Heady Topper

Yakima 728
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theveganbrewer said:
HT bitters with extract.
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That wouldn't surprise me. If I were a betting man, I'd guess that they're using a blend of CO2 hop extract and something clean, but high alpha (ie Warrior) for their bittering.

I personally dig Columbus as a 60/90 min bittering hop, but it's pretty aggressive on the tongue and can really linger (I believe this is due to high cohumulone). I don't get that from Heady.
 
pjdunn11 said:
That wouldn't surprise me. If I were a betting man, I'd guess that they're using a blend of CO2 hop extract and something clean, but high alpha (ie Warrior) for their bittering.

I personally dig Columbus as a 60/90 min bittering hop, but it's pretty aggressive on the tongue and can really linger (I believe this is due to high cohumulone). I don't get that from Heady.
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I'm not just guessing, the owner told me he only bitters with co2 hop extract and then all the other hops are put in 5 minutes or less. Not sure why some are still debating.
 
not sure if this has been posted here yet:

"CULTURING CONAN, AKA THE ALCHEMIST'S HEADY TOPPER YEAST"
http://www.bear-flavored.com/2012/09/culturing-conan-aka-alchemists-heady.html

quote: "Kimmich is spot on in his description of Conan: it is possibly the most aromatic, fruity, pleasant yeast strain I've encountered (outside of Brett and such.) Granted, I have limited experience with Conan as of this writing. You can read the full write-up of my IPA here, but in short, I can pick out a strong component of Heady Topper in my own beer, despite the fact that the two probably don't use any of the same hop varieties. That peach / apricot character he describes translates into a gently-fruity aroma, and really adds extra punch to the tropical fruit character of certain hops. I believe it also makes for a smoother, richer hop flavor."

according to the author, you really need to use Conan if you're going to clone HT.

theveganbrewer said:
Not sure why some are still debating.
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probably because folks haven't read all 29 pages of this thread before chiming in... not sure we can expect them to, either.
 
sweetcell said:
not sure if this has been posted here yet:

"CULTURING CONAN, AKA THE ALCHEMIST'S HEADY TOPPER YEAST"
http://www.bear-flavored.com/2012/09/culturing-conan-aka-alchemists-heady.html

according to the author, you really need to use Conan if you're going to clone HT.

probably because folks haven't read all 29 pages of this thread before chiming in... not sure we can expect them to, either.
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Hey, that's me! :mug:

But yeah, the more I brew with Conan, the more convinced I am that it is absolutely key. Conan is a great all-around yeast, but in IPAs, it's insane. It's seems to accent hop fruitiness like nothing else I've seen.

In fact! Tonight I just opened the first bottle of my second IPA brewed with Conan. I don't think I've ever been happier with the first impression of a new batch; it completely turned around an otherwise ****ty day. It's a SMASH: Belma hops and Canada Malting pale ale malt only. If you've read the thread on Belma hops, you'll see that most people are saying they're pretty mild and slightly underwhelming; they're recommending them for saisons and such.

So, having been following that thread for a while, I was expecting this IPA to be pretty mellow and unexceptional. But holy s*** was I wrong — Conan seems to have latched onto all the fruity notes from Belma and brought them to the forefront. The aroma and flavor is a blast of strawberries (which was part of the description for the hop), seriously like no other beer I've ever smelled in my life. If I were drinking this at the bar, I would guess it was a Strawberry IPA. There's some melon and peachiness, and I can easily pick out some of the character from my first Conan-fermented IPA, as well as Heady Topper. I'm going to have a hard time not drinking this entire batch in, like, five days. It's one of the most intensely fruity IPAs I've ever had, homebrewed or not. And I'm pretty sure Conan can take a lot of the credit.

Anyway. I am slightly buzzed now, as I have not had dinner. I'll have a blog entry about that beer soon, and for anyone following my blog entry about Conan, I'm going to keep updating it as I ferment more batches with the yeast.

TL;DR: Conan is an amazing yeast for any IPA, probably most other styles, and I highly doubt you could come close to cloning Heady Topper without it.
 
othellomcbane said:
Hey, that's me! :mug:

But yeah, the more I brew with Conan, the more convinced I am that it is absolutely key. Conan is a great all-around yeast, but in IPAs, it's insane. It's seems to accent hop fruitiness like nothing else I've seen.

