Grounding Question

[nate4g63]

I'm making the conversion to electric brewing. Brewing on my front porch with the wind and elements has run its course. I have an extra kitchen on our 2nd floor, complete with 220, which is now becoming my brewery. As I get ready to buy my elements and controller, I'm still confused on the issue of having the kettle and HLT grounded. I guess my question is even if the elements are plugged into the controller they are not grounded right? I'm buying my elements from High Gravity along with the controller. Im purchasing pre wired elements so will they come ready for me to ground them or will i have to do some disassembly to ground? I keep reading this is so so so important but there really isn't a lot I've come across about doing the grounding. It's all about mounting the elements and that's the easy part. Anyway I hope I wasn't too confusing, thanks for the help in advance.

 

[neild5]

The wired elements are grounded, the 3 wire plug is hot-hot-ground. Since the downside to going electric is electricity and water can be a dangerous combination taking the extra step to ground the kettles is worth it. You still want to protect everything with GFCI.

 

[Chrisl77]

The picture on there website shows a grounding wire attached to the threaded base of the element. How are you attaching it to your kettle? Are you going weldless or going to weld bulkheads onto it? If your going weldless you may want to run a seprate bonding wire from the ground in the controller and maybe attach it to the top of the kettle with a screw.

 

[nate4g63]

I am going weldless. I was wondering if I could just use a self tapping screw on the kettles, so maybe I'll go that route.

 

[neild5]

I am going weldless. I was wondering if I could just use a self tapping screw on the kettles, so maybe I'll go that route.

I would not use a self tapping screw, the sharp point inside the kettle would be an accident waiting to happen. A SS through bolt with an acorn nut would be cleaner.

 

[Chrisl77]

You could as long as its as close as possible to the top lip. I would try to get a stainless steel screw.

 

[MercMan]

You could always do what this guy did. He installed his element though the back of a electrical box then used the green grounding screw inside the box to ground his brew pot.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Installing-a-water-tank-heating-element-in-a-Polar/

 

[trent_77590]

Could you just solder the ground wire to the kettle?

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

You could solder the ground wire, but then you're stuck if you ever need to disconnect the kettle for cleaning or to drill a new hole for some added fitting.

Throw a self tapping screw into the base, below the weld where the bottome connects to the side. Then you don't have to worry about puncturing into the liquid filled area, you don't have to worry about any accidents and pointy screw ends as it's between the base of the keggle and the table top. You can unscrew it if needed, and you're set with grounding.

A point of clarification - the wired elements are NOT grounded as neild5 indicated - most (if not all) elements only have two screw points, for Hot A and Hot B. The ground wire goes to the junction box, and the element is grounded by its contact with the box. The kettle is then grounded by contact with the box and the element. This is not the most secure / sound ground ever. If you're concerned you can check the resistance (ohm setting on your multimeter) between the ground lug in your junction box and the keggle - lower numbers are better. Or just put the screw into the keggle as described above and don't worry about it.

-Kevin

 

[nate4g63]

Thanks for the replys. I think I'll go with a short self tapper in the bottom of the kettle. Pretty excited about this conversion.

 

[MDHarris]

Hey badnews. I looked at the prewired elements that Nate it talking about and they are indeed grounded. There is a third wire connected to the element base. If Nate is using a a weldless fitting then he would only want to make sure to only use the silicone washer inside the kettle and not use the rubber washer that comes with most elements and the base of the element will be held tight against the kettle with the 1 inch locknut. This would offer a very tight bond to the kettle and be all the grounding he would need. Good job neild5 you were right! Good luck Nate

 

[Robar]

I'm going to piggy back the OP on this and say thank you for the info as I was wondering the same thing.

I'm going to do an eKeggle. If I'm understanding this right I can run a single wire for grounding the keggle using the self tapper and the skirt as the connection point back to the neutral bar in the breaker box and be all set, Yes?

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

Hey badnews. I looked at the prewired elements that Nate it talking about and they are indeed grounded. There is a third wire connected to the element base. If Nate is using a a weldless fitting then he would only want to make sure to only use the silicone washer inside the kettle and not use the rubber washer that comes with most elements and the base of the element will be held tight against the kettle with the 1 inch locknut. This would offer a very tight bond to the kettle and be all the grounding he would need. Good job neild5 you were right! Good luck Nate

I stand corrected. The elements I saw while researching my build, including the Camco 4500w and 5500w elements that are quite popular on the board, only have 2 connections and no ground tab. I popped over to HighGravity's website and checked one of their elements and it indeed has 3 tabs. In that case I'd have to guess there's no need to ground the kettle because any issues with the element should ground through that wired ground. The kettle should never become electrified.

In the case of using a 2-wire element, I'd still suggest that screwing a ground to the kettle is the best ground option, unless you can verify that the junction box ground lug has little to no impedience between it and the kettle wall.

Sorry for the confusion!

 

[Bensiff]

I stand corrected. The elements I saw while researching my build, including the Camco 4500w and 5500w elements that are quite popular on the board, only have 2 connections and no ground tab. I popped over to HighGravity's website and checked one of their elements and it indeed has 3 tabs. In that case I'd have to guess there's no need to ground the kettle because any issues with the element should ground through that wired ground. The kettle should never become electrified.

