It has come up. I think the consensus was that their recipe was no where close to being anything like heady. If I remember correctly.
Heady Topper- Can you clone it?
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It has come up. I think the consensus was that their recipe was no where close to being anything like heady. If I remember correctly.
threephase
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Do not buy this thinking it will be a clone of heady. I brewed it myself any it was nowhere close. Your best bet is to do the brew your own clone recipe that has been mentioned around here. Late hopping and using hop extract for bittering I believe are the key aspects of getting this clone to be close.
Thanks for the heads up! Will have to try the recipe posted here.
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Mine is bubbling away. I brewed this past Tuesday, and started fermentation at 68º for first two days. I added a bit corn sugar to primary on day two to make up a couple points I missed in my mash (I think my pH was too low for some strange reason). I evicted the conical from the temp controlled freezer to my basement with t-stat at 68, but seems closer to 72. I put another beer into the temp controlled freezer that day. Is there a recommended course of dry hopping, racking, or adding any polyclar?
Thanks!
TD
Thanks!
TD
I think I'm going to just follow the schedule given in BYO.
I've never used Polyclar 10 before. Are there any reasons that I might NOT want to use it?
Do we know if post fermentation finings are used by the original brewery?
Any instructions on using Polyclar? The suff I have is called polyclar 10 and it says that filtration will be required? Isn't that the point of using it, to avoid filtration?
Any specific advise on polyclar 10 appreciated.
Thanks
TD
I've never used Polyclar 10 before. Are there any reasons that I might NOT want to use it?
Do we know if post fermentation finings are used by the original brewery?
Any instructions on using Polyclar? The suff I have is called polyclar 10 and it says that filtration will be required? Isn't that the point of using it, to avoid filtration?
Any specific advise on polyclar 10 appreciated.
Thanks
TD
The real thing is cloudy as all get-out when it's fresh. I suspect they don't use any finings and certainly no filtration. I didn't fine or filter, and it was very good. Lots of floaties due to the massive amounts of dry hop, but that just added to the experience IMO.
Calichusetts
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Not filtered. Though John said a majority of the haze is actually from the pearl malt.
That is the real deal, it is Conan.
I undershot my target OG. I hit 1.070 I estimate I'm between 1.070-1.072 with sugar additions to the primary.
Measured the OG today, one week after pitching and I get 1.011
Whats the target FG on this? It tasted really good, but htere were no dry hops yet, it was ferm temps and no carbonation.
TD
Measured the OG today, one week after pitching and I get 1.011
Whats the target FG on this? It tasted really good, but htere were no dry hops yet, it was ferm temps and no carbonation.
TD
I can see this. I kegged 6 days ago and my pours are really cloudy/hazy. I dry hopped in the keg with pellets in a muslin bag I and did no shaking to carb at all. I see no hop particles other than what's normally there in the first few pours. This beer is much more cloudy than any other beer I've brewed. I have never used Pearl before, but I have never used Conan before, either.
SavoryChef
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Mine crapped out at 1.015 on first gen Vermont yeast
Mine crapped out at 1.014 with first generation Vermont Ale from the Yeast Bay. I fermented a little low but ramped up to their recommended temp of 72 degrees near the end of fermentation.
crapped out? 1.014 is the target... see recipe, page 1 and https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/heady-topper-can-you-clone-390082/index30.html#post4944666
1.011 FG is perfect. I hit 1.005 and 1.008 on my first two attempts. My last Heady clone I hit 1.073 OG and didn't add sugar. It finished at 1.011 and was the best one yet. After listening to the youtube with John, I'm going to add some gypsum and acidulated malt to get my minerals and my pH right, and I'm only going to dry hop for 4-5 days. We'll see how my next attempt turns out.
I doubt it's the Pearl. Conan is super cloudy. When I was using it I would hit every batch with gelatin, and I rarely use post boil finings.
My yeast was from Gigayeast. I pitched 4 packs which were a month old. No starter. According to yeastcalc.co, this should be correct pitch rate. Mine was super cloudy, couldn't see through the hydro flask. But it's not been cold crashed which I assume is also recommended. I'm going to save that until after the dry hop additions are done. The hydro sample was tasty, not as bitter as I expected, but probably my boil wasn't as strong as it should've been. Going to add the first dry hops as soon as I get my. Columbus hops in the mail. I goofed up on inventory records for hops!
I had a mix-up in my water somehow. I think I screwed up the bru'n water spreadsheet data entry. My mash pH was too low (5.08). I have been using this for a while and it's been within 0.1 of actual pH except for this time.
