Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

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Ok I think I have an idea on dry hopping this now. Just finished culturing my heady and splitting it into a yeast bank and my main which I'll use for pitching in a day or two. Just a question did any one try the wort decanted off the yeast?
 
I have not, but I plan on it next time I ranch up some Conan. Supposedly it has a very lemon zest type character in the starter wort.
 
Transfered to secondary and hit 1.014 borderline 1.013 as FG so I'm pretty dam stoked, let's just say I had to walk out of the house and put my wipers up on my vehicle cause we are having an ice storm I walked back in and it was like a heady topper explosion of aroma in the house I was in heaven. Now to wait another four day then bottle and try and wait for carbonation lol,

Question on bottling are you guys just using the usual corn sugar or has any one tried the turbinado sugar at bottling? Just wondering and what are you shooting for in co2 vol on this? Figure try and get it perfect on the first try or at least try to lol
 
I know its a key aspect to the clone but is there a viable alternative to Pearl malt that would work for this? My LHBS doesn't carry it and I cant seem to find it on Beersmith 2 (Even amongst the various add on's for Thomas Fawcett Malts)
 
50% Golden Promise, 50% 2-row. I've done the HT clone that way several times and I could not tell the difference from Pearl malt.
 
With such a hoppy beer are you guys really detecting the differences in the English malts?

I could be wrong, but it seems to me any UK or continental pale ale malt will work.
 
Your right...I do know for a fact John tried using Maris otter in one of his test batches...he said he liked it but was too crisp...I figured Maris otter and Vienna for a bit sweeter less biscuit profile. I have never messed around with the other malts so maybe I shouldn't of suggested anytving. Heady topper feels simmilar to Maris otter to me, that was my first impressions before I knew it was brewed with pearl.
 
I think some of the other TF malts mixed to some extent with 2-row would also be a good substitute for Pearl, and I really don't think it makes a difference which 2-row malt is used. By using a TF malt that is more bready than Pearl and mixing it with 2-row you can get a consistency that is closer to Pearl, and since the hops and Conan yeast are what really give HT it's taste IMO, if you can get a mix of malts that have the consistency and mouth feel of Pearl it's highly unlikely you are really going to notice the difference behind all those hops.
 
Disaster averted, I stopped by my LHBS tonight and they now carry Munton's Pearl :ban:

I would have to believe that it would be a comparable substitute for TF Pearl?
 
So should I cold crash today with the 2nd round of dry hops or skip cold crashing and bottle?
 
1fast636 said:
So should I cold crash today with the 2nd round of dry hops or skip cold crashing and bottle?
Click to expand...

I would think that you would want to let the dry hops ride at fermentation temps for at least a few days anyway.

Changing speeds a bit, has anyone done this without the hop shot or found a method for substituting the hopshot? I cant source anything locally and I cant imagine paying $15 to get one shipped to me.
 
I'm on the second set of dry hops on the last day (4th day). It has been on dry hop stages for past 8 days, I'm asking if you guys are cold crashing or just racking with no cold crashing I prolly wasn't really clear on my first question lol
 
1fast636 said:
I'm on the second set of dry hops on the last day (4th day). It has been on dry hop stages for past 8 days, I'm asking if you guys are cold crashing or just racking with no cold crashing I prolly wasn't really clear on my first question lol
Click to expand...

it would depend on how clear the beer in my carboy was. If there's a big hop cake on top of it, I'm definitely cold crashing for a day or two. if its pretty clear and just has a few random clouds of white foam on top and a big trub pile on the bottom, im probably more apt to just move it to the bottling bucket and go from there.
 
Ha that's what I figured it's like 1/4 cake of hops on top I'll set her in the near freezing garage for a day and bottle sunday lets me take aday to clean some bottles and delable, I will say this I can't wait for this one to be carbed
 
Just be careful it doesn't actually freeze in the garage. Lol but if it's that cold it'll drop everything pretty fast so maybe leave it for a day at most. You'll see the hops settle and form a ring on the bottom when they do drop out.
 
Adirondack47 said:
I would think that you would want to let the dry hops ride at fermentation temps for at least a few days anyway.



