Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[veeellgee]

So finished mine up, kegged and force carbonated in time for Festivus on the 23rd.
Came out at 5.8% and quite delicious if I don't say so myself... well actually the fact that 5 gallons of this has already been consumed in the past 5 days says it for me

 

[Stuntman]

With age, this stuff keeps getting better! I have the last five gallons (I kept it for the house) The party about three gallons were drank.

Tonight I decided to simmer with cinnamon and sugar (powdered and brown) then add about a shot of Bacardi dark rum per serving. Got a couple of Santa mugs, and......Excellent! Warm, with fresh cinnamon/apple googness. Taste like a warm apple pie.

Christmas party the Graff made a lot of people happy!

 

[mrgreen4242]

Hi - very new to brewing. I did a few gallons of cider+brown suger+yeast in the gallon jug this fall just to give it a whirl and ended up with some really decent swill... I carbonated te cider in some reused 20oz bottles (sanitized, of course) with a small amount of white sugar (1tsp per bottle or so).

Apparently, my Dad liked the batch I gave him so much he gave a me a gift certificate to my local home home brew shop (actually, his local shop, but anyways...) so I am going to scale up my production.

This recipe sounds fantastic, so I think it will be #1 for me. Couple of quick questions, though. First, if I ferment this in a bucket, should I use a racking cane type setup to bottle, or can I get a bucket with a spigot and use that?

Second, I want to carbonate in the bottle again (no keg, and really like my cider carbonated) but I am unclear how you add priming sugar to the cider without stirring up all the sediment? For my smaller batched I put a little suger right in the bottle, filled it and gave it a good shake/roll. Sounds like people are adding the sugar to the cider before bottling though? The stuff I made this fall came out tasty but with a ton of dead yeast/sediment in the bottom of the bottle (looks gross)! I figured with a racking cane/spigot I would be able to bottle without disturbing the sediment and clean it up significantly, but I just can't figure out how the priming sugar is added?

Lastly, I don't have fridge space to store all of this once the carbonation is right. Elsewhere on this site I read about people pasteurizing their brews in the bottle by submerging them in 160F water for ~10min which would stabilize it for long duration room temperature storage. Would that work for this?

Thanks a TON for any help! Can't wait to get started.

Rob

 

[Jewrican]

This recipe sounds fantastic, so I think it will be #1 for me. Couple of quick questions, though. First, if I ferment this in a bucket, should I use a racking cane type setup to bottle, or can I get a bucket with a spigot and use that?

The bucket with spigots are really used for bottling only. many are concerned with sanitation on these buckets as they can technically get junk stuck in the spigot. Certain buckets are designed to let you take the actual piece that runs apart as well as the other pieces so that it can be cleaned and sanitized, but I just dont mess with that. I ferment in glass or plastic with no spigot.

When the cider is ready you would "rack" it into the botting bucket, where you would add your priming sugar which will carbonate the cider. You can then use a bottling wand with the spigot to transfer it all to bottles so that you can store it.

if you ferment in a bottling bucket (with spigot) you would get all the trub from fermentation in the bottles

Because you are not stopping your fermentation early there should be no need to pasteurize the cider. Just keep it stored in a cool dark area and you are set. No pasterization needed at all.

Enjoy!

 

[mrgreen4242]

The bucket with spigots are really used for bottling only. many are concerned with sanitation on these buckets as they can technically get junk stuck in the spigot. Certain buckets are designed to let you take the actual piece that runs apart as well as the other pieces so that it can be cleaned and sanitized, but I just dont mess with that. I ferment in glass or plastic with no spigot.

When the cider is ready you would "rack" it into the botting bucket, where you would add your priming sugar which will carbonate the cider. You can then use a bottling wand with the spigot to transfer it all to bottles so that you can store it.

if you ferment in a bottling bucket (with spigot) you would get all the trub from fermentation in the bottles

Because you are not stopping your fermentation early there should be no need to pasteurize the cider. Just keep it stored in a cool dark area and you are set. No pasterization needed at all.

Enjoy!

That was all really helpful. Thank you!!

 

[Eascen]

Brewed it with 3lbs of wheat extract, I realize it'll be more cloudy but I had it extra sitting around...

 

[Stuntman]

Hi - very new to brewing. I did a few gallons of cider+brown suger+yeast in the gallon jug this fall just to give it a whirl and ended up with some really decent swill... I carbonated te cider in some reused 20oz bottles (sanitized, of course) with a small amount of white sugar (1tsp per bottle or so).

Apparently, my Dad liked the batch I gave him so much he gave a me a gift certificate to my local home home brew shop (actually, his local shop, but anyways...) so I am going to scale up my production.

