Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[Clifton]

Xand, did you use juice with added vitamin C? That could very well be your "sour" taste.

 

[Xand]

Xand, did you use juice with added vitamin C? That could very well be your "sour" taste.

Interesting Clifton, thanks for the response. I used Indian Summer, which I believe does have ascorbic acid. Have you encountered that being an issue before?

What makes me think it's an infection is that I tried it after 3-4 days when it was at around 1.03 SG and it was sweet - almost cloyingly so. No sour taste at all. It wasn't until I tried another sample before racking to secondary that I noticed the sourness. It's also the same juice I used for my apfelwein, and that turned out delicious. It fermented out super dry so it's almost tart, but no pucker-inducing sourness.

The real test will be this weekend. I'm going to try it again and see if it's mellowed and is drinkable or what. I'll proably bottle some to see what happens with some aging regardless, but I think something is funky with it.

 

[Clifton]

It may be contaminated. I've never made Graff with vitamin C added juice. However, all my Apfelwein with the vitamin C juice was way too tart/sour for me. I made another batch of AW without Vit. C and it was WAY better.

Hopefully yours will mellow.

 

[Gnarboots123]

I'm new to everything that has to do with cider and/or beer. I just tasted my graff after one week of fermenting and it was really sour. I was wondering if this was normal and if it would tone down a bit by the time its bottled and ready to drink

 

[Clifton]

Gnar, it should tone down. It will be a little tart and dry but much less hoochy than apfelwein and I think is much better much quicker than apfelwein.

I try not to start drinking my beers until they are 6 weeks old. I find that's a good timeline for Graff as well.

The timeline for Apfelwein I've heard is 8 months. I have a few bottles of AW that'll be 8 months old in May we'll see if I make it again or if I stick with Graff.

Welcome to the board.

 

[Xand]

Good news Gnar. After finally getting some more sanitizer I was able to take a sample today after what would be a week in primary and 2 weeks in secondary and it seems like it's come back to drinkability. I'm not sure where the sourness I was getting came from, but while it still has some lingering tartness it's nowhere near as sour as it was after a week in primary and was actually pretty tasty. With some carbonation and further conditioning I think it will turn out really nice.

 

[Brandx40]

I made this recipe 2 weeks ago. SG was 1.060. I fermented with S 05 and it finished at 1.010- 1.011. I tasted it yesterday and its good but I noticed that it tasted a little "hot" and I could taste the alcohol in it. I'm thinking I may backsweeten to offset this but am wondering if that would be a mistake? I know that once its on gas, the perceived sweetness will change. Has anyone noticed any alcohol flavors in this beer? And if so, is it something that age will remedy?

 

[nwbackpacker]

I made this recipe 2 weeks ago. SG was 1.060. I fermented with S 05 and it finished at 1.010- 1.011. I tasted it yesterday and its good but I noticed that it tasted a little "hot" and I could taste the alcohol in it. I'm thinking I may backsweeten to offset this but am wondering if that would be a mistake? I know that once its on gas, the perceived sweetness will change. Has anyone noticed any alcohol flavors in this beer? And if so, is it something that age will remedy?

I just tasted my first batch - it finished at 1.006. No hot flavors at all. What temperature did you ferment at? I'm wondering if you let it get too far over 70F.

 

[Brandx40]

I just tasted my first batch - it finished at 1.006. No hot flavors at all. What temperature did you ferment at? I'm wondering if you let it get too far over 70F.

I fermented at around 65F or so and let the temp decrease over the 1st week so it isnt' estery or anything from the yeast. (I used Nottingham not s05 like I put in my original post). I tasted it a couple of days ago so I'll check it out again tonight and see what its like. I'm hesitant to back sweeten with more juice because I feel like once its carbed up it could be too sweet. I'll post again once I've given it another taste. For the record, it wasn't bad, just a touch of an alcohol flavor. Im thinking its gonna be really good once its carbed up and served cool.