TD
Anyway, seems I'm a few more week from enjoying this
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Calichusetts
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[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdfySDN2mF0[/ame]
John claims many homebrewers have trouble getting conan to drop out but it will "if you treat it right." He does say that in the end, the pearl and hops cause the haze.
Yes but he never says how to treat it right.
Feeling very melancholic after watching the whole thing. Would love to open my own brewpub. Think I'd be happier going to work. As John said though, why would I want to screw up a kick a$$ hobby.
I wonder their proprietary hopping methods are. I ended up adding half my zero minute hops at the 170° mark. Interesting what he said about not using pumps. I forget, did he say no mechanical impeller pumps after the ( late) hops are dropped (I think that means added). So I wonder how he pulls off a whirlpool without a pump. Hand stir? Paddles?
thanks for the post.
TD
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Feeling very melancholic after watching the whole thing. Would love to open my own brewpub. Think I'd be happier going to work. As John said though, why would I want to screw up a kick a$$ hobby.
I wonder their proprietary hopping methods are. I ended up adding half my zero minute hops at the 170° mark. Interesting what he said about not using pumps. I forget, did he say no mechanical impeller pumps after the ( late) hops are dropped (I think that means added). So I wonder how he pulls off a whirlpool without a pump. Hand stir? Paddles?
thanks for the post.
TD
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I pitch at 1.0 for any beer over 1.060 OG, yeastcalc may default at 0.75. I also check my yeast by volume (assume 4 billion cells/ml of tightly packed yeast).
John said it's more forgiving going a little under (I assume this is a hot measurement, but if it's at room temp you're significantly under.)
Cold-crashing works fine for me.
Thanks. I think that I did use the 1.0 not the 0.75
Cold crash. Thanks!
TD
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Calichusetts
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I as well. I'm guessing their techniques are part of the amazing results we love and probably why we can only come close...at best
At this point I'm thinking that after they add the flame out hops, they cool quickly to their desired whirlpool temperature, add the whirlpool hops for a particular amount of time, and cool quickly to pitching temps, so in my mind the question is what is the whirlpool temperature and how long do they keep it there.
John also mentioned how they don't use ridiculous amounts of dry hops. The 11 oz of dry hops for this clone is pretty ridiculous, so I'm wondering if it is overkill. The Pliny the Elder clone uses about 30-40% of that.
John also mentioned how they don't use ridiculous amounts of dry hops. The 11 oz of dry hops for this clone is pretty ridiculous, so I'm wondering if it is overkill. The Pliny the Elder clone uses about 30-40% of that.
Yeah, I've seen the video... Great info for sure. That said, he's using a yeast that is a notorious low flocculator, and attributing the cloudiness to the grain? Hops I understand, but I don't get how the pearl could cause that much cloudiness. I've had wheat beers come out super clear with cold crashing, a solid hot/cold break, and the right yeast. But, throw some conan, hops, and 2row together and you get a pretty hazy beer. Also, how does he explain the massive amount of yeast sediment that makes heady cans so uniquely desirable for harvesting? I could be wrong, I just am not clear why pearl would be that different from other types of malted barley.
Keep in mind that it wouldn't be the first time he's used 'strategic redirection'
CarbonTom
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Did you keg hop instead of dry hopping in the fermenter? I only have carboys and, I was thinking about doing this instead of in the primary since my volume was low and I dont want to lose any more avoiding traub loss. Also I assume it would be easier and also keep it hoppier longer.
Yes, I did both dry hop doses in the keg because I never would have been able to get them out of my fermenters (carboys). I only left them in for 5 days based on Kimmich's comments in that video posted earlier (For Heady, he never dry hops less than 4 days and never more than 5). If you remove them, I don't think keg hopping would necessarily keep it hoppier longer.
I guess it depends on how you look at it. From the recipe on pg 1, the estimated FG is 1.014, but the measured FG was 1.010.
irishrover32
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Sorry to butt in here first time posting in this fantastic thread but I'm wondering could anyone recommend substitutions for the hopshot and Conan yeast and would the resulting beer be anythin like heady I'm from Ireland so it's impossible for me to get a can or Conan yeast/ hop shot but I really wanna try this so can anyone help? How would us-05 be I know the Conan is a massive contributor so I'm not expecting much.
