Grainfather Kickstarter

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Just thought of another question - the NZ version's got a mash and a boil toggle to go between the 500w heat and the 2,000w heat.

Is the US version going to have the same, but just 500/1,600? or will it not have a switch, and always go at 1,600?
 
Just thought of another question - the NZ version's got a mash and a boil toggle to go between the 500w heat and the 2,000w heat.

Is the US version going to have the same, but just 500/1,600? or will it not have a switch, and always go at 1,600?

And as a follow-on to that question, especially if it's always at 1600w, is the controller a PID-type to compensate for temperature swings, or is it a simple on/off thermostat?
 
And as a follow-on to that question, especially if it's always at 1600w, is the controller a PID-type to compensate for temperature swings, or is it a simple on/off thermostat?

It's the same as the NZ/AUS model with the exception of a 1600w element, and since there isn't a PID, I'd assume it's a toggle switch. Sounds like a PID may be a down the road upgrade.
 
Just thought I'd answer one of these questions here as a few have asked the same question:

The US units will have the element variation switch like the NZ version. The difference will be the wattage - 1600/500w.
 
I guess I'm of two minds on it. On the one hand, yes, it's a lighter boil, no question about it. On the other hand, I've done enough reading on this topic since picking up this hobby to know what sorts of side effects a lighter boil can create, and I'm still not entirely convinced that those side effects are legitimate concerns anyone could detect in a batch of homebrew.

The most common things are DMS, lack of hop isomerization, and even beer clarity. (source*) The DMS argument is the flimsiest of the bunch IMO. Clarity can be countered with a fining agent in the boil or later in the fermenter. The hop isomerization argument is the one which seems to have solid science supporting it, and is a very fair counter to the opinion that light boils have no side effects, but I haven't come across any research which seems to communicate the sort of utilization hit one would take by failing to reach a rolling boil for the duration, or again, if any of us could do a blind A/B test and tell which pint was borne of a rolling boil vs a lighter boil.

If the product cannot boil high gravity beer as it claims throughout the promotional material, it's an $800 HLT and they're going to be issuing refunds to a bunch of early adopters due to false advertising. Basically the worst thing a company can do when trying to get a foothold into a huge market.

* the article I linked is already showing its age quite a bit (HSA, not desiring overly bitter hop profiles, etc) but the research is thorough and a great jumping-off point in the conversation.
Heya, I know you've already pledged and thanks so much :)! But still want to answer your questions about the boil.
Any concerns about a light boil would be for a boil when all you can see is some bubbles rising to the top. This is a light boil compared to our other units but not a light boil as far as the boiling you need for brewing goes. Just wanted to put your mind at ease.

We've been in the brewing industry for years so have considered such things and have had commercial brewers help test prototypes etc with us, we certainly don't want to offer a sub par unit!

Thanks
 
Grainfather, what volume boil is that? Appears to be a fair amount of headspace. 7 gallons?

I was iffy at first but this is a rolling boil still, even if it's on the lighter end. I'd also guess that due to the geometry of the kettle, carefully wrapping the unit in a reflective insulation would help retain extra heat, and likely lead to a more vigorous boil. Seems to be a lot of support out there showing insulation can make a big difference. It would still be nice to be able to run a 2000w version on a 20 amp circuit.
Yes this is 7 Gal in there at the moment (for 5 Gal final volume). The head space is for if you'd prefer to make more (6 Gal final volume) and also to avoid boil overs.
 
A user on the Kickstarter page posed a very interesting question about offering an insulated sleeve made specifically for the Grainfather, to help increase heating efficiency which should shorten ramp times and increase the boil off rate. Is this something you would consider making? There is quite a bit of feedback online that reflective type insulation has very measurable benefits in the way of heat retention when it is used to wrap an electric fired kettle. A custom wrap would also look a lot cooler than something fabricated at home. :)
 
A user on the Kickstarter page posed a very interesting question about offering an insulated sleeve made specifically for the Grainfather, to help increase heating efficiency which should shorten ramp times and increase the boil off rate. Is this something you would consider making? There is quite a bit of feedback online that reflective type insulation has very measurable benefits in the way of heat retention when it is used to wrap an electric fired kettle. A custom wrap would also look a lot cooler than something fabricated at home. :)
Heya, We have thought about this and are also looking into this. Once again though too early to confirm anything on that. But keep the feedback coming :)
 
One other thing that has surprised me is the amount of people requesting a 220v model. Isn't the appeal here the ability to run on a 120v circuit? There's several 220v models out already that for a few hundred more have 3x the power and can do up to 15 gallon batches.
 
One other thing that has surprised me is the amount of people requesting a 220v model. Isn't the appeal here the ability to run on a 120v circuit?