 

[aajpnony]

My first batch is kegged and it gets better every day....this is going to be a staple in my house. cheers to Brandon O. I used the original recipe with Nottingham yeast. No off flavors or smells, and super potent in terms of abv, I didn't take gravity trains, but two pints is VERY "feel-able"

the airlock bubbled steadily at 1x/second for two weeks straight, then went to 1x/5 seconds for a week. At kegging time, the taste was ok, but much better than woodchuck (imo), but after 2 weeks in the keg, the apple essence is brilliant and fragrant (i used the kirkland pure juice, no vitamin c) and subtly sweet.body is amazing.

I love it so much I poured 4 gallons of juice on top of a gallon and a yeast cake from an AG irish red ale (1.054 og) that I just racked into a secondary (nottingham yeast as well). Can't wait to see how it turns out!
Started bubbling within a half hour!

Cheers! ps. Wifey loves it too, and we brewed it together

 

[aajpnony]

Btw, some awesome dude (i forget who) way back in the posts said this stuff is "chugg-able" if you add a bit of apple juice to it, man is he right! Wicked dangerous fun for the hardcore power drinkers out there! Can't wait to serve it up for the block party this summer.

 

[D0ug]

I made a batch tonight.

I followed the recipe, but used some local hops my friend got from a friend. He didn't know what kind they were. :s

He said they were a German noble hop, but he didn't know what strain. I checked the wiki and it looks like most nobles top out around 6%, i used about 1/3 oz and I'm crossing my fingers.

OG was 1.060 at 62*F and I pitched US-05. If it goes down to 1.010 it will be around 6% ABV

 

[Brandx40]

Btw, some awesome dude (i forget who) way back in the posts said this stuff is "chugg-able" if you add a bit of apple juice to it, man is he right! Wicked dangerous fun for the hardcore power drinkers out there! Can't wait to serve it up for the block party this summer.

Its true! I said a page back or so that mine tasted a bit "hot". I think it is just becuase it finished at 1.010 and was a little drier than I like in a cider. The flavor is good but I wanted a bit more apple flavor and a touch of sweetness so I added some potasium sorbate to knock the yeast out, then the next few days kegged it with a little more than a half gallon of apple juice. Tasted great!! Its not too sweet, nice and off dry. It brought the gravity to 1.015. I am going to have to be sure that people understand that yes, there is alchohol in this beverage!

 

[aajpnony]

Its true! I said a page back or so that mine tasted a bit "hot". I think it is just becuase it finished at 1.010 and was a little drier than I like in a cider. The flavor is good but I wanted a bit more apple flavor and a touch of sweetness so I added some potasium sorbate to knock the yeast out, then the next few days kegged it with a little more than a half gallon of apple juice. Tasted great!! Its not too sweet, nice and off dry. It brought the gravity to 1.015. I am going to have to be sure that people understand that yes, there is alchohol in this beverage!

Say Brandx40, what does the potassium sorbate do to the yeast? when you say knock out, do you mean clarify? My batch#1 is super cloudy, but not yeasty flavored...i figured it was because I added hot semi mash to room temp/cold juice...

 

[DoctorWho]

what does the potassium sorbate do to the yeast? when you say knock out, do you mean clarify? My batch#1 is super cloudy, but not yeasty flavored...i figured it was because I added hot semi mash to room temp/cold juice...

Potassium sorbate is added to stop the yeast from being active (most people recommend potassium sorbate +potassium metabisulfite to stop re-fermentation.

For you it sounds like a pectin problem from the hot wort. If you want it to clear you can try giving it time or adding a fining agent like pectic enzyme, sparkaloid, or gelatin.

Or, if you can live with the cloudiness, it won't change the flavor. Amber bottles for the win!