In fact! Tonight I just opened the first bottle of my second IPA brewed with Conan. I don't think I've ever been happier with the first impression of a new batch; it completely turned around an otherwise ****ty day. It's a SMASH: Belma hops and Canada Malting pale ale malt only. If you've read the thread on Belma hops, you'll see that most people are saying they're pretty mild and slightly underwhelming; they're recommending them for saisons and such.

So, having been following that thread for a while, I was expecting this IPA to be pretty mellow and unexceptional. But holy s*** was I wrong — Conan seems to have latched onto all the fruity notes from Belma and brought them to the forefront. The aroma and flavor is a blast of strawberries (which was part of the description for the hop), seriously like no other beer I've ever smelled in my life. If I were drinking this at the bar, I would guess it was a Strawberry IPA. There's some melon and peachiness, and I can easily pick out some of the character from my first Conan-fermented IPA, as well as Heady Topper. I'm going to have a hard time not drinking this entire batch in, like, five days. It's one of the most intensely fruity IPAs I've ever had, homebrewed or not. And I'm pretty sure Conan can take a lot of the credit.

Anyway. I am slightly buzzed now, as I have not had dinner. I'll have a blog entry about that beer soon, and for anyone following my blog entry about Conan, I'm going to keep updating it as I ferment more batches with the yeast.

TL;DR: Conan is an amazing yeast for any IPA, probably most other styles, and I highly doubt you could come close to cloning Heady Topper without it.
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Good info right there!:mug:
Thanks for posting it!
 
So I tried to propagate Conan from a can of Heady last week. I first pitched about 3 oz from the bottom of the can into a 10 oz starter. I let that go for 2 days, then pitched into a 1L starter. I did not get nearly as much yeast from this as I thought I would. Against my better judgement I still pitched this to a 3 gallon (1.063 OG) IPA. To make matters worse I left the carboy in my basement which was probably in the mid 50s, and I had no activity after 2 days. I then moved the carboy upstairs and put it in a closet and held the temperature at 72 until I started to see activity and then dropped the temp to 66 in the closet. The beer looked like it was fermenting (krausen on beer), but I went to take a gravity reading today and it smells and tastes like band aids (very potent). I am thinking that has to do with me underpitching, and I probably ruined this batch. My main question is can I at least save this yeast cake so I can use Conan in my next batch??

Thanks.
 
jcojr72 said:
So I tried to propagate Conan from a can of Heady last week. I first pitched about 3 oz from the bottom of the can into a 10 oz starter. I let that go for 2 days, then pitched into a 1L starter. I did not get nearly as much yeast from this as I thought I would. Against my better judgement I still pitched this to a 3 gallon (1.063 OG) IPA. To make matters worse I left the carboy in my basement which was probably in the mid 50s, and I had no activity after 2 days. I then moved the carboy upstairs and put it in a closet and held the temperature at 72 until I started to see activity and then dropped the temp to 66 in the closet. The beer looked like it was fermenting (krausen on beer), but I went to take a gravity reading today and it smells and tastes like band aids (very potent). I am thinking that has to do with me underpitching, and I probably ruined this batch. My main question is can I at least save this yeast cake so I can use Conan in my next batch??

Thanks.
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I would say let this batch ride for a while, and hopefully the yeast will clean up the off taste a little bit.
Next time you harvest, step up the starter at least 3 times. Take the 1L that you did, chill, decant, and do another 1L. When you pitch, leave a little in the bottom of the starter flask and do the whole process over again. That way you'll have another good amount of yeast for your next batch.
 
I read somewhere that Hop Stoopid by Lagunitas used hop extract, so I went to pick up a bottle to see if I got any reminders of HT. Sure enough, it tastes very similar to HT, taking into account for Conan yeast and some dry hop differentiations. There is a very unique taste and aroma found in Hop Stoopid and Heady Topper, both are the extract I think.

Lagunitas uses 90 minute boil and 11lbs of hop extract + a mixture of Summit/Nugget/Apollo/Bravo/Columbus/Tomahawk/Zeus pellets at a rate of 8.6 pounds per 85BBLS. If you have had both of the beers, do you agree that a strong flavor and aroma from HT is evident in Hop Stoopid?

BTW, I am getting my hop shot from yakimavalleyhops, in fact, they are today until Friday the 7th at 11:59pm, offering a free 3ml hop shot with your order. I think HT will require somewhere between 6 and 10mL of hopshot, but haven't got to calculating yet.


