Greenlee ruined my brew pot, looking at new kettles

[Jbrew]

So, I wanted to add a ball valve to my bayou 40 qt pot. I started with a 1/8" cobalt bit, then moved to a 1/2"step bit. The pot drilled very easy with the step bit, and when I got to end of it, I thought to myself, maybe I should finish it with the next size step bit, but figured the greenlee is supposed to make a very nice hole. So I went ahead with the greenlee punch, and you can see the resulting hole. I'm guessing because the pot is so thin. Its one of the lowes bayou classic pots for $60.
So I cleaned up the hole and I figured I'd put it together anyway, maybe ill get lucky and it won't leak. But sure enough, it does, as I suspected. I might solder a spud on it, maybe ill be able to get it to seal.
In any case, the wife noticed my extreme frustration and disappointment and said that was my starter pot and told me to spend the money and pick out a nice brew kettle. The temptation she's created has caused me to start shopping around.

So my questions are:
Do you guys think soldering a spud on might seal that crack on the side of the hole? Even if i get a new kettle, I would like to really try and save this one, having an extra kettle would be good to have.

And

If i buy a new kettle, I'm considering 15 gallons, because id like to do 10 gallon batches eventually, and an electric brewing setup eventually. But my stove at the moment can barely boil 5 gallon batches. Is there any drawbacks to doing 5 gallon batches in a 15 gallon kettle? And do you guys have any suggestions towards kettles? I haven't shopped around that much. I do like the spike kettles. Whichever I buy, if I do, id like to have welded on spuds right out of the box.
Thanks guys for any input.

 

[imasickboy]

Since you're doing stovetop right now, I'd just go with a 10 gallon aluminum. They're cheap, without being cheap, and it'll serve you well until you're ready to upgrade your entire operation. The more pot you have hanging off the stovetop burner surface, the less efficient the heat transfer will be, so I'd be worried taht a 15 gallon pot might be too wide for your burner.

Check out something like this at amazon, and aluminum is crazy easy to drill, so almost no worry about problems like you had already:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000X1MG1M/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Stealthcruiser]

I'm looking!

I don't see a "cleaned up hole", nor the "crack on the side" of the hole.

What I can make out, looks quite salvageable.

 

[Jbrew]

Im thinking it is salvageable, with the right tools. If you look at the picture, you can see where the greenlee punch pulled the metal and got stuck in the die rather then cutting it. I dont think it was so much the greenlee, as much as its the fact that the pot is so thin. How to go about fixing it though? I mounted the ball valve and its so flexible on there, regardless of the crack, i think it will be easily bumped and end up leaking, so i think the only options now are welding or soldering a spud on.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Ya that hole "looks" like it can be cleaned up.
As for a new pot I would skip aluminum and get SS. I bought an aluminum pot and it looks and feels cheesy. I bought a SS to replace it and haven't looked back. Especially if your modifying it.

If your thinking of going to 10 gallons don't waste your time on 15 gallon pot. You need all of 20 gallons for a 10 gallon batch. ZERO chance your fitting a 20 gallon pot on a stove top. Its HUGE. I cant see 15 gallons working either.
If your thinking of going 10 gallon electric why not just start out with it now and be done forever. Its easier than you think to build a controller, and pretty cheap. Start to finish its a one day project including modifying the pot. My 20 gallon Ebay Concord pot will last forever. Keep in mind youll need 30 amps to run it

 

[augiedoggy]

So, I wanted to add a ball valve to my bayou 40 qt pot. I started with a 1/8" cobalt bit, then moved to a 1/2"step bit. The pot drilled very easy with the step bit, and when I got to end of it, I thought to myself, maybe I should finish it with the next size step bit, but figured the greenlee is supposed to make a very nice hole. So I went ahead with the greenlee punch, and you can see the resulting hole. I'm guessing because the pot is so thin. Its one of the lowes bayou classic pots for $60.
So I cleaned up the hole and I figured I'd put it together anyway, maybe ill get lucky and it won't leak. But sure enough, it does, as I suspected. I might solder a spud on it, maybe ill be able to get it to seal.
In any case, the wife noticed my extreme frustration and disappointment and said that was my starter pot and told me to spend the money and pick out a nice brew kettle. The temptation she's created has caused me to start shopping around.

So my questions are:
Do you guys think soldering a spud on might seal that crack on the side of the hole? Even if i get a new kettle, I would like to really try and save this one, having an extra kettle would be good to have.

