harvesting yeast, a new way?

[F_R_O_G]

I've been thinking about the best way to harvest yeast. I have read that the krausen has the most healthy yeast but you run into contaminating the beer that your making. I propose something like this.

you put a copper 1/4inch tube where you would normally put the bubbler. when the krausen is built up you push the cooper tube into the krausen and leave it for a day or 2. as more co2 is produced the krausen gets pushed into your flask. you then have a sanitized way to get good yeast.

now you can all see my great artwork

 

[biodarwin]

Yep, this is called top cropping.

 

[stpug]

And, some strains are better suited to top cropping than are others. Some strains don't produce much krausen to begin with, and what krausen they do create doesn't carry the most viable yeast.

 

[ram5ey]

There's is a great picture of this method in Jamil and White's Yeast book

 

[dyqik]

I've also seen a picture of something like this, either on here or in (Jan/Feb's ?) Zymurgy, using a gallon jug with the blow off tube tight fitting to the top of the jug, and an airlock fitted to a hole in the side. It was called something like "home made Burton Union system". (EDIT: number 3 in the 10 home brew gadgets in the Jan/Feb 2014 issue of Zymurgy - Blowoff Yeast Collector. Actually uses two rubber grommets through the lid of a plastic screw top container to get the tube and the airlock fitted)

The tee is a problem in your setup, as it will almost certainly get blocked if you get a lot of krausen, but by having a separate input to the container you can avoid that.

 

[dyqik]

Here's a thread doing approximately the same thing, with pictures:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/new-yeast-harvesting-experiment-300291/

 

[rodwha]

Or you could make a larger starter and save the remainder.

 

[Yooper]

Top cropping works fine- but keep copper away from beer! It is fine before fermentation, but not once alcohol is present. Copper leaching can make the beer poisonous.

That's why you see copper boil kettles and mash tuns, but never copper serving tanks.

 

[Denny]

Too much effort for too little benefit IMO.

 

[Weezy]

+1 on not dumping all of your starter into the fermenter.

 

[F_R_O_G]

i figured this has been made before, I've just never seen it till now.

the tee has 1/4in and 1/4in going independently to a 3/8in there is no point where pressure will build up in the tee. but I will have to keep an eye on it.

Top cropping works fine- but keep copper away from beer! It is fine before fermentation, but not once alcohol is present. Copper leaching can make the beer poisonous.

That's why you see copper boil kettles and mash tuns, but never copper serving tanks.

what about those that use a copper still?

 

[Yooper]

i figured this has been made before, I've just never seen it till now.

the tee has 1/4in and 1/4in going independently to a 3/8in there is no point where pressure will build up in the tee. but I will have to keep an eye on it.



what about those that use a copper still?

I'm no metallurgist, nor do I have a still, but if you do some research on why you never serve beer in or through copper, I'm sure you can find some good info. Just a quick note from BYO, written by John Palmer:

Copper is a double-edged sword in brewing. It is beneficial before fermentation, but detrimental afterwards. Copper ions react with the hydrogen sulfide produced during fermentation and reduce it to insoluble copper sulfide, which is left behind with the trub and yeast cake.

 

[Weezy]

contact time is an important factor. For transfer only, I wouldn't worry about copper. A few ppm of H2S over a few seconds isn't going to matter.

 

[Denny]

i figured this has been made before, I've just never seen it till now.

the tee has 1/4in and 1/4in going independently to a 3/8in there is no point where pressure will build up in the tee. but I will have to keep an eye on it.



what about those that use a copper still?

The difference is that the pH of fermenting beer is much lower.

 

[Denny]

contact time is an important factor. For transfer only, I wouldn't worry about copper. A few ppm of H2S over a few seconds isn't going to matter.

Actually, brief contact with copper post fermentation has been shown to reduce sulfur in finished beer. There has been quite a discussion about it on the AHA forum.

 

[dyqik]

i figured this has been made before, I've just never seen it till now.

the tee has 1/4in and 1/4in going independently to a 3/8in there is no point where pressure will build up in the tee. but I will have to keep an eye on it.

1/4 in line will almost certainly clog with yeast krausen - I have had 3/8 line clog when set up as a blow-off tube and blow the lid off the fermenter. Krausen is thick foamy viscous goopy stuff - it won't just drop down from the tee under gravity, and the air in the container needs to be vented somewhere else to allow it to drop. Look at the images in Zymurgy or on the thread - you need to let the yeast enter the container through one pipe and vent the air/CO2 out of another through the airlock.

 

[stpug]

Here's someones setup that is better engineered, IMHO.

BUT, my preference is: take the lid off the bucket, scoop out krausen into sanitized jar, put lid back on bucket and jar, done.

 

[Denny]

BUT, my preference is: take the lid off the bucket, scoop out krausen into sanitized jar, put lid back on bucket and jar, done.