Changing speeds a bit, has anyone done this without the hop shot or found a method for substituting the hopshot? I cant source anything locally and I cant imagine paying $15 to get one shipped to me.
Click to expand...


Order the bulk can from Yakima valley hops. It's so much cheaper and I pretty much use them in all my IPAs for the bittering hop now. They work great and there is so much less hop matter in the kettle.
 
Bottles this morning I will say next round think I will try the comet recipe for hops more fruity then piney/dank but we will see what it is like in week or two can't wait still one solid brew even if it's not a perfect clone just yet, altho I haven't had the real thing in a while thank god a friend from the local vfw has a case in there fridge and are willing to do a trade and I can do a side by side
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1425827020.838049.jpg
 
I will compare once carbed with this one I did and the real thing but I have a feeling the piny dankness iS just missing alil in my version right now but guess we will wait and see it has been a while since I had heady from the can
 
bobbrews said:
I believe the mystery hop we are all missing is Comet. There is likely no Amarillo in Heady Topper.



It has also been stated several times that Kimmich does not boil any hops for Heady Topper. He relies on HopShot for nearly, if not 100% of the IBUs in this beer. So, instead of a hefty 8.50 oz. mixed hops at 5 minutes and 0 minutes, it is likely that Kimmich uses slightly more HopShot, and implements a warm hopstand around 165 F for all of the hopstand hops instead. This temp. is below the 167F myrcene boiloff threshold. Myrcene is that hop compound that offers floral/citrusy/pine.

Lastly, I've never seen a commercial clone or brewed an IIPA whereupon the recipe called for more hopstand hops than dryhops. The dryhop regimen always contains the largest amount of total recipe hops by weight. Pliny, Double Jack, Head Hunter, Tricerahops, Kern Citra, and Alpine all go by this idealogy.

For that reason, I think there is likely 6 to 7 oz. dryhops per 5 gallons beer and only 5 to 6 oz. total hopstand hops per 5 gallon batch.

1.074 / 1.011

86.9% Pearl Malt
4.60% Corn Sugar or Turbinado
4.60% White Wheat
3.90% Caramalt

13-14 ml HopShot @ 90 Minutes (shoot for about 155-170 IBUs)
2.50 oz. Simcoe @ 160 F, 45 Minute Hopstand
1.00 oz. Centennial @ 160 F, 45 Minute Hopstand
0.75 oz. Columbus @ 160 F, 45 Minute Hopstand
0.75 oz. Comet @ 160 F, 45 Minute Hopstand
1.50 oz. Simcoe @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Centennial @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Columbus @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Comet @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
0.50 oz. Apollo @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop

Conan @ 63 F, then ramp up to 68-70 F after ferm slows down/completes.
Click to expand...


Appreciate the quote.. and damned if it doesnt make some sense.. Comet is dank. It's literally weed and grapefruit juice in a 50 states legal form.

Comet though.. is interesting, as it's not always available for homebrewers, as last year was a terrible year for comet, but it's back this year in enough form for us little guys to enjoy.

Come to think of it.. the 2 brews I've used comet in.. I do get some notes from it that remind me of heady.. old and new heady at that.. I feel it's a bit over the top like Apollo, and questions the addition in heady, but would make total sense for being an off the wall, hard to find, obscure hop that would make cloning the beer harder to get nailed down.
 
So my buddy and I are looking to brew this on Thursday next week and we would LOVE to have a couple on and to do a side by side comparison when this is ready. Problem is we live near Chicago and can't get it out here. We have some phenomenal local breweries around here too and would love offer up a trade. Of course we have access to 3 floyds zombie dust if that perks anyone's interest. I am also actually sipping on a brew called "Da Fuzz" from Pipeworks Brewing Co. based out of Chicago. This brew is AWESOME IMO. They also have a tone of others that a liquor store down the street from me sells a ton of their variety of bombers. Check them out and let me know if anyone is interested in a trade. PM me PLEASE!!
 
bobbrews said:
I believe the mystery hop we are all missing is Comet. There is likely no Amarillo in Heady Topper.