Coff
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This is Conan, not sure if they ship internationally but Nick is a pretty great guy so I am sure he would work with you. You really need Conan for this clone to be close.
http://www.theyeastbay.com/brewers-yeast-products/vermont-ale
If you cant get hop extract you can easily get away with any "clean" bittering hop. I used Warrior and Magnum way back on the first page when I was involved in trying to clean this beer. All the hop shot is giving you is clean bittering without the hop debris, youll be fine flavor wise without the hop extract but not as close without Conan.
irishrover32
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Thanks for that I might give him a shout and see can we work something out.
telejunkie
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Nottingham is a great sub, us05 works as well. I've used both with success and both did very well compared to the original in blind tastings with Heady Topper fans. I disagree as do everyone that has tried my clones about the "need" to use conan to get close.
Coff
Well-Known Member
I dont doubt that your clones have been super good, have you done it side by side with Conan? Ive done split batches of beers with 001/US05 vs Conan and the difference is pretty dramatic for me. I think you can brew a superb hoppy beer with these other strains but I do think it will be different. Even if only slightly.
The peach notes from Conan are unique but its also a strain that appears to leave a beer with unique body that I dont get from 001/US05 etc. But that may just be my taste.
The peach notes from Conan are unique but its also a strain that appears to leave a beer with unique body that I dont get from 001/US05 etc. But that may just be my taste.
telejunkie
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just wanted to point out to the irishrover that you can get most of the way there without conan. Not saying don't use it if you can, just that nottingham does a good job when compared to conan. I've only done us05 vs nottingham vs actually Heady. Nottingham did a better job...us05 was still pretty good compared to the original though.
My 2nd or 3rd revised recipe is here from back in fall 2012:
http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/2808-hop-stands
The only change i made the last time I brewed it was to swap apollo for citra in the dry hop and use nottingham. You can definitely pick out my clone compared to the original in a triangle test, but I haven't had a hb'ed clone yet that could pass a triangle.
Conan is a fun yeast...I need to start playing with it some more.
irishrover32
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Thanks for all the help lads, I think I'll give it a got maybe with Nottingham I did have a chat with my local club and turns out a few lads have Conan so I might be getting a slant but I hear it's tricky to use. Wat about S-04 would that help with mouth feel not my favourite yeast nbut just a suggestion.
I've done this clone 3 times without hop shot, actually using CTZ and Apollo (more aggressive hops) for bittering. I don't think it made such a difference, but I am going to do this clone again and use hop shot to see what I think. I've also done a head to head with Conan and WLP090 (San Diego Super yeast which is similar to WLP001/US-05, but supposedly attenuates better and faster). There was a bit of difference, and my Conan strain finished 3 points lower as well, but it still had the Heady hop flavor. I really think the flavor is more about the hops (especially the dry hops), and I subbed Citra and El Dorado for Amarillo (Citra and El Dorado are some of my favorite hops, and I think Amarillo is over-rated). The recipe calls for an absolute boat-load of Simcoe, nor is it going light on the CTZ and Centennial, and I do think the slight amount of Apollo in the mix makes a difference (it is a powerful hop and when I used it by itself as a dry hop it was horrible.) Like I said I'm going to do this again, especially after listening to the youtube with John where he stresses mash pH (adding gypsum to my mash water) and the 4-5 day dry hop periods. Maybe I'll do a split batch with the hop shot to see what difference it makes, but the Conan strain I have is just phenominal and it does make a difference. If anybody really wants to see what a difference it makes, save the starter beer and compare it to the starter beer of a different yeast. People think I put lemon in my Conan starter beers.
KindofBlues71
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Has anyone tried doing a taste comparison between the different sources of Conan? I'm in CT and don't have close access to Heady, otherwise I'd love to do this. The sources I know about are:
East Coast Yeast
GigaYeast
Yeast Bay
Heady Topper dregs
I've read here on HBT that ECY, GigaYeast and Heady dregs are all different, and even dregs from different years are different. Does anyone have any info or thoughts on this?
Regarding hops, in the video, Kimmich says there aren't as much hops as we think in Heady. Is that because of the hop extract, or is it possible that we have the aroma additions wrong?
East Coast Yeast
GigaYeast
Yeast Bay
Heady Topper dregs
I've read here on HBT that ECY, GigaYeast and Heady dregs are all different, and even dregs from different years are different. Does anyone have any info or thoughts on this?
Regarding hops, in the video, Kimmich says there aren't as much hops as we think in Heady. Is that because of the hop extract, or is it possible that we have the aroma additions wrong?
Calichusetts
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He is clearly saying the amount of hops he sees in clones are way overboard. But we don't have the systems and techniques of his brewery so while it may be too much, it could be a way to compensate for our inadequate homebrew system
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