Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
Duplicate (odd - message disappeared but came back later).
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Heady Topper- Can you clone it?
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Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
Not quite, since there is a difference. The term "replicate" is not correct either, as I discovered when I looked up the exact meaning. "Copy" is close since some definitions say: "a thing made to be similar or identical to another"."Distinction without a difference"?
Cheers!
Perhaps "similitude" would be a better term
That made my brain hurt 
I suspect the prevailing paradigm will persist...
Cheers!
I suspect the prevailing paradigm will persist...
Cheers!
i don't get the impression they're "blending" HT in the same way Cantillon blends a gueuze. i suspect they are brewing, say, four 30 barrel batches, blending them all in a 120 barrel mixing tank, then canning that. HT is blended, but it's not blended... when you mix identical batches at 100%, i would use the term "mixed" or "homogenized".
so i don't think it's the "blending" that puts HT out of reach of homebrewers...
Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
I agree, it's not the same as say, with Rodenbach, where they might blend batches from different years, each of which adds a certain chosen characteristic to the final "vintage" result.
Perhaps what HT is doing is fermenting different generations of the yeast in different tanks. In other words, the first generation of the yeast is apparently known to be not as consistent as the second, third, and up to tenth generation (apparently they throw the yeast out after ten generations). Thus, they might, for example, mix a tank with the first generation yeast along with other tanks of later generations in order to blend the first generation batch for overall consistency.
Here is the recipe. It is very very close to Heady Topper. Make sure you use Thomas Fawcett malts and Conan yeast.
Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I remember seeing it. I like the grain bill, but you only went with 4 different hops rather than 6? And you included hops in the boil (in addition to the main bittering hop)? Why the changes, and how does it compare with the results from Bobbrews's recipe?
Also,
1. do you happen to have the target water profile you used?
2. what was your fermentation/dry-hopping schedule?
Thanks.
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Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
After having read all of the messages in this thread, there seems to be a general consensus that:
1. It takes 28 days for HT to go from grain to can;
2. HT is cold-conditioned for 14 days;
3. Canning takes place on the last day of cold-conditioning and takes about a day;
4. Dry-hopping is likely done in one stage and takes 3-4 days.
Working backwards, if cold-conditioning is 14 days and dry-hopping is, say 4 days, that leaves 10 days for fermentation.
I'm currently brewing a HT version. This is what I plan to do:
1. Ferment in a 26 liter carboy at about 63F for about 5 days when most of the fermentation has completed;
2. Raise the temperature to about 68-70 F, and let it sit another 5 days for the yeast to clean up;
3. Ten days after brewing, rack the beer to a smaller 23 liter wide-mouthed carboy (after dumping some CO2 in the carboy);
4. Add all the dry hops to a nylon bag and let it float in the carboy;
5. Let it dry-hop for about 4 days;
6. After the 4 days, remove the hop bag and cold crash to about 50 F.
7. Once the beer is clear, after 3 or 4 days, siphon to a keg, and let it cold condition for the rest of the 14 day period.
The reason I'm not dry hopping in the fermenter is that I want to reduce the amount of trub, and would therefore rather add the hops in a nylon bag. The small neck of the glass carboy doesn't allow me to push the bag through, thus the use of the wide-mouthed fermenter.
Does anyone see any problem using this approach?
1. It takes 28 days for HT to go from grain to can;
2. HT is cold-conditioned for 14 days;
3. Canning takes place on the last day of cold-conditioning and takes about a day;
4. Dry-hopping is likely done in one stage and takes 3-4 days.
Working backwards, if cold-conditioning is 14 days and dry-hopping is, say 4 days, that leaves 10 days for fermentation.
I'm currently brewing a HT version. This is what I plan to do:
1. Ferment in a 26 liter carboy at about 63F for about 5 days when most of the fermentation has completed;
2. Raise the temperature to about 68-70 F, and let it sit another 5 days for the yeast to clean up;
3. Ten days after brewing, rack the beer to a smaller 23 liter wide-mouthed carboy (after dumping some CO2 in the carboy);
4. Add all the dry hops to a nylon bag and let it float in the carboy;
5. Let it dry-hop for about 4 days;
6. After the 4 days, remove the hop bag and cold crash to about 50 F.
7. Once the beer is clear, after 3 or 4 days, siphon to a keg, and let it cold condition for the rest of the 14 day period.