 

[Gnarboots123]

So my Graff has been fermenting for almost 2 weeks now (just 2 days shy of 2 weeks) and i need to free up a carboy for another brew going into secondary. Does anyone think i will have a problem bottling this now or should i just wait out the two weeks. Im a noob so please bear with me

 

[DoctorWho]

Gnarboots123,

Unfortunately, 2 weeks is a suggested timeline for fermentation and does not signal then end of fermentation due to other variables such as temperatures, yeast health, ect.

If you must free up some space, I suggest you check the SG with a hydrometer now and then again in a few days. Make sure that there is no chase in SG. That is how you know fermentation is finished. Then you can safely prime and bottle condition for a nicely carbed graff with out bottle bombs.

Unless you want to bottle this stuff as a still drink, then just add some stabilizer (potassium sorbate and kmeta) and bottle away right now.

 

[The_Broodwich]

Long time lurker, first time poster here. So I threw a batch of this together last night. Followed the recipe pretty closely except I used 1.5 lbs light DME and .5 lbs amber DME. I also used .5 oz of the "magic hop dust" from AHB.com (~7% AA) and the cheapest non-preservative juice I could find at HEB (Texas grocery chain). Basically my approach was to make the cheapest batch I could. The whole batch came in at ~$20. The wort tasted GREAT. It's bubbling away this morning. Can't wait!

 

[mountainman13]

Long time lurker, first time poster here. So I threw a batch of this together last night. Followed the recipe pretty closely except I used 1.5 lbs light DME and .5 lbs amber DME. I also used .5 oz of the "magic hop dust" from AHB.com (~7% AA) and the cheapest non-preservative juice I could find at HEB (Texas grocery chain). Basically my approach was to make the cheapest batch I could. The whole batch came in at ~$20. The wort tasted GREAT. It's bubbling away this morning. Can't wait!

Good thinking man! I've been trying to figure out something to do with the magic hop dust:rockin:

 

[sh00t]

ok, this past weekend I brewed up;
1 lb caramel wheat
4 oz chocolate wheat
2 oz torrified wheat
1 lb amber DME
1 lb light DME
1/2 oz hallertauer
nottingham yeast
4 gallons tree top apple juice from wal-mart(s)
...............actually 3 gallons of AJ from one brand and 1 gallon of AJ from another just due to stocking issues, can't remember if TT or whatever was which

 

[mulletmusketeer]

Just got back from a supply run for this, if anyone is near a Copp's or someplace that sells Roundy's brand, the Roundy's apple juice is 100% apple juice, no preservatives, and doesn't have Vitamin C. Plus it was on sale 2 for 1 for 64oz jugs. Pretty solid deal compared to the other stuff there

 

[america]

Hi guys, I brewed a batch of this last Friday and everything seemed to go well and it smells great! Just yesterday I realized I didn't mill my torrified wheat, is that going to be an issue?

 

[Clifton]

You may not get the head retention you were seeking but I doubt it will be ruined by your mistake. Don't worry.

 

[america]

You may not get the head retention you were seeking but I doubt it will be ruined by your mistake. Don't worry.

Thanks, I'm not too worried about that, just hoping for a good taste mostly.

 

[klyph]

I had half a keg sitting around for 8 months that we just tapped again the other day. This is a completely different beverage than when we last had it. It's so clean tasting, refreshing, and no alcohol flavor even though it's 7% it tastes like a dry Martinelli's sparkling cider.

Fantastic. I'll be aging this stuff much longer from now on, it's worth it.

 

[DoctorWho]

Just yesterday I realized I didn't mill my torrified wheat, is that going to be an issue?

I left out the torrified wheat, because I couldn't find any local and I just had a bottle yesterday that had carb'ed for 2 weeks and it tastes good and there is a nice carbonation, just no foamy head. And I don't need that.

You'll be fine!

 

[america]

I left out the torrified wheat, because I couldn't find any local and I just had a bottle yesterday that had carb'ed for 2 weeks and it tastes good and there is a nice carbonation, just no foamy head. And I don't need that.

You'll be fine!

