory

I thought I typed out a response to this back when I first read it, but I must not have hit submit.

That would probably be a pretty good start. I unfortunately don't have any experience with victory, though from the numbers that might be extreme. But caveat to that is, its part of your goals for the beer so I wouldn't want to diminish the curiosity factor of "I wanna see what happens" (I can't help but succumb to the same curiosity when I brew my recipes, I like to see what happens, like 29oz of munich 10L in a Belgian Dark Strong Ale and it ends up turning out very enjoyable).

Definitely update the thread when you brew this and its ready for drinking, pictures would be awesome. My next beer planned and ready to roll this weekend is a Dunkelweizen/Weizenbock using a similar approach that I used for my roggenbier that placed at competition. 6lbs weyerman pale wheat/3lbs Vienna/2lbs munich 10L/8oz caramunich/1oz carafa II. If I get my usual 87% efficiency itll be a weizenbock, if I get my usual heavy wheat/rye efficiency itll be a dunkelweizen. We can compare notes and pictures.

 

[Bruinpilot]

Thanks for the encouragement. I plan on brewing this shortly after Easter. I'll take some pictures and post a follow up. Good luck with your brew!

 

[Natdavis777]

What yeast do you plan to use? 3068? If so, and you want to really showcase the estery profile, Id suggest underpitching. A starter wouldnt even be necessary.

 

[JonM]

Here's a great article from a guy who knows a thing or two. Great pointers about ester profiles and yeast health.

http://byo.com/body/item/2265-german-hefeweizen-style-profile

 

[Bruinpilot]

Thanks for the tips. I will check out the article. I will consider 3068. I need to check which yeast I used last for a heff. It fermented very vigorously at about 68 degrees, but did not impart much flavor. Maybe it was the strain, or the temperature was too cool.

 

[BrandonMH]

I have a kit I am going to make soon that they were out of 3068, so they gave me 3056. Anyone use that yeast before for a hefe? Also, they gave me a newer, german cascade version, mandivaria bavaria or something. I wanted a bit of a more traditional hefe first off, maybe I'll get some tettnang and hold those for another brew.

 

[Bruinpilot]

I used 3056 on my last heffeweisen. I did not like it much, I didn't hate it either. It is just very plain and unnoffensive either way. Made a mildly tart beer with not too many phenols. I thought the taste was too clean for a hefeweisen. If you want a cleaner beer this would be good. It really doesn't draw any attention to the yeast at all in my experience.

 

[BrandonMH]

That is what I was afraid of. I think they were either out of 3068 or didn"t carry it for some reason. I may also get some tettnang or hallertau hops for a more traditional german hefe to start with and maybe tweak one later, make a more american one with more hops. The 3056 sounds like wlp380 hefe iv ale yeast which is supposed to be minimal banana with citrus and apricot notes instead of normal hefe yeast.

 

[freisste]

Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen is amazing for hefs. Gives a fantastic flavor that I associate and will leave the beer really hazy. I can't remember my pitch rate, but I pushed toward clove because I wanted to avoid banana. IIRC, stressing leads to banana (low pitch rate from high OG or few yeast cells, or high temp fermentation) and over pitching and good/cool temp control minimizes banana to maximize clove. Just my preference, but a great (and really classic) yeast.

 

[Natdavis777]

Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen is amazing for hefs. Gives a fantastic flavor that I associate and will leave the beer really hazy. I can't remember my pitch rate, but I pushed toward clove because I wanted to avoid banana. IIRC, stressing leads to banana (low pitch rate from high OG or few yeast cells, or high temp fermentation) and over pitching and good/cool temp control minimizes banana to maximize clove. Just my preference, but a great (and really classic) yeast.

Exactly what it does. I prefer both, so I underpitch somewhat, and ferment at 65F. I love this style though weather it be all banana or all clove.

 

[BrandonMH]

By overpitching, do you mean you use a starter or two smack packs? I really enjoy weihanstephaner hefewiesbier, and is the reasoning I want to brew my own, since my family enjoys it as well. I have a few ideas bouncing around in my head for recipies.

 

[freisste]

By overpitching, do you mean you use a starter or two smack packs? I really enjoy weihanstephaner hefewiesbier, and is the reasoning I want to brew my own, since my family enjoys it as well. I have a few ideas bouncing around in my head for recipies.

That's exactly what I mean. You can use a program to determine "correct" pitch rate and then go above it (by making a larger starter or using more smack packs). If weihenstephan is what you're going for, definitely use Wyeast 3068.

 

[BrandonMH]

Do you think if I used the 3056 and kept it cooler or warmer I could make it more estery/phenolic that way, or do you think it would still be mild?

 

[Bruinpilot]

Warmer will make more phenols. However, the yeast may make unpleasant phenols if fermented outside I it's temperature range. I would go as warm as wyeast says you can. Whatever the top of the range is or even a couple of degrees warmer may not hurt, but I wouldn't go warmer. It may work, it may not. The problem is, you don't know what you will get and you may not like it, or it could be great. That's why I would stick to the recommended range.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

It seems with the 3068 in my experience the warmer it gets the more it acts like a Belgian strain. It seems almost clean by comparison to when you ferment it in the recommended ranges. It still throws of a lot of ester/phenol but it does not taste like a hefeweizen at all.