The reason I'm not dry hopping in the fermenter is that I want to reduce the amount of trub, and would therefore rather add the hops in a nylon bag. The small neck of the glass carboy doesn't allow me to push the bag through, thus the use of the wide-mouthed fermenter.
Does anyone see any problem using this approach?
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Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
I've tried dry-hopping in a keg, but the disadvantages include:
1. it leaves a lot of trub in the bottom which can get stuck in the dip tube;
2. it requires transferring from that keg to an empty one, meaning more work in cleaning and sterilizing the extra keg, and hose;
3. the trub means a loss in the final amount of beer.
In order to increase the effectiveness of using a bag in the carboy, I'm using a very large bag (14.5" x 8").
Again, I agree with your assessment to the cons of dry hop kegging.
In regards to point 1- you're right. It's part of the game. Trub loss.
In regards to 2, I've added a long 300 micron filter around my dip tube and it has halted dip tube clogging. Nothing is worse than clogged dip tubes. We all have been there and it's devastating to say the least.
But when brewing these styles of IPA, the keg allows you to keep oxygen out, almost completely. It is worth the smaller trub loss. I fill my dry hop keg until it's spurting out of the pressure release valve. So the amount of beer that I get into the serving keg is almost optimal- definitely over 5 gallons.
I do like your method of a large bag. But with larger _____ that you're sticking into your fermented beer, the larger the surface area to drag in oxygen which kills these styles.
In regards to point 1- you're right. It's part of the game. Trub loss.
In regards to 2, I've added a long 300 micron filter around my dip tube and it has halted dip tube clogging. Nothing is worse than clogged dip tubes. We all have been there and it's devastating to say the least.
But when brewing these styles of IPA, the keg allows you to keep oxygen out, almost completely. It is worth the smaller trub loss. I fill my dry hop keg until it's spurting out of the pressure release valve. So the amount of beer that I get into the serving keg is almost optimal- definitely over 5 gallons.
I do like your method of a large bag. But with larger _____ that you're sticking into your fermented beer, the larger the surface area to drag in oxygen which kills these styles.
Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
I agree that dry hopping in a keg is the ideal way to go, and I like your idea of adding a filter to the end of the dip tube (that should solve one worry). I also like that you fill the keg right up to the top to account for the missing amount of beer later.
Using the less preferred option, a secondary, I do try to limit oxygen exposure as much as possible. Before transferring from the primary fermenter to the secondary fermenter, I flush out the secondary with CO2. After transferring, and adding the hop bag, I flush out the space above the beer once again with CO2.
Where did you find the dip tube filter?
I shortened the dip tube by 0.5" (it doesn't take much- be sure to remove less as you can always remove more later, you want it to sit as low in the keg as possible when it's in the filter)
and I drilled a hole in the lid of this, just barely larger than the diameter of the dip tube:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QRYVCQS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
and when you re-install the dip tube, you push it through the top of this filter. I removed the "chain" to the lid, and it works amazingly. The only thing left in my keg when I force transfer is wet hops.
Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
Thank you!
Wow! I just checked the price - only $15.99 in the US, and $103.57 in Canada!!!! What a mark-up!
Is that with pellet hops or leaf hops?
HopsAreGood
Well-Known Member
I have 1 of these on the dip tube of a keg and it works perfectly. All of my recent NEIPAs get a dry hop in the keg with this.
Hopefully shipping isn't prohibitive for you.
https://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#discountedbrewfilters
http://scottjanish.com/my-favorite-way-to-dry-hop-loose-in-primary-and-kegs/
Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
Thanks for this. I was not even aware of the existence of a floating diptube. Do you know of a good source for one?
Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
Great link, thank you!
