Harveys Best clone questions

[Nixie]

I have had a harveys best clone in the fermenter for ~5 days now with 1968, took a day to get going and then finally made its way from 1.043 to 1.022 at around day 2-3, but for the last 2 days it has sat at basicly 1.021/1.020. I was aiming for 1.014. tried shaking, even carefully moved the yeast cake with a spatulafrom the bottom but nothing seems to be happening. also have taken the temp up to 72 to wake it but no use. Im fermenting in a fermzilla all rounder and tracking with a rapt pill, just watching it bouce 1.020-1.021 hourly! should I keep it at 72f a bit longer or cool it down and let it clean up for 5 days or so?

 

[Witherby]

I have had a harveys best clone in the fermenter for ~5 days now with 1968, took a day to get going and then finally made its way from 1.043 to 1.022 at around day 2-3, but for the last 2 days it has sat at basicly 1.021/1.020. I was aiming for 1.014. tried shaking, even carefully moved the yeast cake with a spatulafrom the bottom but nothing seems to be happening. also have taken the temp up to 72 to wake it but no use. Im fermenting in a fermzilla all rounder and tracking with a rapt pill, just watching it bouce 1.020-1.021 hourly! should I keep it at 72f a bit longer or cool it down and let it clean up for 5 days or so?

If the rapt is anything like the Tilt I don’t trust the FG number. The trend is probably right but maybe not the number. Can you confirm with a hydrometer?

 

[Nixie]

If the rapt is anything like the Tilt I don’t trust the FG number. The trend is probably right but maybe not the number. Can you confirm with a hydrometer?

That’s a good point, it could be wrong, but the 1.020 stalling point seems to be a common theme with this yeast. And it did start out accurate. Either way I will leave it a day and perhaps check with a sample

 

[Witherby]

That’s a good point, it could be wrong, but the 1.020 stalling point seems to be a common theme with this yeast. And it did start out accurate. Either way I will leave it a day and perhaps check with a sample

OG is more likely to be accurate in fresh wort, but kräusen or trub or hops stuck to the device can effect the FG reading.

 

[Nixie]

OG is more likely to be accurate in fresh wort, but kräusen or trub or hops stuck to the device can effect the FG reading.

Something is still going on, I have the spunding valve set at about 10psi and it has built back up since I had it open a few hrs ago, will report back later

 

[Nixie]

Well, the sample concurs with 1.020. Tastes pretty harsh and still very cloudy. I’m quite new at this so I’m not sure how things should be tasting after day 5

 

[ba-brewer]

@Nixie
What was your recipe?
Did you build a starter or just pitch after smacking the pack? Did the pack swell up and how long did it take?

How long did you have the fermentor under pressure?

Prior to stirring was the beer clear or cloudy?

When I have used 1968 it is usually about half way to terminal gravity after about 36hour, then 75% after 24 hours more then almost to terminal gravity 24 hours after that. By day 5 it should taste like beer, but if you have a lot of yeast in your sample that can be kind of earthy.

 

[Nixie]

@Nixie
What was your recipe?
Did you build a starter or just pitch after smacking the pack? Did the pack swell up and how long did it take?

How long did you have the fermentor under pressure?

Prior to stirring was the beer clear or cloudy?

When I have used 1968 it is usually about half way to terminal gravity after about 36hour, then 75% after 24 hours more then almost to terminal gravity 24 hours after that. By day 5 it should taste like beer, but if you have a lot of yeast in your sample that can be kind of earthy.

I smacked, waited about 5-6 hrs, and the pack swelled but not super big. I pitched directly into 30L I did pitch perhaps a little warmer than I should have (-21c) I then let it drop to 18 which should have been my pitch temp. Recipe is a Harvey’s best bitter clone I found on Brewfather. I kept the spunding valve on the entire time

 

[ba-brewer]

I smacked, waited about 5-6 hrs, and the pack swelled but not super big. I pitched directly into 30L I did pitch perhaps a little warmer than I should have (-21c) I then let it drop to 18 which should have been my pitch temp. Recipe is a Harvey’s best bitter clone I found on Brewfather. I kept the spunding valve on the entire time

I forgot to ask about the use by date, but if the pack did not swell up tight that is probably the reason for the slow start.

In general with an ale yeast and especially a british one you would want to limit pressure for for at least the first few day to get the yeast to produce esters. Pressure can slow down fermentation as well.

If the beer is cloudy the yeast is still in suspension and is still working, I would remove the spunding valve and add a airlock and let it go for a while.

 

[Nixie]

I forgot to ask about the use by date, but if the pack did not swell up tight that is probably the reason for the slow start.

In general with an ale yeast and especially a british one you would want to limit pressure for for at least the first few day to get the yeast to produce esters. Pressure can slow down fermentation as well.

If the beer is cloudy the yeast is still in suspension and is still working, I would remove the spunding valve and add a airlock and let it go for a while.

It was best used before July of this year, I didn’t find a manufactured date. I’m wondering if my spurge was a bit hot and maybe I over extracted some tannins. Either way I have opened the spunding valve all the way, tbh I didn’t find it too sweet at all, so ending up around 1.020 is ok, just hope it develops into something drinkable.

 

[ba-brewer]

It was best used before July of this year, I didn’t find a manufactured date. I’m wondering if my spurge was a bit hot and maybe I over extracted some tannins. Either way I have opened the spunding valve all the way, tbh I didn’t find it too sweet at all, so ending up around 1.020 is ok, just hope it develops into something drinkable.