1.074 / 1.011

86.9% Pearl Malt
4.60% Corn Sugar or Turbinado
4.60% White Wheat
3.90% Caramalt

13-14 ml HopShot @ 90 Minutes (shoot for about 155-170 IBUs)
2.50 oz. Simcoe @ 160 F, 45 Minute Hopstand
1.00 oz. Centennial @ 160 F, 45 Minute Hopstand
0.75 oz. Columbus @ 160 F, 45 Minute Hopstand
0.75 oz. Comet @ 160 F, 45 Minute Hopstand
1.50 oz. Simcoe @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Centennial @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Columbus @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Comet @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
0.50 oz. Apollo @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop

Conan @ 63 F, then ramp up to 68-70 F after ferm slows down/completes.
Click to expand...

Can anyone lend insight to this recipe with the Comet additions? My gut is saying to stick with the OP to get a baseline before swaying off of the line. We've ordered a pound of Comet for testing in whatever, just aren't sure if we're doing it in this batch or not, yet.

That being said, I can't see when the original recipe (first post) was last updated. I see quite a few of other's takes on it throughout the thread; is the recipe within the first post still the 'current' thinking?
 
rustedbucket said:
Can anyone lend insight to this recipe with the Comet additions? My gut is saying to stick with the OP to get a baseline before swaying off of the line. We've ordered a pound of Comet for testing in whatever, just aren't sure if we're doing it in this batch or not, yet.

That being said, I can't see when the original recipe (first post) was last updated. I see quite a few of other's takes on it throughout the thread; is the recipe within the first post still the 'current' thinking?
Click to expand...

I helped theveganbrewer (OP) a lot with the recipe on the first page. We traded a lot of PMs and we have both made about 5 attempts each. It seems that he has since retired from homebrewing. While the 1st page recipe produces a very fine IIPA, it is not a clone for Heady Topper. More tweaking is required. I brewed my revised version last month and it is pretty darn close. It has more of that marijuana dankness that is so obvious in the real thing.

The recipe also needed more bitterness to combat the juicy hops, which is why I upped the HopShot and slightly reduced the Caramalt. Perhaps you can add 1/2 oz Apollo to the hopstand, but the rest of the 5/0/Aroma Steep additions can really be consolidated. You also don't need a whole 8.5 oz. for that time frame. There are also zero boil hops in the real thing so the 5 minute additions are definitely not accurate. The dryhop should contain the most recipe hops by weight, as this patten is very apparent in the large majority of top-rated American IIPAs.
 
bobbrews said:
I helped theveganbrewer (OP) a lot with the recipe on the first page. We traded a lot of PMs and we have both made about 5 attempts each. It seems that he has since retired from homebrewing. While the 1st page recipe produces a very fine IIPA, it is not a clone for Heady Topper. More tweaking is required. I brewed my revised version last month and it is pretty darn close. It has more of that marijuana dankness that is so obvious in the real thing.



The recipe also needed more bitterness to combat the juicy hops, which is why I upped the HopShot and slightly reduced the Caramalt. Perhaps you can keep the 1/2 oz Apollo in the hopstand, but the rest of the 5/0/Aroma Steep additions can really be consolidated. You also don't need a whole 8.5 oz. for that time frame. There are also zero boil hops in the real thing so the 5 minute additions are definitely not accurate. The dryhop should contain the most recipe hops by weight, as this patten is very apparent in the large majority of top-rated American IIPAs.
Click to expand...


Any chance you could share your most recent attempt? Just asking since it's an expensive recipe to not be a close heady but good iipa... Thanks!
 
bobbrews said:
I helped theveganbrewer (OP) a lot with the recipe on the first page. We traded a lot of PMs and we have both made about 5 attempts each. It seems that he has since retired from homebrewing. While the 1st page recipe produces a very fine IIPA, it is not a clone for Heady Topper. More tweaking is required. I brewed my revised version last month and it is pretty darn close. It has more of that marijuana dankness that is so obvious in the real thing.

The recipe also needed more bitterness to combat the juicy hops, which is why I upped the HopShot and slightly reduced the Caramalt. Perhaps you can keep the 1/2 oz Apollo in the hopstand, but the rest of the 5/0/Aroma Steep additions can really be consolidated. You also don't need a whole 8.5 oz. for that time frame. There are also zero boil hops in the real thing so the 5 minute additions are definitely not accurate. The dryhop should contain the most recipe hops by weight, as this patten is very apparent in the large majority of top-rated American IIPAs.
Click to expand...