HopsAreGood
Well-Known Member
Here you go:
http://www.clearbeerdraughtsystem.com/
There are other cheaper versions out there if you look.
Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
Great invention and very practical.
skleice
Silly Acts Brewing
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I use the Top Draw and DH loose in the keg. No issues with clogs...
https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Top-Draw-Beer-Pick-Up-Tube-P4643.aspx
Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
After becming aware of it, I checked one of our local beer supply shops, and they have one that looks the same. Unfortunately, they are currently out of stock, but I can check again later. What volume of beer/trub does it leave behind?
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
get the Clear Beer Draught System. You won't regret it. they work great with the screen. I use them on all kegs used as fermenters for NEIPA.
Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
From the time that this thread started to die a couple of years ago, has anyone heard of any additional leads or hints regarding the process or ingredients? For example, has anyone ever confirmed whether or not Centennial is included?
Both of your links point to the Scott Janish site.
Brew on
Oops: https://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#autosiphon
Clyde McCoy
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This is my clone recipe of Heady Topper. Other than the hop varieties, which remain unconfirmed, this should be pretty close. On my brewing to-do list.
Water:
SO4: 650 ppm (reduce if your brewing liquor is low in alkalinity)
Cl: 35 ppm
Mash (145F, 60'):
Target mash pH: 5.3-5.5 at 68F (“5.1-5.3” at mash temperature)
Thomas Fawcett Pearl Malt 14.25 lbs (95%)
Boil (212F, 60'):
CO2 hop extract 60' to 30-60 IBU ("I do not boil hops in my kettle")
12 oz dextrose 10' (5%)
Whirlfloc 10'
Yeast nutrient 10'
Hops:
There are 6 varieties in Heady Topper; only Simcoe is confirmed.
Amarillo was patented in late 2003 (USPP14127P2 - Hop plant named “VGXP01” - Google Patents)
Heady Topper was first brewed in January 2004
From Untappd: “Orange? Tropical Fruit? Pink Grapefruit? Pine? Spice?”
My guess: Amarillo, Cascade, Centennial, Chinook, Columbus, Simcoe
"An American IIPA brewed with love and dry hopped with Simcoe"
1 oz Amarillo, whirlpool
0.5 oz Columbus, whirlpool
0.5 oz Cascade, whirlpool
0.5 oz Centennial, whirlpool
0.5 oz Chinook, whirlpool
Dry hop is “under 4 oz. per 5 gallons”
4 oz Simcoe, dry hop final 4-5 days of fermentation
Yeast:
Conan
<0.5 million cells per ml per degree Plato
68F for a few days then up to 72F
Soft crash to 55-60F and harvest yeast
Add dry hops when the beer is racked into the conditioning tank
Heady is canned on day 24-25.
Water:
SO4: 650 ppm (reduce if your brewing liquor is low in alkalinity)
Cl: 35 ppm
Mash (145F, 60'):
Target mash pH: 5.3-5.5 at 68F (“5.1-5.3” at mash temperature)
Thomas Fawcett Pearl Malt 14.25 lbs (95%)
Boil (212F, 60'):
CO2 hop extract 60' to 30-60 IBU ("I do not boil hops in my kettle")
12 oz dextrose 10' (5%)
Whirlfloc 10'
Yeast nutrient 10'
Hops:
There are 6 varieties in Heady Topper; only Simcoe is confirmed.
Amarillo was patented in late 2003 (USPP14127P2 - Hop plant named “VGXP01” - Google Patents)
Heady Topper was first brewed in January 2004
From Untappd: “Orange? Tropical Fruit? Pink Grapefruit? Pine? Spice?”
My guess: Amarillo, Cascade, Centennial, Chinook, Columbus, Simcoe
"An American IIPA brewed with love and dry hopped with Simcoe"
1 oz Amarillo, whirlpool
0.5 oz Columbus, whirlpool
0.5 oz Cascade, whirlpool
0.5 oz Centennial, whirlpool
0.5 oz Chinook, whirlpool
Dry hop is “under 4 oz. per 5 gallons”
4 oz Simcoe, dry hop final 4-5 days of fermentation
Yeast:
Conan
<0.5 million cells per ml per degree Plato
68F for a few days then up to 72F
Soft crash to 55-60F and harvest yeast
Add dry hops when the beer is racked into the conditioning tank
Heady is canned on day 24-25.