And

If i buy a new kettle, I'm considering 15 gallons, because id like to do 10 gallon batches eventually, and an electric brewing setup eventually. But my stove at the moment can barely boil 5 gallon batches. Is there any drawbacks to doing 5 gallon batches in a 15 gallon kettle? And do you guys have any suggestions towards kettles? I haven't shopped around that much. I do like the spike kettles. Whichever I buy, if I do, id like to have welded on spuds right out of the box.
Thanks guys for any input.

I had no issues with my bayou pots.. I even used the cheaper HF punches.. the hole had the slightly bent edge I fixed with a file by removing the burr

 

[eric19312]

I’ve done many 10 gal batches in 15 gallon pot. Started with 10 gal pot doing 5 gallon batches. Started brewing with a friend used 15 gal brew kettle, 77 qt ice chest mash tun, 10 gal pot became hlt. Moved to 15 gal kettle mash tun with full false bottom and retired the cooler. Just recently got a spike 20 gal bk so I can do 15 gal batches. Retired the 10 gal hlt and moved the bk to hlt. For big beers I will stay with 10 gal batches cause thAts about all I can mash but that’s plenty of big beer anyway. First 3 kettles were all bayou classic with weldless fittings I added from brewhardware.com. The 20 gal is a spike and it is really really nice upgrade from bayou.

I’d not invest in expensive kettle now that will be too small for future applications. I got over 150 batches out of the bayou classic kettles and they are still quite functional. I’d fix the kettle you have and focus on moving your brew day out of the kitchen.

 

[DarkStarNJ]

Whatever your doing practice a few times on something you dont care about.

I punched holes in my jarhill kettles with Harbor freight punches. Trust me the greenlee is a much nicer piece of kit. The HF dies looked like they were machined by bunch of chimpanzees. If the hole doesn't look like its going in straight back out some readjust. Go Slow dont just crank through like a dump truck....


You hole can almost certainly be sealed. Clean it up. Your not trying to use a weldless fitting with that crap all there are ya? Use some snips to remove the piece hanging off.

Not sure what your hole size is but something like this from bobby should seal it up no problem:

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/tc15rsf.htm

 

[Dcpcooks]

Going forward you only want to drill a pilot hole for a punch. I think the reason you had problems was the use of the step bit. It made the hole larger and that limited what the punch could grab on the edges.

You can clean it up with a file and or snips and a bit of Emory cloth and it should seal up nicely.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Going forward you only want to drill a pilot hole for a punch. I think the reason you had problems was the use of the step bit. It made the hole larger and that limited what the punch could grab on the edges.

You can clean it up with a file and or snips and a bit of Emory cloth and it should seal up nicely.

This ^^^

I think a pot too thin for a real Greenlee punch would collapse under it's own weight. A clumsy off-shore copy and an off-center, oversize pilot hole are the likely culprits here.

A pair of ss fender washers and an o-ring big enough to surround the hole and cracks will probably get you by. Put the o-ring on the inside and never ever dry-fire. Use some automotive grade silicone goo under the bolt head. Wipe it down before it sets up so the epa doesn't get us.

 

[Jbrew]

Thanks for the reply guys. According to the greenlee box, it said 1/2" pilot hole for the 1/2" conduit punch which makes a 7/8 hole. So I started with a 1/8 bit, then moved onto my step bit to make the 1/2" pilot hole for the greenlee screw to fit thru. I went no larger then the 1/2". But I will say that the 1/2" hole seemed a bit larger then the greenlee bolt, allowing the bolt to move inside the hole a bit. I then installed the greenlee on the pot, and with just a socket on the bolt (no socket wrench), i was able to pull the punch thru the pot most of the way just by twisting it by hand, it wasnt till the very end that I had to put a wrench on it.
Yes I was trying to use a weldless fitting originally, but that was with the hopes of having a nice clean hole. I'm using o rings but the crack extends beyond the o ring, allowing it to leak, I have considered that some rubber or silicone washers may fix it, but I worry that my not be a reliable fix.
I have some sta brite solder and flux on order and will attempt or solder a spud or coupler on.
Agreed i wont buy a real expensive kettle right now as I just dont have the heating capacity for 15 gallons yet. Id like to move my brewing to the basement, thus requiring proper ventilation and electric heating.
Thanks again everyone.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Solder will fix it. Just hesitated to suggest it, never know if I'm talking to an experienced tool user, or soft handed office worker who is'nt clear on which end of a screwdriver to hold.

They other day I told a fellow building a brew stand that he was fortunate that his employer permits personal projects. He responded that it's pretty easy when you are the plant manger. Good luck.

