Texconsinite
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Wow, that sounds interesting. Whats the parentage of your unilateral?
Growing hops from seed
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WI_Wino
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You have a hop that has raspberry aroma? That sounds very intriguing.
Yeah, red raspberries, it was really strange trying to decide what it was but it finally hit me. Immature plants can do funny things- growth wise, so I hope the oil package continues to develop along those lines as it matures.
Visited the 2016 babies.
These were all seeds a few months ago - and - only about a foot tall back in June. They've all now topped the 16' trellis!
The bird netting seems to have worked wonderfully. Though, I doubt that I'll be able to remove the bines and reuse it next season, which is a shame.
I also spotted a few males. They were bagged, but I suspect it is too late. Looks like I am going to have a 4th generation of seeds to germinate next spring!
These were all seeds a few months ago - and - only about a foot tall back in June. They've all now topped the 16' trellis!
The bird netting seems to have worked wonderfully. Though, I doubt that I'll be able to remove the bines and reuse it next season, which is a shame.
I also spotted a few males. They were bagged, but I suspect it is too late. Looks like I am going to have a 4th generation of seeds to germinate next spring!
How were you able to follow the tops back down to the corresponding plants below? It looks like it was pretty crowded.
Great question - it truly is a tangled mess! We went an alternative route and have been taking cuttings from the most interesting specimens. A few have already rooted.
PapaBearJay
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How is disease holding up in the experimental hops?
Has anyone had any luck using seeds ordered online? I'm assuming they're mostly ornamental seeds. Is an ornamental male worth using? I'm trying to find the best place to get seeds. I've heard of commercial leaf hops with occasional seeds, but I'm not sure it's worth the cost to go that route.
I've found three groups of wild hops here in the past year, none of which contained any seeds. Most likely cluster escaped from farms many years ago.
I've found three groups of wild hops here in the past year, none of which contained any seeds. Most likely cluster escaped from farms many years ago.
I assumed so because of the lack of information some of the websites give. I could just as well be wrong. Do you think it's worth a try?
I found a patch out in Hamilton or Hilton last summer. It was a good find but it was a bit of a bummer not finding seeds.
I found a patch out in Hamilton or Hilton last summer. It was a good find but it was a bit of a bummer not finding seeds.
Could be that they're just gypsies so maybe buy from a more professional looking site? Unfortunately, gypsies can make things look professional while still being gypsies.
I just look at random seedlings that turned into things like Fuggle and more recently Amarillo. It's like finding a needle in a haystack but you can't win if you don't play. I've got one from last year (unknown parentage) that's an absolute beast. Agronomically it looks to be superior in many ways to some of the other commercial varieties that I grow but the biggest issue I see is that the sidearms don't start until about 10 feet up. This may have been due to my training some of the earlier growth, didn't want to take the chance of cutting it all back and then finding out that there were no buds lower on the crown, haha. Just finished drying and ended up with 525g, so a little over a pound from one plant with 3 vines trained.
Aroma very multi-dimensional. Very Simcoe-like to start, with a bunch of pine that dominates along with a bright character (lemon?), some pleasant fruit, maybe pineapple. I have a couple nano's lined up to help with some brewing trials, too much beer for me to brew with all the selections that were harvested.
I just look at random seedlings that turned into things like Fuggle and more recently Amarillo. It's like finding a needle in a haystack but you can't win if you don't play. I've got one from last year (unknown parentage) that's an absolute beast. Agronomically it looks to be superior in many ways to some of the other commercial varieties that I grow but the biggest issue I see is that the sidearms don't start until about 10 feet up. This may have been due to my training some of the earlier growth, didn't want to take the chance of cutting it all back and then finding out that there were no buds lower on the crown, haha. Just finished drying and ended up with 525g, so a little over a pound from one plant with 3 vines trained.
Aroma very multi-dimensional. Very Simcoe-like to start, with a bunch of pine that dominates along with a bright character (lemon?), some pleasant fruit, maybe pineapple. I have a couple nano's lined up to help with some brewing trials, too much beer for me to brew with all the selections that were harvested.
PapaBearJay
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Like B-Hoppy stated, it's all a crapshoot anyways. The way of finding out it to roll the dice. Of course, when it comes to crossing plants, it's a roll of the dice as well.