Agreed, I think this is a great option for apartment and condo dwellers, with limited space and running on regular current.
 
Since I haven't seen it mentioned on this thread yet, Congratulations to the Grainfather crew for already having $60k pledged for your $50k goal with about two weeks still to go! :mug:

I'll second that, pretty impressive for a device I don't think many stateside even knew about until a few weeks ago. I went from never considering a system like this due to cost (see picobrew or braumeister) to ordering one and selling off the parts I had assembled to do my own electric build.
 
Would love to get a BeerSmith2 equipment profile for this before it comes out. Did a little searching and it seems it may be difficult to generate one because the softwares formulas don't really adapt to single vessel systems too well. I'm wondering if a BIAB profile would be sufficient or if would throw efficiency numbers off because mash/sparge. Thoughts?
 
My plan was to adapt the Biab setting, you can mess around with the efficiency numbers manually so should not be an issue.

Dave

Would love to get a BeerSmith2 equipment profile for this before it comes out. Did a little searching and it seems it may be difficult to generate one because the softwares formulas don't really adapt to single vessel systems too well. I'm wondering if a BIAB profile would be sufficient or if would throw efficiency numbers off because mash/sparge. Thoughts?
 
Would love to get a BeerSmith2 equipment profile for this before it comes out. Did a little searching and it seems it may be difficult to generate one because the softwares formulas don't really adapt to single vessel systems too well. I'm wondering if a BIAB profile would be sufficient or if would throw efficiency numbers off because mash/sparge. Thoughts?

I just did an "Add-On" for Beersmith with a equipment profile for Grainfather to download.
 
I'm pretty excited for this system. I'm one who requested a 220V system. I have several reasons. First, I already have a really powerful outlet I use to charge my two electric cars. Second, my wife hates the smell of beer brewing so I usually brew in the garage or outside. Third, since they chose to use a 1600W element vs the 2kW I figured I wouldn't have to give up anything with a 220V system.

I know I sit in a unique situation having the powerful outlets already. I believe they could still make a system that uses both voltages quite easily, without having to spend too much to make the adjustment.

I'm still very excited for this unit even if it remains the 1600W. I look forward to more automation. I love to brew but being a father means I don't have the time I used to.
 
I have two functional concerns that may end up being a big deal. First, can we batch sparge in this unit? Second, I know not many people are too concerned about hot side aeration, but that's a lot of port splashing when you first pull the green basket out of the cattle and it drops the whole length of the unit.
 
I have two functional concerns that may end up being a big deal. First, can we batch sparge in this unit? Second, I know not many people are too concerned about hot side aeration, but that's a lot of port splashing when you first pull the green basket out of the cattle and it drops the whole length of the unit.

It pretty much is BIAB with recirc...so all the same rules and limitations apply.
 
I would like to know how this system handles pellet hops. Will it clog the pump? Do I have to use a hops bag?
We commonly use hop pellets in NZ so the Grainfather is used to that sort of thing. There is a good pump filter so you don't need to worry about hop debris. We also don't use hop bags or hop spiders generally at Grainfather, but that is of course up to your personal preference. We feel you get a better circulation when it is not in a bag.
 
did my first brew on the grainfather on sunday. 40g of hop pellets and with no whirlpool (was in a hurry) had a fair amount of hop buildup on the filter however the wort still pushed through no problems, just a bit slower.

great bit of kit, very easy to use. clear wort, great efficiency. easy cleanup. winwinwinwin
 
I'm really interested in scrapping my own plans for an electric setup for something like this or the Braumeister with what I've been reading.

For such a price-point my only hesitation remains with some of the comments earlier - 1600W can boil 7-8 gallons? (at least enough?)

Are there options to purchase the 2000W version and I can make the appropriate adjustments on my end? For the Braumeister, for instance, I was planning on getting a step-up transformer to tackle 220V.
 
I'm really interested in scrapping my own plans for an electric setup for something like this or the Braumeister with what I've been reading.

For such a price-point my only hesitation remains with some of the comments earlier - 1600W can boil 7-8 gallons? (at least enough?)

Are there options to purchase the 2000W version and I can make the appropriate adjustments on my end? For the Braumeister, for instance, I was planning on getting a step-up transformer to tackle 220V.

I had never even though of that. So in theory, I think something like this should work. Shipping from NZ to the US seems cost prohibitive though, but perhaps not.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CLYMMCC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 
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I had never even though of that. So in theory, I think something like this should work. Shipping from NZ to the US seems cost prohibitive though, but perhaps not.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CLYMMCC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Keep in mind, that you still would need 2 KW + some overhead for the transformer. I'm thinking that you really wouldn't want a circuit with less than 3KW, which means that at 120v you would need a 25A circuit. A 20A 120v circuit would only be 2.4KW, which might not be enough, and your standard 15A 120v would definitely not work. In most cases, it would make more sense to have the proper 220v circuit run to where you want to use this than to use a transformer like that.