Hi Bob, thank you for your reply on this one. I'm rustedbucket's brew buddy on this one and we're doing this up on Thursday. We had a couple additional questions on this in response to your reply.

1. We are planning on getting rid of Apollo completely and spreading that .5oz that Apollo was evenly by 4 and making those other additions 1.625 oz's as opposed to 1.5oz's. Did you/have you done that or would you recommend that?

2. What do you mean by "consolidate"? Do you mean reducing some/all of the additions or swapping them?

3. Are your percentages of the grain bill based on a total 13.25lb's of grain?
 
The recipe is listed on the previous page. The only changes I would make to it is adding an additional 0.50 oz. of Apollo to the hopstand hops.

I'm on my phone now so I don't have Beersmith available, but I definitely used between 8-10 oz. each white wheat, turbinado, and caramalt at 74% efficiency. The OP used between 8-12 oz. each, so it isn't that different. The main point is that you want to use less caramalt than 5.7%. I feel this is slightly too much. About 4-5% Caramalt is more likely. Turbinado and White Wheat should be identical amounts. Total grist weight was 13.50 lbs. including sugar and about 6.5 SRM.
 
bobbrews said:
The recipe is listed on the previous page. The only changes I would make to it is adding an additional 0.50 oz. of Apollo to the hopstand hops.

Let me pull the exact amount of grain used... brb
Click to expand...

So ADD .5 more Apollo? Don't get rid of it? Sorry, we interpreted "perhaps you can keep the 1/2 oz Apollo in the hopstand" as you got rid of it.
 
Well fully carbed but not heady I don't think, it's been since christmas I had a can but I will say mine is in chill have right now but if I let this sit in the fridge for a week or two I have a feeling I'll have a clear beer it's really weird cause I never seen a clear heady. This is a solid base to grow on tho I used the farmhouse brewing kit time to tweak and see what I can do comet batch coming up next
 
One thing I am at odds with regarding my recent attempt is whether to have:

Upped the HopShot to 20 ml (which would give 40AAU) then combine this with a ton of 165F hopstand hops (no further isomerization and maximum aroma).

or...

Keep the HopShot around 13-15 ml at the bittering slot, then add a ton of whirlpool hops at flameout so some isomerization is still occuring (smoother bitterness, less aroma, but using a ton of late hops like we do here would offset that loss). The additional 10AAU or so would be gained from the whirlpool additions.



The path I went with was 14 ml HopShot and then no hops added until the wort was around 165F. While this attempt was my best yet, I feel that it still needs slightly more bitterness to offset all of those juicy, sweet-perceived. late hops. I would recommend the 2nd option referenced above. I feel that you need some IBU contributions post-boil. Despite the hot temps. boiling off some of the delicate oils, Flavor/Aroma shouldn't be a problem with the massive hop additions added at flameout/whirlpool for this beer.
 
Then perhaps we'll do that. We'll up the Hopshot to 16 and leave the hopstand/steep alone. While we won't be able to compare, it is something to base our first attempt on.
 
Anyone use this grain bill for any other recipes. I was thinking of using this grain bill minus the sugar for an all citra pale ale.
 
Got 5 jars of the good stuff ready for storage or to pitch! Got a nice amount of yeast over a week or two stepping up some Conan from a can of Heady. Pitched that into a 5% ale, saved the slurry and just harvested 5 jars of yeast.

Looking forward to brewing some nice ales and a couple clones of Heady this year
 
olotti said:
Anyone use this grain bill for any other recipes. I was thinking of using this grain bill minus the sugar for an all citra pale ale.
Click to expand...
I've haven't yet, but I just built a 1.25 gal recipe around this grain bill for a mosaic IPA. I'm going to use hop extract for bittering, but all mosaic hops for all other additions. And I'm going to use Conan yeast too. The small batch will allow me to build enough yeast for a 5 gal batch of this HT clone recipe.
 

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