The MFG date is 6 months before the best use by date for Wyeast yeasts. I have pitched smacks packs direct before but have switched to making a starters a day or two ahead to make sure I have viable yeast ready on brew day.

what kind of spunding valve are you using? If it is bowtie type thing do you have a tube attached to the output side that is submerged in liquid? I ask because if the spunding valve is open then oxygen could enter the fermentor. Having the output in liquid also shows how much gas is being expelled.

 

[Nixie]

what kind of spunding valve are you using? If it is bowtie type thing do you have a tube attached to the output side that is submerged in liquid? I ask because if the spunding valve is open then oxygen could enter the fermentor. Having the output in liquid also shows how much gas is being expelled.

Yea it’s a blow-tie 2, I didn’t bother with the liquid cause it was one way, but I suppose open is a different story!. I have a feeling my extraction was not up to snuff and I also have too many tannins, I will have to make a second attempt.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I made a clone of Harvey’s Sussex Bitter yesterday and used a version of Nottingham dry yeast. This morning it’s going like a train in the fermentation fridge. Usually after 5 days and it will be at 1010.

 

[Nixie]

I made a clone of Harvey’s Sussex Bitter yesterday and used a version of Nottingham dry yeast. This morning it’s going like a train in the fermentation fridge. Usually after 5 days and it will be at 1010.

Do you have a link to the recipe? I have a pack of Nottingham, might try again, the 1969 was smelling incredible, the taste though, it’s like hop soup! As I said though I’m new, I thought I understood the process but I think I’ve gone wrong in a couple places.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Do you have a link to the recipe? I have a pack of Nottingham, might try again, the 1969 was smelling incredible, the taste though, it’s like hop soup! As I said though I’m new, I thought I understood the process but I think I’ve gone wrong in a couple places.

Brewed a Harvey’s Sussex Bitter yesterday 22 litres as follows
3800g Muntons Planet Pale
200g Flaked Maize
200g Dark Crystal 145 L
Mash 22 litres @65C
Sparge 10 litres @75C
Hops
24g Progress @60m
25g Bramling Cross @15m
20g EKG whirlpool @80C for 20m
Yeast
CML Midland @20C (Use Nottingham)
OG 1045 BHE 75%

 

[DuncB]

Harveys ferment open and rouse their yeast.
I would not trust any gyro floating gravity measurer.
Once that gravity curve flattens out and stays flat it's done fermenting.
You've bumped the temp for a diacetyl rest so I'd let it fall naturally now and you should see it flocc out.

 

[Nixie]

Harveys ferment open and rouse their yeast.
I would not trust any gyro floating gravity measurer.
Once that gravity curve flattens out and stays flat it's done fermenting.
You've bumped the temp for a diacetyl rest so I'd let it fall naturally now and you should see it flocc out.

so far its been accurate, maybe il have to calibrate each time but it is at 1.020 as the pill is saying. I started dropping the temp today. I think i need a ph meter and will be very careful for my next brew

 

[tracer bullet]

I looked back at my notes, and as I sort of remembered, my ESB's tend to finish in the low 1.010's. I think your 1.014 aim is about right. Of course one rarely hits things perfectly but yeah it's in the neighborhood when things go well.

 

[rmr9]

It’s possible that 1968 doesn’t handle fermenting under pressure well. I’m not sure that all yeast strains would. With an expressive strain like 1968 I’m not sure why you’d want to ferment under pressure - you’d cut down on yeast character.

If you want to take a crack at it again, make a small starter with 1968 (or swap it for Imperial pub - this version of the strain has worked worlds better for me) and don’t ferment under pressure. I’d bet you might see some better results.

 

[Nixie]

It’s possible that 1968 doesn’t handle fermenting under pressure well. I’m not sure that all yeast strains would. With an expressive strain like 1968 I’m not sure why you’d want to ferment under pressure - you’d cut down on yeast character.

If you want to take a crack at it again, make a small starter with 1968 (or swap it for Imperial pub - this version of the strain has worked worlds better for me) and don’t ferment under pressure. I’d bet you might see some better results.

Perhaps, once it got going though the spunding valve was hissing nicely, the smell was so nice. I don’t have pub available but I can get the white labs 002, and next time I will try no pressure

 

[duncan_disorderly]

30L is a lot of beer for one smack pack i think even at that OG. And we don't know what state the yeast is in when it reaches us. I suspect that with a starter the beer would have fermented more successfully. An extra job but a very worthwhile one in my opinion. Maximise your chances of a healthy fermentation every time.

 

[Nixie]

30L is a lot of beer for one smack pack i think even at that OG. And we don't know what state the yeast is in when it reaches us. I suspect that with a starter the beer would have fermented more successfully. An extra job but a very worthwhile one in my opinion. Maximise your chances of a healthy fermentation every time.

yep, already have attempt #2 in the chamber! I am still using a spunding valve but have it on very light pressure 2-3psi. I was waaay more patient with the whole process and made a starter this time using WLP002, as my local place was out of 1968, I would like to try the a09 PUB next Time I do a bitter just to see the difference, If this one turns out ok I will replicate but with that one change. But after this is ouit of the fermentor im moving on from Bitter and will try a NZ pilsner!

 

[DuncB]

and will try a NZ pilsner!

That one will do well pressure fermented set the spunding to 15 psi after pitching the yeast and ferment a couple of degrees warmer than you would if open ferment.