Or simply save the slurry post fermentation.

 

[dobe12]

Or simply save the slurry post fermentation.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand there it is! I was about to post the same thing, Denny, but was fully expecting someone else to get to it.

Rack beer off yeast cake. Swirl. Pour into sanitized jars. BOOM! So easy it's scary.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Or simply save the slurry post fermentation.

Haha! i saw the last post was from Denny, so I jumped straight to it to see some sage wisdom from a master......It was not what I expected, but still dead on!

 

[stpug]

Or simply save the slurry post fermentation.

^Definitely the best choice for most yeast strains, and my usual method for most strains.

There are a few that I much prefer top cropping though, like: Westmalle, Odell, Brewferm Blanche, and any other heavy true top fermenting strains. The quality and purity of the yeast pulled from these few strains at high krausen is unmatched, and effort is fairly minimal.

I've got a brew with ringwood 1187 coming up in a few days and I'm hoping to get some good top crop from it as well based on Wyeast's description.

 

[Denny]

^Definitely the best choice for most yeast strains, and my usual method for most strains.

There are a few that I much prefer top cropping though, like: Westmalle, Odell, Brewferm Blanche, and any other heavy true top fermenting strains. The quality and purity of the yeast pulled from these few strains at high krausen is unmatched, and effort is fairly minimal.

I've got a brew with ringwood 1187 coming up in a few days and I'm hoping to get some good top crop from it as well based on Wyeast's description.

I just haven't found enough difference doing it that way to justify the effort. Sure, theoretically there is. But in reality, when I brew my beer, it seems to make no difference.

 

[stpug]

I just haven't found enough difference doing it that way to justify the effort. Sure, theoretically there is. But in reality, when I brew my beer, it seems to make no difference.

Process variations definitely do come into play and your process doesn't justify the effort, that's fair enough. You're right, of course. My worts don't seem to care if they're getting lab grade yeast, slurry yeast, previously frozen yeast, or cropped yeast - the resulting beers always come out good if the process and recipe were good.

As an example of a process that can be simplified by top cropping:
Some folks go through the efforts of boiling water ahead of time; mixing and diluting the yeastcake with said water; waiting until trub settling begins; pouring resulting unflocced yeast into containers. While this process gains you somewhat clean yeast in a questionable solution, it takes a lot more effort than scooping the foam off the top of beer and putting in a sanitized jar.

A process that is complicated by top cropping:
Pouring yeast cake directly into sanitized jars after racking beer to secondary/keg/etc.

But, again, not all yeast strains are suited to top cropping and not all krausens are created equal. Cropping is a tool I use when the circumstances are right and I think it will be beneficial, otherwise, I'm with you, pour cake into jar and seal

 

[F_R_O_G]

looks like i need to revisit a solution for harvesting krausen. I'll have to find some bigger lines. i've never had a blow out but they don't sound any fun.

one thing about the copper is Palmer says that copper is safe for wort and beer. but to be aware of a blue green oxide that is poisonous. I'll probably try to get plastic next time because i don't want to worry about it, but in general copper is safe for beer (from what I have read)

 

[railwalker]

The slurry of us-05 that remains on top of a blonde after the foam subsided looks pretty pure. Before it drops, how much would I want to harvest for a 5 gallon direct pitch? A cup?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Yooper]

looks like i need to revisit a solution for harvesting krausen. I'll have to find some bigger lines. i've never had a blow out but they don't sound any fun.

one thing about the copper is Palmer says that copper is safe for wort and beer. but to be aware of a blue green oxide that is poisonous. I'll probably try to get plastic next time because i don't want to worry about it, but in general copper is safe for beer (from what I have read)

Palmer is a metallurgist, so I won't argue but I never heard him say it was safe for beer and wort. Wort- yes. Beer, no. I have never heard him suggest that using copper for finished beer for serving or in the fermenter is ok.

I can try to remember to ask him the next time I see him, but I'll probably forget as there is generally beer involved.

I'm pretty sure I'll be talking to him at the NHC in mid June. I'll try to ask him, if you remind me!

 

[Yooper]

The slurry of us-05 that remains on top of a blonde after the foam subsided looks pretty pure. Before it drops, how much would I want to harvest for a 5 gallon direct pitch? A cup?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

I'd consider that a pretty pure slurry and use mrmalty.com's yeast pitching calculator and have about 10% be non-yeast. That should get you really close to the optimum pitching amount.

 

[railwalker]

Oh ok, cool calc, thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[F_R_O_G]

I can try to remember to ask him the next time I see him, but I'll probably forget as there is generally beer involved.

I'm pretty sure I'll be talking to him at the NHC in mid June. I'll try to ask him, if you remind me!

haha, I read it from his book how to brew appendix G