Hoppy, that sounds awesome. I would like to stumble upon something similar. While I'm not as ambitious as yourself or Jay, I wouldn't mind playing with growing a few and letting selection do its thing until I find a plant that suits me. I have 30 or so plants and i'd like to replace some centennial and chinook with other varieties or home grown crosses.
Thanks for the insight guys. I think i'll give the eBay seeds a shot.
Thanks for the insight guys. I think i'll give the eBay seeds a shot.
Texconsinite
Well-Known Member
Any updates on the Red raspberry one?
It ended up putting out a few ounces short of a pound with some nice cones and good vigor. The raspberry aroma is still present at harvest but won't be able to verify that it will transfer to a beer until it's used.
Vigor and agronomics all look good but the lower sidearms seem to want to go bananas more so than any other variety I've ever dealt with. The lower vegetation was initially stripped around early June. A second huge flush of lower sidearms was stripped in early August. What you see in the pictures is what has grown since then. Most of those are between 3 and 4 feet long. Strange?
Vigor and agronomics all look good but the lower sidearms seem to want to go bananas more so than any other variety I've ever dealt with. The lower vegetation was initially stripped around early June. A second huge flush of lower sidearms was stripped in early August. What you see in the pictures is what has grown since then. Most of those are between 3 and 4 feet long. Strange?
Hop breeding update!
Sorry that it has been so long, but I have been really busy harvesting the experimental hop yard by hand. Now that everything is dried and bagged, I can post some results.
We harvested 31 of the 42 plants in the experimental yard. Any plants that failed to show disease/pest resistance were left behind. There were also several plants that only produced a handful of cones - perhaps they could do better with a year to get established, but who's got time for that?
The 31 plants produced +23lbs of hops, with several individual plants producing +1lbs. Not bad considering that all the young rhizomes were ripped out and transplanted last spring.
The next step is to brew individual SMaSH beers and set up a profile panel. Details can be found here:
gabriel.nagmay.com/2016/08/hop-breeding-2016-results/
Sorry that it has been so long, but I have been really busy harvesting the experimental hop yard by hand. Now that everything is dried and bagged, I can post some results.
We harvested 31 of the 42 plants in the experimental yard. Any plants that failed to show disease/pest resistance were left behind. There were also several plants that only produced a handful of cones - perhaps they could do better with a year to get established, but who's got time for that?
The 31 plants produced +23lbs of hops, with several individual plants producing +1lbs. Not bad considering that all the young rhizomes were ripped out and transplanted last spring.
The next step is to brew individual SMaSH beers and set up a profile panel. Details can be found here:
gabriel.nagmay.com/2016/08/hop-breeding-2016-results/
Nice job! I'm a little bit confused though, you did grow these from seed didn't you? Do you mean the 'crowns' were ripped out or you made cuttings from them and then transplanted?
Sorry - yes, the crowns were ripped out and replanted last spring. The yard is a combination of 2nd and 3rd year crowns that were all transplanted.
Though it has likely already been said, from what I gather, inducing male flowers on female plants will yield diploid pollen, instead of haploid. Crossing it with a normal diploid female will result in very low viable seed yield, and most such seeds will be triploids. Female triploids then share this low compatibility and will produce very few seeds, even in the presence of males. Some seek this, NZ's hop breeding program is pretty much focused on releasing nothing but triploids. But for a long-term amateur breeding project, using polyploids does not seem practical to me.
Interesting. Can you point me to towards a source to verify this? I have sprouted hundreds of seeds from this experiment (over the course of 3 generations) and the germination rates haven't seemed any lower. This is contrary to crosses I have attempted with true triploids, like Mt Hood - where very few seeds developed.
Additionally, I believe that this procedure is commonly used in cannabis - without the effects you are describing.
Well a quick google tells me that offsprings from triploids can have different ploidy levels, so it seems quite possible you might have been lucky and ended up with diploids anyways. Source: http://www.utas.edu.au/plant-scienc...technology/hop-polyploids-in-breeding-honours
This article sums up most of what I had stumbled upon, though again, citing varying results with monoecious specimens: http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/b2012-037#.WAUdMslLenw
This article sums up most of what I had stumbled upon, though again, citing varying results with monoecious specimens: http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/b2012-037#.WAUdMslLenw
Does anyone have a good source for seeds? If so, a pm would be greatly appreciated.