This recipe sounds fantastic, so I think it will be #1 for me. Couple of quick questions, though. First, if I ferment this in a bucket, should I use a racking cane type setup to bottle, or can I get a bucket with a spigot and use that?

Second, I want to carbonate in the bottle again (no keg, and really like my cider carbonated) but I am unclear how you add priming sugar to the cider without stirring up all the sediment? For my smaller batched I put a little suger right in the bottle, filled it and gave it a good shake/roll. Sounds like people are adding the sugar to the cider before bottling though? The stuff I made this fall came out tasty but with a ton of dead yeast/sediment in the bottom of the bottle (looks gross)! I figured with a racking cane/spigot I would be able to bottle without disturbing the sediment and clean it up significantly, but I just can't figure out how the priming sugar is added?

Lastly, I don't have fridge space to store all of this once the carbonation is right. Elsewhere on this site I read about people pasteurizing their brews in the bottle by submerging them in 160F water for ~10min which would stabilize it for long duration room temperature storage. Would that work for this?

Thanks a TON for any help! Can't wait to get started.

Rob

Introducing priming sugar, requires that you boil a small amount of water in a sauce pan, add priming sugar. Rack beer off the sediment (trub) that is on the bottom of your primary fermenter. Best to cool sauce pan in an ice bath to under 90 degrees, then pour the boiled priming sugar mix into the batch. Without spashing stir throughly (you don't want oxygen in your beer at this point).

The bottling buckets with the spouts are easier (you only have to hold end of hose at the bottle end and not the bucket end). I don't have one only because I stopped bottling and when I did bottle, like NNatic said, I thought about the extra cleaning of spout and possible leaks later (probably too much worrying on my part).

Side note: Those plastic bottles are a lot more forgiving than glass ones. Make sure that you have the specific gravity at the right point and only introduce enough priming sugar (to your racked cider just before bottling) to carbonate. Sure don't want you to have bottle grenades blowing up in your house.

Welcome to the world of Home Brewing! You are among friends!

 

[Jewrican]

That was all really helpful. Thank you!!

no problem man. trust me.... all of that came from others helping me lol

 

[bhatchable]

I just started batch 2 of this stuff. I really enjoyed the first one, kept it basic as OP had written, with added MD at bottling for body.
Started a new five gallon batch looking to make this one emphasize caramel apples. So here is my next graff:

Caramel Apple Graff

3 Gallons of decent apple juice
-I used 1 gallon of simply apple and two gallons of treetop
2 lbs Two Row
1 lb Crystal 20L
1 oz Roasted Barley
.5 oz Yakima Goldlings

Mashed grains together in a single infusion mash, stovetop, for an hour at 155F.

Pulled two gallons of wort at 1.050. Split one gallon off into separate pot.

Topped one half up to 1.75 gallons and started 60 minute boil with .5oz Yakima Goldlings.

The other gallon was vigourously boiled down to 1/2 gallon, carmalizing it to add back in to the boil at 30 minutes.

Final volume was two gallons, cooled, hit with yeast nutrient, and a starter of WLP051 California V.

It is now fermenting slowly, 48 hours in. good copper/brown color. airlock smells great

pics below, cheers

 

[triangulum33]

My batch was in the primary for 5wks, 3wks in the bottle. It tastes more like beer than cider to me. Some nights it tastes good, other nights not so much.

 

[HalfPint]

My batch was in the primary for 5wks, 3wks in the bottle. It tastes more like beer than cider to me. Some nights it tastes good, other nights not so much.

I couldn't agree more. The first 5 or 10 pints were good to me, but I'm not liking it so much anymore. I have a gallon or so left in the keg after the family destroyed the batch in a weekend over the Christmas break. I'm thinking about bottling it so I can make way for a new batch in the kegerator.

 

[Recluse]

...is PATIENCE

My batch was in the primary for 5wks, 3wks in the bottle. It tastes more like beer than cider to me. Some nights it tastes good, other nights not so much.

I had EXACTLY the same experience. Was not liking the 'Apple Beer' all that much. Wasn't planning to make another batch. Then somehow, magically, after ~5 weeks in the bottle, it tasted great! The malty beer taste faded and the apple-y taste increased. It took about 4 weeks to where it was carbonated to my satisfaction as well, which may have added to the appeal.

It was a hit at the Xmas party I brought it to. I had started another batch of Apfelwein (which I liked a bit more originally, and was also a hit at the party) but now I have to plan some more Graff as well. Note that I left out the hops entirely, looking for a more cider-y and less beer-y beverage. It certainly turned out nice!!

Give it some more time and you might be pleasantly surprised!

 

[triangulum33]

I couldn't agree more. The first 5 or 10 pints were good to me, but I'm not liking it so much anymore. I have a gallon or so left in the keg after the family destroyed the batch in a weekend over the Christmas break. I'm thinking about bottling it so I can make way for a new batch in the kegerator.

