Hazy IPAs, Why?

[rodwha]

I had the New Belgium version and wondered why this has been a fad. To me the overall flavor of the beer is as murky as the beer itself. It seems to defy what an IPA is supposed to be. Looking over their ingredients I assume it has to be The Hefeweizen yeast. So what’s the big deal about?

 

[ccous]

Try something other than NB, I guess

 

[sborz22]

I totally see using many yeast strains in different than intended styles but Hefe in an IPA seems very strange. I couldn’t imagine wanting the esters and phenols in an IPA but that is just me. I can picture the muddled mess as described.

 

[rodwha]

I couldn’t catch any notes of cloves or bananas, but then maybe it was well masked by the hops.

As suggested maybe I should try someone else’s, though I still don’t understand the attraction to a cloudy IPA. I have two more left. Next time I’ll see about posting a pic. It’s much more murky than a typical wheat beer.

 

[GPP33]

Meh, that pretty well describes all the ones I’ve I had. I don’t get it either but to some they are the best thing ever so who am I to judge?

 

[couchsending]

When you drink the best executions of the style it will make sense. 98% of them are all in the same boat and pretty meh. I wouldn’t judge this style by something made by New Belgium however.

 

[rodwha]

When you drink the best executions of the style it will make sense. 98% of them are all in the same boat and pretty meh. I wouldn’t judge this style by something made by New Belgium however.

If the wide majority are meh then it seems, as a style, it’s missed it’s mark, right? I’m certain I’ve tried one other, and thought something similar, but don’t recall what it was.

I’m curious though which ones you know of that truly shine and are in the remaining 2%. Those I’d certainly want to try.

I think New Belgium makes a fantastic amber and feel it is one of the best commercial examples. Their black lager is pretty good. Citradelic (Spl?) is also quite good along with Hemperor. Most everything else is middle of the road to me, but a fair example for the style.

 

[thehaze]

There is no Hefe yeast involved in hazy IPAs and it's no longer a fad. It's an official BJCP style. But I think you knew that already.

The New Belgium one is not a good example. You want to try TreeHouse, Trillium, Monkish and all the other new, good ones.

 

[specharka]

There is no Hefe yeast involved in hazy IPAs and it's no longer a fad. It's an official BJCP style. But I think you knew that already.

The New Belgium one is not a good example. You want to try TreeHouse, Trillium, Monkish and all the other new, good ones.

The prevailing evidence indicates that Tree House uses a small (like 2%) proportion of WB-06 in the yeast blend for their hazy IPAs, so it’s not technically incorrect.

I cannot think of a single example of a universally available hazy IPA that I would recommend trying. So many breweries are just trying to tie a hitch to the bandwagon and honestly it shows.

 

[mongoose33]

There are many variants of this style, so don't judge just by what New Belgium does. They do some weird things from time to time. i was there this summer and they had a hemp beer which just about ties for first for the worst beer I've ever had. But some seem to like it.

I think the basic idea behind a hazy IPA is that it has a lot more flavor and aroma than just a standard IPA whose claim to fame often is just...bitterness. A lot of people like hop flavor and aroma, but don't like a beer so bitter it nearly takes the enamel off their teeth.

I've done a couple hazy IPAs, and I'm still tuning, trying to find a balance with enough bitterness but also that juicy flavor and aroma.

As @ccous says, try a couple more and see what you think.

 

[couchsending]

Treehouse uses a blend of English, Hefe, Belgian, and another yeast in their beers so there’s that.

The issue with this style is most breweries are trying to copy something using ideas and concepts that homebrewers came up with to make beers look a certain way. The best brewers of the style don’t do these things. So you have the guys at the top making awesome beer and everyone else making thick, sweet, muddy beers that taste and smell like rotten fruit and hop polyphenols.

 

[myndflyte]

No hefe yeast usually. It's all about the grain bill and adding a drop hop charge a high krausen to get biotransformation of the hop oils. It's not going for the traditional IPA but instead the majority of the hops are late addition to get the perceived sense of a juicy hop bomp without the IBUs actually being all that high.

As for why, well why not? It's fun to try new things and discover new ways to brew beer, but it doesn't mean everyone has to like it.

 

[couchsending]

No hefe yeast usually. It's all about the grain bill and adding a drop hop charge a high krausen to get biotransformation of the hop oils. It's not going for the traditional IPA but instead the majority of the hops are late addition to get the perceived sense of a juicy hop bomp without the IBUs actually being all that high.

As for why, well why not? It's fun to try new things and discover new ways to brew beer, but it doesn't mean everyone has to like it.

Again the top tier breweries of this style in my mind at least don’t:

Add lots of flaked adjuncts
Dry hop at high Krausen
Do gigantic whirlpool additions
Use piles of CaCl

 

[anotherbeerplease]

I like drinking them, and brewing them. To each their own. For me it's a way to enjoy hops without all the bitterness of IPA or DIPA. Although I definitely agree that many commercial examples miss the mark, same with any other beer.