 

[Jbrew]

Lol. Im a fleet mechanic. No stranger to tools, that being said, lve never soldered stainless yet, but I've done copper pipe sweating and my reading suggests this really isnt too much different. I've watched a couple videos, and searched a bit so I'm think im ready. Besides. Cant really screw it up anymore then it is.
Thanks

 

[ancientmariner52]

I think I've been trying to give a shark swimming lessons. Wastes my time and annoys the shark. Carry on.

 

[jwelch1103]

I'd throw it away and consider the $60 as "tuition".
The picture appears to show a warping around the opening and if that is the case it likely will make the soldering problematic at least since soldering works best with a close fit between pieces. In this case the close fit needs to be between the shoulder of the spud and the outside surface of the pot. With the curvature of the pot you start a job like this with less than ideal fit anyway and any additional warping can make the fit even worse.
Not exactly the same thing here but this reminds me of the design/fabrication dilemma: Cheap, Good, or Fast. You can only pick two.

 

[Jbrew]

Understood. But i already have the solder and flux on its way, so what have I got to lose. If the warping or gap proves to be a problem, im thinking I could use a bolt with a washer thru the spud and a fender washer on in the inside of the pot to try and pull everything together.

 

[augiedoggy]

You can always just make the hole bigger and use a weldless tri clamp adapter...

 

[Jbrew]

I had thought about going bigger but figured I would have a tough time finding ss bulkhead fittings bigger then the 1/2" size, however I didn't know the tri clamp bulkheads were that much larger. Ive seen the tri clamps, but really didn't know much about them. Thank you for the tip. If the soldering is a bust, I might just do that. The tri clamp bulkhead allow for a heating element to be clamped in, correct?

 

[MaxStout]

If you haven't found it already, here is a neat tutorial on silver soldering. I've added several spuds to kettles, it's not terribly difficult. Silver soldering requires a little more patience than sweating copper pipe. The solder has a slightly higher melting point than plumbing solder, as it has around 6% silver content. Use the liquid flux, NOT the paste. Getting all the parts thoroughly cleaned and degreased is key. The small pencil-tip propane torches may not provide enough heat. A bigger propane torch, or MAPP gas torch will do fine.

The "welding spuds" have tapered thread, which means you can thread on the drain valve, but not thread anything on the inside, like a dip tube, bazooka screen, etc.

 

[ancientmariner52]

If the spuds are 1/2" pipe size, you can often tap them 3/8" nptf on the inside. Not enough metal for full threads, but fine in an unpressurized system.

 

[ChelisHubby]

I would see if the wife will allow you to buy a burner and a pot so you can brew with ease. Now if you think that 10 gallon batches is the future then definitely buy a 20 gallon pot. !

 

[fragged]

I would see if the wife will allow you to buy a burner and a pot so you can brew with ease. Now if you think that 10 gallon batches is the future then definitely buy a 20 gallon pot. !

I second this. 20 gallon pot and a burner, unless you are either A) Set up for 3 tier, B) Super content with extract after giving up all grain, C) Same as b, but partial mash.

Burners are cheap, tell the wife it'll get you out of her kitchen. If that doesn't work, you need to start making bigger messes man.

That is, unless you're ready to go electric, but I've been calculating that lately and it adds up. (Indoors) Vent, fan, 5500w element, controller, fittings, wire, etc.... I'll piece mine together and stick with my burner and 17 gallon pot (hence my 20g rec for you).

As for this pot, I'd agree it's salvageable. What fun is that though??

 

[Jbrew]

A shiny new kettle does indeed sound enticing, but regardless, even if I buy a new kettle, id like to not throw this one out. So, if I can fix it with very little invested additionally, then ill keep it.
I am a BIAB brewer, and I dont know that id ever go to a 3 tier system. Just don't want to have to store and clean more equipment. So I'm guessing with BIAB brewing, a 20 gallon is a must, as a 10 gallon grain bill is at least double the size of a 5 gallon batch, especially if its a bigger beer.
I have thought about getting a burner, but brewing outdoors in the winter doesn't sound very fun, I'm still giving it some thought though. Brewing indoors creates a lot of humidity which I'm sure isn't good for the house.

 

[fragged]

All spot on, though brewing in the garage in Michigan isn't that terrible.

I BIAB too, 17 gallons is just a little too small. I don't really brew 10 gallons of big beers usually, as I just won't drink those that quickly. If I wanted to age a big beer, personally I'd just make 2 batches, but there are some other options as well.

Smaller beers such as pale ale, I have about an inch of room at the top once 21 lbs of grain is in there mashing.