Mine is almost day-to-day. One day it tastes good other days I dont like it. I'm not sure if its my taste buds or inconsistency in the beer. Either way, I wish it was more like cider.

 

[HalfPint]

It's weird to me. I get that cider (white wine taste) mixed with a hint of beer every now and then. It's just not my thing. I'm more of a Pale Ale Stout/Porter kinda guy. I think this is a decent recipe though for some who really like ciders and what not.

 

[triangulum33]

It's weird to me. I get that cider (white wine taste) mixed with a hint of beer every now and then. It's just not my thing. I'm more of a Pale Ale Stout/Porter kinda guy. I think this is a decent recipe though for some who really like ciders and what not.

Yes. Me too. I like big beers, Belgians, IPA's, etc. I also like cider. But I dont know if I like them mixed.

 

[WIP]

I had a funny moment yesterday. I was pouring a bottle after two days in the refer, and out poured a fingernail size clump of mold. I looked at it.... thought a bit.... looked again... thought a bit... scooped out the mold and drank it down. It wasn't as good as the other bottle I had a few days prior, but it was good enough. I am now aware of cleaning procedures, I assume I missed that bottle when I was cleaning them.

 

[Stuntman]

I had a funny moment yesterday. I was pouring a bottle after two days in the refer, and out poured a fingernail size clump of mold. I looked at it.... thought a bit.... looked again... thought a bit... scooped out the mold and drank it down. It wasn't as good as the other bottle I had a few days prior, but it was good enough. I am now aware of cleaning procedures, I assume I missed that bottle when I was cleaning them.

I give it to you for dedication.:rockin:

 

[Rowdy]

checked today 1.012 last week was 1.014
gonna give one more week then bottle it has also cleared substantially more than last week.

 

[flananuts]

For anyone who's done an AG mash, what OG would you be looking for the one gallon addition? I'm planning to do an AG APA in the 10-11 srm range and was thinking I would just increase my mash and sparge to end up with about an extra gallon in the boil kettle. I would then do a separate boil with the hop addition for the graff. If I ended up with a gallon of 1.06 wort, does anyone see any reason why I couldn't use that for Brandon O's Graff.

I also plan to use some yeast cake from a secondary that is S05 from an cascade IPA. I should be okay right?

 

[bhatchable]

I ended up at 1.060 or so with my AG wort addition. I did two gallons of wort to three gallons of juice though

 

[flananuts]

Thanks for the note. What was your grain bill for that? How did it turn out?

 

[bhatchable]

for two gallons of wort i used 3 pounds of two row, 1 pound of crystal 20, and 1 pound of crystal 40. I just did a small stovetop all grain and overshot my initial volume of wort, i ended with 3 gallons. I put a gallon into a saucepan and vigourously boiled it down to add back in (maybe similiar to scottish brewing techniques?) Ended with two gallons of wort at 1.059 according to my notes.

 

[Guinness]

Ok, drinking some of my Graff's now, a week in a half in bottles. I am really happy with it, and if it gets better from here I'll be elated.

Brewed it pretty much as per the recipe in the OP, using 0.75oz of Hallertauer at 3.8%.

 

[Stuntman]

With age, this stuff keeps getting better! I have the last five gallons (I kept it for the house) The party about three gallons were drank.

Tonight I decided to simmer with cinnamon and sugar (powdered and brown) then add about a shot of Bacardi dark rum per serving. Got a couple of Santa mugs, and......Excellent! Warm, with fresh cinnamon/apple googness. Taste like a warm apple pie.

Christmas party the Graff made a lot of people happy!

Next taste of this nectar....It is really comming to it's own at this point. Even the 6% hops are melding. Very subtle, very high alcohol content. It drinks like a beer, but is as potent as a wine. Today was right out of the faucet, barely tastes like apple, Just refreshingly fruity.

 

[Daddymem]

I've done three brews of this using the base recipe. It is one of my regular drinks. I was wondering though, it is a slight bit on the tart side, would replacing the 60L with equal amount of honey malt swing it onto the sweet side of things you think?

 

[oparea]

I've done three brews of this using the base recipe. It is one of my regular drinks. I was wondering though, it is a slight bit on the tart side, would replacing the 60L with equal amount of honey malt swing it onto the sweet side of things you think?

Maybe double up on the ammount of crystal 120l....?

 

[psychedelic_brew]

Well I just got some of this into the carboy last night!

We'll see how it turns out, my homebrew supply shop didn't have exactly what I was looking for, so my recipe turned out to be..