I ordered from two vendors on ebay. First to arrive were beat up, dried out and breaking apart. Second are obviously not hop seeds, just a scam.
I ordered from two vendors on ebay. First to arrive were beat up, dried out and breaking apart. Second are obviously not hop seeds, just a scam.
yanick74
Well-Known Member
Here's one:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/112260923938
Lot 2015 had a very high percentage of germination, and when they produced cones they were very similar to the variety Hallertauer.
You can also look at the cones of hops for beer sometimes bring seeds, the last time 100 grams of cascade got 28 seeds and I already have 5 plants.This would be interesting for rare varieties.
Good luck, if you find seeds of neomexicana let me know!!!
regards!!!!
http://m.ebay.com/itm/112260923938
Lot 2015 had a very high percentage of germination, and when they produced cones they were very similar to the variety Hallertauer.
You can also look at the cones of hops for beer sometimes bring seeds, the last time 100 grams of cascade got 28 seeds and I already have 5 plants.This would be interesting for rare varieties.
Good luck, if you find seeds of neomexicana let me know!!!
regards!!!!
I was told you can have seeds on whole leaf hops, so I decided to give it a try. I ordered almost 30 1oz bags (all different kinds). Didn't open them all, yet, but some had a ton of seeds, many had very few. I didn't try germinating them yet, but I would expect to start doing that within a month or so. I have half a dozen that have been growing for about half a year, but I reckon I should be growing a few hundreds this winter.
Wow - sounds like you are way more lucky than I am. I brew consistently with whole cone hops and have never found fully developed seeds. Regardless, this sounds like a great way to go. You will at least know the mother of each cross. Let us all know how it goes.
Weird, I had replied to this, but the reply seems non-existent. European hops tend to have much more seeds than the american ones, I guess they go less crazy on the whole "seeds=bad" dogma. Many didn't yield many seeds, a few yielded quite a lot. Haven't tested germination yet.
Can you describe what you mean by "cold soaking".
In practice, I have had the best results stratifying hop seeds in damp perlite for 3+ months at refrigerator temps.
ffaoe
Well-Known Member
Seems to me that prolonged submersion would drown the seeds.
Sprouting in water was one of the first things I tried a few years back. Figured that it worked well enough for hops' well-known cousin...
Unfortunatly, the results weren't promising. This doesn't mean that it won't work - I just never have any luck. Cold stratifying in damp vermiculite, on the other hand, worked like a charm.
Let us know if you have different results.
Perlite or vermiculite? Perlite doesn't hold much water.
How do you recover the seeds, without losing a bunch?
I've grown a few hop plants from seeds without stratification, but... very low germination, like 5%. I'm getting ready to start a new lot, but I'll stratify them this time.
ffaoe
Well-Known Member
Perlite or vermiculite? Perlite doesn't hold much water.
How do you recover the seeds, without losing a bunch?
I've grown a few hop plants from seeds without stratification, but... very low germination, like 5%. I'm getting ready to start a new lot, but I'll stratify them this time.
The dark seeds are quite easy to pick out against perlite. Spreading it out a little at a time on paper plates makes for easy work separating the seeds.
Interesting. What are the advantages of this over, say, paper towers? Less (or more) chance to damage rootlets of early germinating seeds?
I've always tested germination (of my non-hop seeds) with paper towers, though I'm not sure I ever grew anything that needed stratification before.
I've always tested germination (of my non-hop seeds) with paper towers, though I'm not sure I ever grew anything that needed stratification before.
ffaoe
Well-Known Member
Other than rootlets breaking, damp paper towels tend to grow mold easily as it's not sterile like perlite.
I've used both with success, but prefer fine vermiculite. As @ffaoe mentioned, the dark seeds show up better on perlite - however, I find that the fresh white roots show up better on the dark vermiculite.
Not holding much water is the point. It is very easy to drown the seeds - especially over the few months needed in the fridge.
Yeah, paper towels are readily available, but horrible for germinating seeds. The tiny, hairy roots are easily damaged as you pull them from the towel. Even with vermiculite, the roots will quickly clamp on to a clump of the volcanic stones - no problem, just plant the entire thing.
ffaoe
Well-Known Member
Planted seedlings today. I got a little over 60% germination rate with 6 week cold stratification in damp perlite.
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