I've tried, I think, 6 different beers where it stayed above 72F for fermentation. It always comes out with a *little* bit of banana and clove, but the other stone fruit and bubblegum dominate the palate.

I'm on my 7th attempt to pull out the banana on 3068 (I like hefeweizens that are literally a bowl of bananas slapping me in the face). I've tried on all previous batches to underpitch slightly, I've attempted as low as 75% of recommended pitch rate for my gravity. This most recent attempt on a weizenbock I tried to get very close to 100% of the recommended pitch rate on a 1.071 beer at 5 gallons. I've also kept the temp between 66F and 68F, with a ferulic acid rest and a double decoction mash. By far and away this batch has had the best blend of banana and clove character you expect from 3068.

Coming from someone whose used the 3068 strain a lot, under pitching and using higher than recommended temp ranges, definitely does not seem to pull the desired banana/clove character. From memory I believe a lot of folks report 3056 gives off more bubblegum and stone fruit than it does banana. Hefeweizen, dunkeweizen, weizenbock, and roggenbiers are by far and away my top 4 favorite styles and I never get sick of that big banana slap in the face so I've spent a lot of time trying to nail these three styles.

Edit: Jamil Zainasheff also mentioned on Brewing with Style any time they come to one of the 4 major styles that utilize the German wheat strains that underpitching really won't necessarily give you the desired banana character. Sometimes you *might* get lucky and the underpitch will give you what you want, but you are just as likely to get undesired off flavors from the underpitch.

 

[BrandonMH]

Thanks for the info. I was at the local brewery, they had their hefe....honestly, it was a crime. Smooth, cloudy but no real esters/phenols. I told someone it was mild, and right away they looked at me behind the counter. I said I was used to wehanistephaner, to cover my arse, but true. I am having their new iipa right now....it is good.

 

[Natdavis777]

Ive brewed with it 4x now, and my most repeatable and desirable outcome is to make a small starter, and ferment @ 62-64F. Ive never done the fuerlic acid rest, just a simple single infusion at 151-152F. It is probably one of my fastest 10 gal kegs to blow.

If it helps, make a 5 gal batch, and split it between 5 single gallon jugs and play with pitch rates and temps. Find which you prefer best.

I know mine has a somewhat lighter body than wehanistephaner, but the taste profile is similar. Its just what my palate calls for. Best of luck to getting this beer where you want it to be. Id be more than obliged to sample some for you :rockin:

 

[Bruinpilot]

What temperature did you get the most bubblegum and stone fruit from the 3068? I want to try to emphasize that with a hint of banana in my next brew.

 

[Natdavis777]

I get a good balance between each. I'd assume more banana from a lower pitch or a higher fern temp. Or combo of the two

 

[Bruinpilot]

Well. I brewed it up. I was going to post some pictures, but it appears that I can't from my phone. Looks like you have to upload them somewhere first and then post the address. Too much work for the computer illiterate beer drinker. Anyways it went fairly well, excepting I broke my thermometer and missed my target gravity by the largest margin that I ever have missed it by. Anyway the wort tasted good and was a pleasant Carmel color. We'll see how it is in a couple of weeks...

 

[BrandonMH]

Sorry to hear about the broken thermo, sounds like it may turn out well. And if it tasted good to you...that is really all that matters. Time will tell after fermentation.

 

[BrandonMH]

A quick question, anyone ever try lemon drop hops in their hefe? I have been here at work thinking of recipes and things to try in various styles.

 

[m00ps]

A quick question, anyone ever try lemon drop hops in their hefe? I have been here at work thinking of recipes and things to try in various styles.

Yes, wouldnt really recommend it. If you add enough to discern the hops used, you also get some herbal flavors that didnt seem to work well in hefes

 

[BrandonMH]

I listened to an archived brewing with style in the brewing network for German wise and Jamil said he ferments his hefe's at 62 deg. My basement temp lately had been around 66-68 ish, and I know the fermentation will raise the temp a fee degrees. I may have to do the wet towel thing since I do not have a chest freezer empty.

 

[dk21]

I've never worked with victory malt but I recently made a hefe with some aromatic malt and white labs 380,fermented pretty cool (about 62) and many people (brewers and people who don't know much about beer) have really liked it. The only way to know for sure is to brew it!

 

[dk21]

I listened to an archived brewing with style in the brewing network for German wise and Jamil said he ferments his hefe's at 62 deg. My basement temp lately had been around 66-68 ish, and I know the fermentation will raise the temp a fee degrees. I may have to do the wet towel thing since I do not have a chest freezer empty.

In my experience, Jamil is right on. Pitching the proper amount of yeast and fermenting cool makes a fantastic hefe!

 

[cxvgjcgyj]

I like the use of Munich malt in my roggenbier and dunkelweizens so I don't see how it could be a bad thing in a hefeweizen.