.5 lb Crystal 90L
a little more than 1 oz torrified wheat
4 gallons of motts
1 gallon of water
2 lbs DME (amber and extra light)
a little less than .5 oz of cascade that were I think 8%
Nottingham yeast

So should be pretty good, albeit slightly different than the original. I can't wait!

edit: oh yeah, hydrometer read 1.065

 

[triangulum33]

After 4 weeks in the bottle, I'm really starting to like this stuff. Its different. I've never had anything like it before.

 

[Daddymem]

Maybe I'll get some 120L and try that first.

 

[cheesecake]

I went with the 120l..... i need to bottle it one of these days

 

[psychedelic_brew]

After several days in the carboy my Graff went from a sickly, sour crab apple smell to a wonderful, sweet, and almost flowery smell.

I have my full confidence in this recipe. I can't wait!

 

[MrInternet]

I used Safale-05 and the basic recipe as posted, subbing flaked wheat and 1 gallon of cranberry/raspberry.

Yeah, please... anyone thinking adding cranberry/raspberry to this recipe, DON'T. I'll admit to taking one for the team here. This fermented into something that's not completely undrinkable, but is not that pleasant. It's unpleasantly tart... not in that lip-smacking way, but in the "errgh?" and pucker face way. And there is a sour taste in there that is not the "good" kind either...

It's not a great drink... I've stuck the bottles in the corner of the basement, might try them again in 6 months to see what has transpired. Also, this never really carbed up... waiting to see if time heals that wound as well.

Anyway, make this with ALL APPLE juice... bleccch...

 

[Dr_Gordon_Freeman]

Yeah, cranberry/rasberry and beer do not sound like good flavors to mix... Maybe for straight cider it would be good though.

 

[Daddymem]

Had a party here last night and the Graff was a hit!

 

[flyweed]

for all you guys who have followed this recipe to the "T" I'd like to hear your tasting notes. What do you get when you first smell it...what flavor hits the front of your tongue? what hits the back...what is the taste after you swallow? any lingering taste? how sweet, how sour, any malty aftertaste, or hops bitterness?

I have really wanted to give this one a shot, but have been a bit gun shy, because I have tried a couple other "grain" beer type cider brews..that I Just didn't like, because well....they tasted too much like....beer.

Please give me your thoughts and opinions on this..as I may make some

Dan

 

[triangulum33]

Mine tasted very much like beer with a sour slightly apple taste when it was young. As it ages, the beer taste seems to be diminishing leaving a slightly sweet, sour, malty apple cider taste.
It has really grown on me.

 

[Recluse]

I didn't hop mine, but early on it tasted very malty with almost no apple flavor..and took forever to carb. Gradually it took on a very nice apple flavor as the malt subsided and the carbonation came up. IT wasn't nearly as sweet as I thought it would be, and in retrospect I am glad that I didn't try any backsweetening as it turned out very pleasantly crisp and tasty. A bit more like cider than beer after all..but still a very pleasant malty undertone.

I am now curious about how the hop addition would change things, but I would say if you are gunshy about a more beery flavor, leaving the hops out might work for you. Trying to decide if the next batch will be hopped or not....

 

[choadne]

i'm on the graff train. i'm drinking my first good bottle of it. i opened the real first one too early. no carb and tasted a little hoochy. that was just one week after bottling. i changed the recipe a little. adding carapils, chocolate malt and some biscuit malt. i also added some clove and cinnamon. i brewed this after thanksgiving so i was in holiday mode. it's got a slight spice after taste. i used a pound of lactose at bottling to get it sweet.

i did this for the lady cuz she hates beer besides miller or bud light. she hasn't tried it yet but this might become one of my favorites. ill continue to do variations to this since it's pretty easy.

 

[Chaos_Being]

I have the supplies for this and will be brewing tomorrow. I've tried two other failed attempts at malted cider (both ended up way too sour,) and I'm hoping that this will prove to be what I'm looking for. I've read some descriptions of "sour" in this thread though, so I want to do all I can to not end up with another sour dumper. I bought some unfiltered looking "Mott's All Natural" that is just apple juice without added vitamin C/asorbic acid (the juice I used in my previous batches had this,) and I'll be using Crystal 120. Here is a question I have though- I also have a half pound of honey malt that I was thinking of using in a honey wheat soonish. I know this is supposed to be potent stuff (I haven't used honey malt before)- do you think adding perhaps 1/4 of a pound of this to my graff would help towards my goal of a non-sour cider, or would it be too out of place? I also have a pound of lactose on hand that I could alternately use after fermentation if I think the end product is too sour, so I could go either way.

Thoughts?

 

[paint_it_black]

So I've consumed just about all of my Graff... It's pretty drinkable, but it's a bit too dry/tart for me, and overall just kind of thin. I'm not sure if this is because I did the AG version that someone (I forget who) posted, or if I just have different tastes than a lot of you guys...
But I gave it plenty of time in the fermenter, as well as in the bottles...