Also, HopStoopid is dryhopped with Columbus, Simcoe, and Chinook.
 
theveganbrewer said:
Lagunitas uses 90 minute boil and 11lbs of hop extract + a mixture of Summit/Nugget/Apollo/Bravo/Columbus/Tomahawk/Zeus pellets at a rate of 8.6 pounds per 85BBLS.
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Man, that's only .05 of an ounce of hops per gallon past the extract. Where did you get these figures, out of curiosity? And for what it's worth, I really don't find any similarities between HT and HS, but that's just my opinion.
 
bottlebomber said:
Man, that's only .05 of an ounce of hops per gallon past the extract. Where did you get these figures, out of curiosity? And for what it's worth, I really don't find any similarities between HT and HS, but that's just my opinion.
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I am getting an overwhelming similarity here. Granted, my last can of HT was 2 months old. I do get the same taste, without all the hop aromas, between Hop stoopid and HT fresh. I have had hundreds of beers but as soon as I cracked Hop Stoopid, I went straight back to Heady Topper in my mind. There is something very similar with these two beers. Fresh, HT blows it away, but at 2 months old, they are showing similarities.

As for the lagunitus recipe, they posted it a while back in a competition for homebrewers to re-create their recipe, that came straight from the brewery.
 
jcojr72 said:
The beer looked like it was fermenting (krausen on beer), but I went to take a gravity reading today and it smells and tastes like band aids (very potent). I am thinking that has to do with me underpitching, and I probably ruined this batch. My main question is can I at least save this yeast cake so I can use Conan in my next batch??
Click to expand...

It sounds like you did under-pitch and an infection took hold. It is doubtful that time will heal this, and I certainly would NOT use the yeast cake again unless you feel like wasting more time and money. I would start over with a new can of HT and step it up properly.
 
g-star said:
It sounds like you did under-pitch and an infection took hold. It is doubtful that time will heal this, and I certainly would NOT use the yeast cake again unless you feel like wasting more time and money. I would start over with a new can of HT and step it up properly.
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+1. sounds like an infection, and that infection will be in whatever "yeast cake" (or "bacteria cake") forms in there.

if the beer turns out ok, then you can re-use the yeast. if the beer continues to smell and taste of band-aids (a tell-tale sign of a bacterial infection, fyi) then you need to start over. be sure to sanitize everything that came in contact with the infected beer. if you use plastic fermenters, at a minimum i would bleach-bomb the bucket and i might even consider replacing it if it's got any scratches inside it.
 
sweetcell said:
+1. sounds like an infection, and that infection will be in whatever "yeast cake" (or "bacteria cake") forms in there.

if the beer turns out ok, then you can re-use the yeast. if the beer continues to smell and taste of band-aids (a tell-tale sign of a bacterial infection, fyi) then you need to start over. be sure to sanitize everything that came in contact with the infected beer. if you use plastic fermenters, at a minimum i would bleach-bomb the bucket and i might even consider replacing it if it's got any scratches inside it.
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I'm not sure I'd go the infection route right away. "band aid" is usually caused by phenols which can be caused by chlorine or chloramine in the water. They also occur early in the fermentation process, so the yeast can clean them up given enough time.
 
I might be brewing tomorrow, if not, then Thursday, just waiting on my Yakima extract to arrive.
 
whitehause said:
Did you get their HopShot ?
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I ordered 16mL of hopshot from Yakimavalleyhops.com (i think that was the name). NB was out and hasn't had it in stock for about a month. I didn't get the package today, hope it arrives tomorrow. I expect to base my hopshot usage on HopStoopid, which has 5.5mL per 5 gallons. That will give about 55IBU for a 60 minute boil in the 1.070 wort. I'm debating two bittering strategies.

55 IBU Hopshot, 25 IBU 5 minute additions, 40 IBU whirlpool addition
65 IBU Hopshot 25 IBU 5 minute additions, 30 IBU whirlpool

Here's their link:

http://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/product_p/hopshot10ml.htm

They also have a 3ml shot available.
 
We've got 3 guys/gals going after this clone this week. Take good notes everyone and updates in the thread along the way.
 
LaFinDuMonde said:
Wednesday perhaps? :D
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I sure hope so!! I'm hoping DR can make it over tomorrow, but this weekend will suffice too. I got 2 cans in a trade on Monday, I was told they had a bit of time on them so I'm waiting for the fresher to arrive. Thanks again, BTW. Enjoy the Abrasive!

Until then.....

HPIM1589.jpg

Despite being "older" (don't know when canned), there's still a $hit ton of hops character. The nice thing is, with the mellower hops, I can still get the pronounced fruitiness from Conan. And it's still better and hoppier than most anything out there. Magical ale!! :mug:
 
I'd be interested in your opinion of an older HT and a Hopstoopid if you can find one an do a side by side.
 