 

[Jbrew]

So, i guess might be eating my words about only doing BIAB. I ended up getting a used 10 gallon anvil kettle, but with the kettle I got a bayou propane burner, 20lb tank, counter flow chiller, a 10 gallon cooler mash tun, and a fermonster and some misc. pieces. I mainly wanted the kettle and burner, but the extra equipment really made it worth it to go for it and wait a bit more before moving to a 20 gallon kettle.
The kettle he had added a second ball valve for whirlpooling with a pump. So ill be researching a bit about the whirlpooling technique, and I need to get a pump now, but Im excited to try a different brewing method than what I'm used too.

I still will try to fix my other 10 gallon kettle and try to use that as a HLT.
Thanks all for the suggestions and support.

 

[augiedoggy]

I had thought about going bigger but figured I would have a tough time finding ss bulkhead fittings bigger then the 1/2" size, however I didn't know the tri clamp bulkheads were that much larger. Ive seen the tri clamps, but really didn't know much about them. Thank you for the tip. If the soldering is a bust, I might just do that. The tri clamp bulkhead allow for a heating element to be clamped in, correct?

correct, I didnt have the correct size punch for my tc so I used a smaller one and used a half round metal file to increase the hole size carefully to fit the adapter I used for my element
BTW if you use gas you want a 20 gallon for 10 gallon brews as mentioned but if you plan on brewing indoors with electric 15 gallon kettles are plenty big enough for 10-11 gallon brews because you can avoid the boilover easily.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Yes I was trying to use a weldless fitting originally, but that was with the hopes of having a nice clean hole. I'm using o rings but the crack extends beyond the o ring, allowing it to leak, I have considered that some rubber or silicone washers may fix it, but I worry that my not be a reliable fix.

Grab two 1/2 flat silicone gaskets or two of the large red flat silicone gaskets from Bargain Fittings and a pair of 1/2 NPT flange nuts or larger stainless fender washers like ancientmariner52 suggested. There should be more than enough clamping area to cover the crack. Or you could go up to 3/4" threadless - but going bigger jumps the price a bit.

To your other comments:
I do five gallon batches in a 15 gallon keggle all the time - just did one yesterday. If you want to go electric eventually I would suggest a flat-bottom pot since it would allow you to put an element closer to the bottom compared to a keggle. (Note: please source your keggles responsibly - don't steal them).

 

[nh_homebrew]

I have a similar problem. the onebit drill I used was really dull and I didn't know enough to realize it, and got super hot while drilling. And torqued, creating a crack. Perhaps I just need to flatten the edge? It doesn't start leaking until the water is hot/warm.

 

[augiedoggy]

I have a similar problem. the onebit drill I used was really dull and I didn't know enough to realize it, and got super hot while drilling. And torqued, creating a crack. Perhaps I just need to flatten the edge? It doesn't start leaking until the water is hot/warm.

I would get a file and clean up that edge then buy a wide flat silicone gasket and use that when installing the weldless fitting... either that or buy a hole punch kit from someplace like harbor freight, I have one I now use for all my holes. Ive punched about 25 now with it and the tips are still sharp some in mild steel panels and some in stainless so YMMV.

 

[day_trippr]

If that's a stainless kettle you could push that splinter back in place then use silver solder to fill the crack...

Cheers!

 

[Dland]

Some of the 1/2 NPT though hulls have a bigger outer diameter than others. Or you could get a 3/4 NPT though hull and adapt down. McMaster-Carr has bigger OD 1/2NPT though hulls than most of the beer equipment places, and they would have 3/4 in also.

I use a 3/4 inch drive smaller socket as a dibble and push though with nuts and washer on a threaded rod or long bolt, big socket as receiver. A slight dibble makes it easier for to silver solder to stay in place while working. I found using a flux designed for stainless works much better than Stayclean or other plumning/HVAC fluxes.

If you have a Turbo Torch, you can also use bronze phosphor or silver brazing rod, ig Dynaflow, StaySilv flux works. Or MIG it of course, but that takes more practice.

Anyway, above methods work on beer kegs, if the kettle's gauge is too thin, it might be different.

 

[LarMoeCur]

I don't see anything that a ball pein hammer, file, and small piece of wood can't fix. Hold a piece of wood to the outside of the hole. Give the inside a few taps where it's pushed in. Key word was TAPS, do not wack it. Work the taps in small circles around the hole it will flatten easily back out. You may have to switch the wood to the inside and taps to the outside. Use the file to clean up the edges and solder it!

Or do what Auggiedoggy said...but do not throw it away. It can be easily saved!