 

[H20ENG]

Most I've had are "bandwagon" beers and not very well executed. The new trend that makes these even worse IMO is the addition of lactose to make them even sweeter. Blecch...

 

[cegan09]

Again the top tier breweries of this style in my mind at least don’t:

Add lots of flaked adjuncts
Dry hop at high Krausen
Do gigantic whirlpool additions
Use piles of CaCl

Where are you getting some of this? The big names for sure do a lot of whirlpool additions, and do a ton of dry hoping. The term biotransformation has been thrown around by them too. Flaked adjuncts are done more and in greater quantities by home brewers too.


The point of the style, to be a smooth, not overly bitter, hugely aromatic and flavorful IPA. The haze is a byproduct of the technique, not a goal. A well made one is done targeting the way it tastes and smells, not how it looks. There are a LOT of really bad examples out there from breweries trying to cash in. Examples done well are really good, and examples done poorly are really not good.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

The best NE IPAs don't rely on yeast, flour or lactose at all. Just as @cegan09 stated. The goal should be an easy drinking hazy beer not a murky beer with a harsh yeast bite attempted to be softened by dosing with lactose.

 

[ong]

New Belgium is not whom I would turn to for a good example. The Sierra Nevada and Sam Adams versions have not been exemplary either. Maybe I don’t get out enough, but honestly I find it a lot easier to brew a good one than to find one at a bottle shop (freshness being so important to the style).

That said, Ft. George’s “City Of Dreams” (a canned NEAPA) is one of the best commercial beers I’ve ever had.

 

[couchsending]

Where are you getting some of this? The big names for sure do a lot of whirlpool additions, and do a ton of dry hoping. The term biotransformation has been thrown around by them too. Flaked adjuncts are done more and in greater quantities by home brewers too.


The point of the style, to be a smooth, not overly bitter, hugely aromatic and flavorful IPA. The haze is a byproduct of the technique, not a goal. A well made one is done targeting the way it tastes and smells, not how it looks. There are a LOT of really bad examples out there from breweries trying to cash in. Examples done well are really good, and examples done poorly are really not good.

Treehouse
- more kettle additions than WP
- no wheat or oats
- one dry hop charge at end of Ferm
All beers except Bright which is
after Ferm.

Trillium
- any non DDH beer one DH charge
at 60-63* ( so not during Ferm)
- new beers with no wheat or oats
- no street beer has anything but
Columbus hotside and It’s split
Equally kettle and WP

Monkish
- most beers no wheat or oats
- no dry hopping during fermentation

Hill Farmstead
- Shaun is more tight lipped than anyone but any info you can find from him about his process and philosophy is kettle and WP additions are about equal, no dry hopping during fermentation, most hoppy beers don’t have oats or wheat.

This is all information straight from the brewers, from their websites, etc.

Those are the top tier with HF and TH being the best in total execution and I’ve probably had em fresh from most of everyone’s local fav that is supposedly better than these, they’re not. Just cause you can make a thick, beer, that’s super aromatic, and not bitter doesn’t mean you can make great ipa.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

Check out Tired Hands Brewing and Sloop Brewing (my favorite) too...

 

[cegan09]

@couchsending source on some of that? I've never seen direct comments from Tree house on any of that.

I did agree that oats and other flaked adjuncts are a home brew thing, not a pro brewer thing.

 

[anotherbeerplease]

@couchsending source on some of that? I've never seen direct comments from Tree house on any of that.

I did agree that oats and other flaked adjuncts are a home brew thing, not a pro brewer thing.

Why? Too $$ on a large scale? Or is it a flavor issue? I made a recipe I'm wanting to try with 20% oats, but maybe that's far too much.

 

[couchsending]

@couchsending source on some of that? I've never seen direct comments from Tree house on any of that.

I did agree that oats and other flaked adjuncts are a home brew thing, not a pro brewer thing.

Nate’s twitter account... Articles and podcasts with JC same with Henry from Monkish...

 

[couchsending]

Why? Too $$ on a large scale? Or is it a flavor issue? I made a recipe I'm wanting to try with 20% oats, but maybe that's far too much.

Oats and wheat have a flavor impact. If you want a super oaty or wheaty beer then sure use them but you don’t need them if your only goal with them is haze.

The key to permanent haze without significant flavor and stability impact of adding piles of high protein adjuncts is knowing your malt analysis, water chemistry, how pH at every step of the process affects the end result, and in my opinion step mashing.

 

[kevin58]

There is no Hefe yeast involved in hazy IPAs and it's no longer a fad. It's an official BJCP style. But I think you knew that already. ...

Someone better tell the BJCP. The brewers association has included it but not the most recent BJCP guidelines.

 

[bob1852]

Someone better tell the BJCP. The brewers association has included it but not the most recent BJCP guidelines.

Ahem.

http://dev.bjcp.org/beer-styles/21b-specialty-ipa-new-england-ipa/

 

[couchsending]

Not to beat a dead horse but since most think I’m full of sh** here’s a photo for reference (and I’m aware photos don’t really say much about a beer).