PM me if you have cultured Conan you want to trade for funk. Sounds very similar to some brett strains in the primary, no?
 
NordeastBrewer77 said:
Hop Stoopid's a regular in my fridge, I will pick a bottle up today when I go to the store. I have one more can of the older. After drinking that one last night, I can see why there's an interest in comparing.
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They both use hop extract and use at least 3 of the same hops, I think. That's one part, using HS to see if there is any Chinook in HT. THe other is that I think HS shares some base similarities with HT and I'm interested in gauging the difference in bitterness level between the two so I can get the right amount of hop extract in, since we know for sure how much HS uses.
 
TNGabe said:
PM me if you have cultured Conan you want to trade for funk. Sounds very similar to some brett strains in the primary, no?
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What funk do you have? I am gonna harvest a bunch of Conan soon.
 
theveganbrewer said:
They both use hop extract and use at least 3 of the same hops, I think. That's one part, using HS to see if there is any Chinook in HT. THe other is that I think HS shares some base similarities with HT and I'm interested in gauging the difference in bitterness level between the two so I can get the right amount of hop extract in, since we know for sure how much HS uses.
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That's what I was thinkin'!! But..... I completely flaked grabbing a bottle of HS while I was shopping today. I was getting stuff for a couple trades, plus Surly Smoke hit stores today so a third mission was just too much for my simple mind to process. I'll keep that older can of Heady and get a bottle of HS to do a side by side later this week.

@LaFinDuMonde, thanks again for the hook-up on Heady!! You've made a few people very happy campers. :mug:
 
Something very disturbing about seeing those cans crushed in such a violent manner. Hope the yeast harvest is bountiful. Are you going straight from that starter to the beer, or are you going to farm the yeast out a bit and make more?



This is my 2nd of 4 mason jars I'm stepping up and freezing. Keeping it warm with my ferment chamber heater.
 
I read some of this thread last night before bed and, no lie, I dreamt I travelled a few hundred miles just to find it. And I drank it. And it was delicious.
Seriously I dreamt of heady topper.
 
NuclearRich said:
I read some of this thread last night before bed and, no lie, I dreamt I travelled a few hundred miles just to find it. And I drank it. And it was delicious.
Seriously I dreamt of heady topper.
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Heady sounds pretty good, but I'm more excited about getting some Conan. This yeast sounds pretty freaking amazing.
 
Here's the blog entry / tasting notes / analysis of my Belma single hop IPA fermented with Conan.

It's the second IPA I've brewed with Conan now, and the character is unmistakable. It really, really pushes out whatever fruit character the hops already contain. It also seems to adapt to whatever that character is, rather than just pushing out a singular flavor (although Conan definitely has a soft-peach flavor of its own). My Belma IPA tastes insanely like strawberry, which I've never gotten in another beer before. From what other people are saying about the hop, I'm fairly sure it wouldn't taste nearly so strawberry-intense without Conan backing it up.

The second best thing about Conan — maybe even tied for best thing — is its attenuation and the mouthfeel it creates. Despite averaging 80 - 82% attenuation, I'm noticing this consistently creamy, rich mouthfeel in all my Conan beers (and in Heady Topper), no matter how dry they end up and no matter how simple the grainbill. It really is the perfect yeast for brewing IPAs... and probably great for other styles too.
 
theveganbrewer said:
Something very disturbing about seeing those cans crushed in such a violent manner. Hope the yeast harvest is bountiful. Are you going straight from that starter to the beer, or are you going to farm the yeast out a bit and make more?
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Yeah, ya like the graveyard? We were so excited that the first can we each poured into the wort was crushed like tiny bug. I'm going to build this up to split with DangerRoss and another member. I then plan to farm my share so I have a few jars on hand. Those jars will be used for brewing starters and future farming.
 
Have all the equipment coming from cynmar to harvest some Conan. Will pick up some fresh Heady as soon as I get it. Only ~20 min drive to the brewery, can't wait to brew with it. Happy to see all the success using it.
 
snail said:
Have all the equipment coming from cynmar to harvest some Conan. Will pick up some fresh Heady as soon as I get it. Only ~20 min drive to the brewery, can't wait to brew with it. Happy to see all the success using it.
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Sweet. While you're up there, wanna grab me and Danger a case? :ban:


I kid, of course, but only partially. If you're ever wanting to trade Heady for some MN beers, hit me up.
 
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