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Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
I have researched Heady Topper extensively, and have read all the messages on this forum. There are actually a number of hops that ARE confirmed, which are:
Bittering Hop: CO2 hop extract
Whirlpool Hops: Simcoe, Amarillo and Columbus (plus one other, not confirmed);
Dry Hops: Columbus (plus one other, not confirmed, but definitely not Amarillo).
This contains new information, not yet seen on this forum.
Clyde McCoy
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"We brew Heady Topper with a proprietary blend of six hops."
Kimmich has confirmed Amarillo in one of the Alchemist's YouTube videos.
About Heady Topper, The Alchemist says:
"An American IIPA brewed with love and dry hopped with Simcoe"
Other than Amarillo and Simcoe, I have never seen the other 4 varieties confirmed by Kimmich or by The Alchemist, so I'd like to see your references!
I agree that Columbus is a near certainty, but that's different from "confirmed."
And my post quotes Kimmich: "I do not boil hops in my kettle"
Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
" Kimmich has confirmed Amarillo in one of the Alchemist's YouTube videos."
Yes, I mentioned above that it is only used in the Whirlpool hops.
My source was Kimmich himself
He also confirmed that only 4 hop varieties are used after the boiling hop. That doesn't exclude the possibility of one or two of the hops being used twice (i.e. in both the whirlpool hops and in the dry hops).
Yes, I mentioned above that it is only used in the Whirlpool hops.
My source was Kimmich himself
He also confirmed that only 4 hop varieties are used after the boiling hop. That doesn't exclude the possibility of one or two of the hops being used twice (i.e. in both the whirlpool hops and in the dry hops).
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
that must be one reason it is hard to get the right hop character. columbus can be all over the map in character from a beautiful dank to an onion/garlic bomb mess.
Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
Yes. It matters greatly from exactly where the hops are sourced. American Pacific northwest (Yakima - Washington) are the best.
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Kimmich has also stated that he plays around a bit with the hop bill, it isn't set in stone.
Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
You are absolutely right. The recipes change from time to time depending on the quality of the ingredients.
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
Just had a Heady a couple days ago when a friend brought one. Haven't had it in several months. I forget how much I love that beer. Definitely still a top 3 beer for me after all of these years. Damn.
Kimmich is also trying to source all ingredients locally from VT. That includes the hops.
I'd bet if he's using Columbus that it's grown locally.
I've chatted with him many times- the best information I ever got from him was that Heady Topper is celiac safe. His wife has celiac's (so does mine) and he's tested gluten content. He obtains a low PPM of gluten without clarifying agents- Conan cleans up golden promise extremely well.
They don't make any claims publicly about this because they'd have to test each batch. It also would probably throw off a lot of "beer snobs."
I'd bet if he's using Columbus that it's grown locally.
I've chatted with him many times- the best information I ever got from him was that Heady Topper is celiac safe. His wife has celiac's (so does mine) and he's tested gluten content. He obtains a low PPM of gluten without clarifying agents- Conan cleans up golden promise extremely well.
They don't make any claims publicly about this because they'd have to test each batch. It also would probably throw off a lot of "beer snobs."
Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
Columbus has been confirmed. They own property in the west on which they grow hops - Yakima, Washington.
skleice
Silly Acts Brewing
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Not to be the wet blanket, but this is absolutely false no matter what Kimmich says. I'm a celiac and brew gluten free beer with 100% gluten free grains. I can drink regular beer with no immediate effects, however it will slowly destroy the small bowel....no good. The only safe PPG for a celiac is 0 PPG.
Maybe I should have clarified- his wife doesn't react to HT and a few other beers of his. My wife, who has celiac's disease, doesn't either. I won't debate you on the "what is Celiac safe and what isn't" topic because that's not for this forum.
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