In the case of using a 2-wire element, I'd still suggest that screwing a ground to the kettle is the best ground option, unless you can verify that the junction box ground lug has little to no impedience between it and the kettle wall.

Sorry for the confusion!

If a hot wire came loose for some reason and came in contact with the kettle would the element ground save you? Wouldn't it still be a good idea to run a ground jumper to the kettle still JIC?

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

I suppose anything's possible... The best way to do it is to make sure EVERYTHING is grounded, whether that be to ground each component individually, or to make sure the kettle and the junction box and the element are bonded and thus "one". And I may be using the term "bonded" incorrectly - I just mean to make sure that there's solid connectivity between all of them so if any of the myriad of possible "what if" scenarios happens, and some stray voltage gets some place it shouldn't be - it has a clean path to ground.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

If I'm understanding this right I can run a single wire for grounding the keggle using the self tapper and the skirt as the connection point back to the neutral bar in the breaker box and be all set, Yes?

One point of clarification - you want to run your ground wire to your ground lug. That may be in your control panel, your spa panel, or your breaker box. There's a chance that in your breaker box the ground and neutral share the same bar, there's a chance they don't. It may be symantics at that point, but run the ground to the ground bar, not the neutral bar.

(sorry for the multiple posts, my internet connection is causing havvoc with my posting)

 

[Bensiff]

I suppose anything's possible... The best way to do it is to make sure EVERYTHING is grounded, whether that be to ground each component individually, or to make sure the kettle and the junction box and the element are bonded and thus "one". And I may be using the term "bonded" incorrectly - I just mean to make sure that there's solid connectivity between all of them so if any of the myriad of possible "what if" scenarios happens, and some stray voltage gets some place it shouldn't be - it has a clean path to ground.

Yeah there is just something that makes me nervous to trust my life to a 10 gauge hot wire held in place by a little screw.

 

[MDHarris]

I know people get overly cautious when installing their electrical components and wiring, for good reason. But grounding and bonding are easy to take care of without adding additional wires that will only be in the way and look weird (my opinion). If you are using a 240 volt element there are two "hot" wires and one grounding wire. This ground wire does not run the element and is not meant for anything other than grounding the equipment that the element is installed in. So to me, installing another ground wire is too much. I use a box to encase my element connection ,like lots of others, and there is a green screw inside the box that is only there to terminate the ground wire onto. If you really want to attach a grounding wire to the skirt of your kettle then instead of running an additional wire back to your control box or panel then one option is tighing onto the ground wire that is already in your elements junction box and you will only need a few inches of wire. To reach your kettle skirt. For my kettle the ground wire is screwed to the metal junction box and the metal junction box is bolted to the kettle with a 1" metal locknut that is holding the metal element base. My kettle, element base



and junction box are "one" if a hot wire twere to come loose and touch any part of my kettle the gfci and overcurent protection (breaker) would trip. For me ,and our electrical code, there is no need for the additional grounding wire but if it helps you feel safer while brewing then I say go for it.

 

[Robar]

Thanks for the info guys. I know it seems like a lot of us are a little over cautious and panicy. For me it's that I know just enough about things electrical to be dangerous. After all I've ran wire in my own house wired my old garage with 110 & 220, installed lights and ceiling fans, etc. The thing is none of them were steel pots full of liquid wired 220 that I'll be sticking my hands into.

But again, thanks for the patience and clarification.

 

[nate4g63]

I'm on the same page as you Robar!

 

[MercMan]

I know people get overly cautious when installing their electrical components and wiring, for good reason. But grounding and bonding are easy to take care of without adding additional wires that will only be in the way and look weird (my opinion). If you are using a 240 volt element there are two "hot" wires and one grounding wire. This ground wire does not run the element and is not meant for anything other than grounding the equipment that the element is installed in. So to me, installing another ground wire is too much. I use a box to encase my element connection ,like lots of others, and there is a green screw inside the box that is only there to terminate the ground wire onto. If you really want to attach a grounding wire to the skirt of your kettle then instead of running an additional wire back to your control box or panel then one option is tighing onto the ground wire that is already in your elements junction box and you will only need a few inches of wire. To reach your kettle skirt. For my kettle the ground wire is screwed to the metal junction box and the metal junction box is bolted to the kettle with a 1" metal locknut that is holding the metal element base. My kettle, element base

View attachment 153250

and junction box are "one" if a hot wire twere to come loose and touch any part of my kettle the gfci and overcurent protection (breaker) would trip. For me ,and our electrical code, there is no need for the additional grounding wire but if it helps you feel safer while brewing then I say go for it.

I've seen a lot of ways to mount a element on this site, some even go out of their way to cover everything in PVC pipe and silicone calk, but the electrical box in your post seems like the perfect solution. Do you have instructions or a link to some online instructions?

 

[Bensiff]

The thing is none of them were steel pots full of liquid wired 220 that I'll be sticking my hands into.

Now there is a reason to swap my stainless spoon for a plastic one.