That particular transformer looks suspect to me as well. It has a NEMA 5-15 plug, which is only rated for 15A. You would need a NEMA 5-30 plug for a device that pulls up to 25A.
 
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Keep in mind, that you still would need 2 KW + some overhead for the transformer. I'm thinking that you really wouldn't want a circuit with less than 3KW, which means that at 120v you would need a 25A circuit. A 20A 120v circuit would only be 2.4KW, which might not be enough, and your standard 15A 120v would definitely not work. In most cases, it would make more sense to have the proper 220v circuit run to where you want to use this than to use a transformer like that.

That particular transformer looks suspect to me as well. It has a NEMA 5-15 plug, which is only rated for 15A. You would need a NEMA 5-30 plug for a device that pulls up to 25A.

That's a fair point, and a lot of workaround to pick up 400 watts. It would have been plugged into a 20amp circuit, which should be enough, but, who knows if you'd actually be pushing 2000w to the unit itself.

Based on all the feedback I've seen from users of 120v electric systems, I still think insulating the unit should yield dividends in shorter ramp times and a better boil. Much easier to do as well.
 
The transformer I had in mind was this one.

From what I've read that should be more than enough and last for at least a few years.

But, after doing some more research on my end, I've decided that this price is too good to pass up considering my own plans of an electric setup had costs that tallied slightly less than this system. I'm hoping a creation of a sleeve/jacket can make up some ground on the boil.

The only downside now is the wait... Here's hoping to a faster delivery date :mug:
 
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The transformer I had in mind was this one.

From what I've read that should be more than enough and last for at least a few years.

But, after doing some more research on my end, I've decided that this price is too good to pass up considering my own plans of an electric setup had costs that tallied slightly less than this system. I'm hoping a creation of a sleeve/jacket can make up some ground on the boil.

The only downside now is the wait... Here's hoping to a faster delivery date :mug:
The transformer linked there says it's a 220v input and 120/220v output, so you would not be able to use 120v input power and a 220v output.

Standard 120v 15a power is 1800W max. 120v 20A is 2400W max. There is no getting around that. The description on the transformer above even says you would want 1.5x the wattage of what you want to use on the output, so to power a 2000W Grainfather you would need 3000W input power, which would be 25A on 120v. I have never seen >20A 120v circuits anywhere (they do exist, just not common). Higher wattage circuits are almost always 220v, as in the ones for electric stoves and clothes dryers. In other words, these transformers are uncommon because they are useful only in unusual circumstances.
 
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Well, the Kickstarter funded at almost 3x the original goal, looks like 147 units total. Congrats to everyone who got in. It's gonna be a long 3 (hopefully) months waiting to brew on this thing the first time.
 
Thanks for the info TallDan. That actually makes me feel even better about my Grainfather.
 
Will it need a 20 amp circuit? It's hard to get a good boil using 15a 110v, but if you succeeded that'd be awesome.

Full automation is a key feature for me. I currently have a BrewTroller but it's flaky and I'm in the market for a replacement. I'd also like automated sparge water. Of course I expect to pay for these privileges.
 
Will it need a 20 amp circuit? It's hard to get a good boil using 15a 110v, but if you succeeded that'd be awesome.

Full automation is a key feature for me. I currently have a BrewTroller but it's flaky and I'm in the market for a replacement. I'd also like automated sparge water. Of course I expect to pay for these privileges.

Well, then, pretty much nothing listed about this system meets your (real or perceived) needs. You might want to read the earlier posts.


This is basically a 15 amp recirculating BIAB system with text alerts. The automation is limited to hitting manually entered setpoints...one setpoint at a time.
 
Ah, sorry about that, was reading on a phone and missed that this was page 8! My second paragraph was intended as product feedback - I know the current product doesn't have those options, but they were mentioned as possibilities for future developments, so I was letting the builders know that I for one am interested.
 
How long does it take to bring wort to boil for 5 gal?

I just got an updated email from them, they put the US version through some tests @ US 110v/60Hz, this was the result:

- Time to strike temp was 34min
- Time to boil was 57min
- Overall brew time from start to finish was about 4.5 hours.

I imagine that the strike/boil times could be reduced by insulating the kettle.
 
One more thing to note on their update is that the boil off rate was 7.24%. I believe you want something around 8%. I think that's pretty good for 1600 W.
 
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