I theoretically did everything to make this clear except post Ferm finings. This has been in an undisturbed keg for 6 weeks now and shows zero signs of clearing.

8% IIPA
Grainbill
71% Weyermann Pils
20% Mecca Pale Ale Malt
2% Honey Malt
1lb of Sugar


42 IBUs at 60
Motueka/Nelson at 20/5 for 20ish IBUs
3oz total Motueka/Nelson/Rakau WP

1/2 Tab Whirlfloc in kettle

Transferred to FV after all break had settled so wort was almost crystal clear. Dumped any remaining trub at 12 hours.

Imperial A30 yeast

Zero dry hops added during fermentation. Cold crashed (with head pressure) to 55 for two days to try to get as much yeast to flocc as possible. Pulled yeast and added DH addition (9oz split Rakau/Nelson). Let rise to 62 and sit for 5 days. Slowly crashed to 40 (I can’t go lower and maintain positive pressure effectively) and sit for 2 days. Closed transfer to keg and force carbonated while lagering at 32 for a week.

Smells and tastes like fruit with a touch of pine from the Rakau. Still light with soft bitterness with a head that lasts for the whole pint. Still some things that need to be better but I don’t really like to make beers above 6.5% so not sure when I’ll try another one.

Sorry I suck at photos.

 

[rodwha]

The Hazy IPA and NEIPA are not the same beer from what I understand, but that some feel they crossover.

 

[rodwha]

There are many variants of this style, so don't judge just by what New Belgium does. They do some weird things from time to time. i was there this summer and they had a hemp beer which just about ties for first for the worst beer I've ever had. But some seem to like it.

I think the basic idea behind a hazy IPA is that it has a lot more flavor and aroma than just a standard IPA whose claim to fame often is just...bitterness. A lot of people like hop flavor and aroma, but don't like a beer so bitter it nearly takes the enamel off their teeth.

I've done a couple hazy IPAs, and I'm still tuning, trying to find a balance with enough bitterness but also that juicy flavor and aroma.

As @ccous says, try a couple more and see what you think.

Sounds like you’d be describing a west coast style.

 

[couchsending]

The Hazy IPA and NEIPA are not the same beer from what I understand, but that some feel they crossover.

It depends on who you talk to. It’s a big gigantic clusterf*ck in all reality. The people that started it just wanted to make softer more aromatic beers that were more enjoyable to drink. It’s spun out of control since then.

 

[cegan09]

Couchsending, I'm with you on where the haze comes from. I was just under the impression that the pros were using whirlpool hops significantly. Thats why I asked for sources because it's interesting to learn more.

The Hazy IPA and NEIPA are not the same beer from what I understand, but that some feel they crossover.

Kinda but not really? Everyone jumping on the bandwagon missed the point of them and assumed that the goal was haze, so they focused on that. But the goal is really a specific beer that is smooth, pleasant, not bitter, and hugely flavorful and aromatic. Those that are focusing on the haze aspect are missing the point and perpetuating bad examples of the style. Those that get it understand that haze is a side affect, not a goal.

It should never be from yeast (I've made crysltal clear beers with conan, and i've made beers with conan that are hazy 6 months on). It should not be from adjuncts. No one uses flour. I was always under the impression that home brewers were using flaked adjuncts for body more than anything.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

Get yourself a fresh Heady and you'll understand "why"

 

[rodwha]

Get yourself a fresh Heady and you'll understand "why"

I'm certain I was sent one. I know it’s considered an epic IPA, but I thought it just somewhere in the middle. Good but not outstanding. Still waiting for a Pliny.

I guess I just really prefer a west coast style. A huge hop presence with little malt coming through, and low bitterness. Not that I can’t enjoy other styles, but these are the ones I favor, and therein lies my issue I suppose.

 

[tellyho]

Have to agree that you need to try a good FRESH one in order to appreciate the style. Unfortunately, many lose their hop character within a week. Many breweries are making beers that they call hazy IPAs, most of the ones I've had are definitely meh.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

I agree that is has to be fresh. I had my first Pliny a few years ago and was like "Meh, what's all the hype about?" That being said i have no idea how old it was or what that bottle had been through to get to me. But for me with a fresh Heady, Focal or Crusher when you open that can and the blast of hop aromas hits your nose its just completely epic for me. Then your first taste!

 

[rodwha]

We do road trips often and always find a few brew pubs along the way. California seems to be next on the list.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]I guess I just really prefer a west coast style. A huge hop presence with little malt coming through, and low bitterness. [...]

Low bitterness? Where'd you get that from?
In its heyday West Coast IPA was all about who could fit the most IBUs into a bottle. Total throw-weight battle...

Cheers!

 

[MT's AZ Ale Haus]

I assume you are referring to this...

I personally dig all the VooDoo IPA's.

 

[MT's AZ Ale Haus]

This is another tasty Hazy IPA

 

[6Tap]

FYI
West Coast is the Best Coast, beer included!