Glad to hear it, did you do the normal two week fermentation? I find it hard to believe that that's all it needs. Also, how clear was yours? I'm a week in and it's cloudy as hell (not that it really bothers me).

 

[rycov]

mine was only for two weeks. it took a little longer in the keg (to taste best) than i thought it would, but not too bad, about 3 weeks. but i also added two cinimon sticks and i think they made it a little bitter, probably should have went with one. the cloudiness went away for me after about a week of being cold.

 

[DoctorWho]

I did three full weeks (and a day or two) in the primary. No need for secondary. Fermentation finished in about 2 weeks and I let it go for a week longer and then bottled. 2 weeks in bottles, so far.

I took it to a local homebrew meeting two days ago and all the beer guys were very impressed. I thought it was good but still a bit tart. I can't wait to bring some next month and knock there socks off (hopefully!)

It was very clear after the month. There was a small yeast ring in the bottles, but this is normal with any bottle conditioning.

This stuff is very good, but it's better with a little age on it!

 

[ultravista]

Does anyone have this recipe in a Beersmith .bsm file?

 

[mikeysab]

drinking a slightly messed up version of this right now. I mashed 10 lbs of MO to collect 2 gallons of wort, boiled it with about an ounce of nelson sauvin for a half hour and mixed it with 4 gallons of AJ. The final product is nothing near cider, but also far away from beer. no apple flavor or aroma, but drinking this isn't nearly as bad is you might think it would be. It tastes more like a beer right now, but I think some time in bottles will bring that apple flavor out. i was shooting for a drinkable apple cider 4 or 6 weeks after bottling, but I think I wound up with something that needs to sit for awhile. right now theres no apple flavor, but it's definitely a drinkable brew. if this one survives in the bottle, we may get to see some maturity and some cider like flavors, but it's drinkable now, so it may not survive. I might just stick it in a corner of my brew closet and try to forget about it for awhie. going with the "All Grain" format of this, I like it, and would do it a gain......just maybe not as much base grain as I used for 5g.

 

[IffyG]

I just kegged my first batch of Graff brewed on 3/28/11. It's slightly tart, but absolutely delicious. Can't wait for this bad boy to carb up. I got a feeling it's gonna go quick. Probably should have made more than 3 gallons.

 

[sweetpoetatoe]

Was thinking about an old post someone made about what to do with what's left in his mash tun after he reaches his boil volume. I wonder if you could one last sparge and use that to make some sort of grafflike substance along with whatever beer you're brewing? hrmmmmm....

I had some friends that did something similiar, but put it into a mead, and it was one of the best braggots ive ever had

 

[Looper]

Has anyone ever added blood oranges to this cider?

I read earlier in the thread that blueberry, raspberry, grape juices etc can add a lot of tart to the cider.

Do oranges contribute to tartness as well when used in this recipe?

 

[sweetpoetatoe]

Long time lurker, first time poster here. So I threw a batch of this together last night. Followed the recipe pretty closely except I used 1.5 lbs light DME and .5 lbs amber DME. I also used .5 oz of the "magic hop dust" from AHB.com (~7% AA) and the cheapest non-preservative juice I could find at HEB (Texas grocery chain). Basically my approach was to make the cheapest batch I could. The whole batch came in at ~$20. The wort tasted GREAT. It's bubbling away this morning. Can't wait!

If you get the ingredients for an all grain batch its even cheaper! that is if you have the ability for that.
i just got all the ingredients for all grain, Really excited to see how ti tastes compared to the first batch

 

[The_Broodwich]

I do most of my beers all-grain but I was just going off of what others on this thread have said about it not really being worth the trouble. I supposed depending on how good it turns out I could justify doing a 3 gal mash for 15 gals of finished product. :cross:

 

[Looper]

I just brewed up a batch of this stuff, the wort smells amazing..

I decided to variate the OP's recipe just slightly.

Going with Wyeast 3068 that I harvested and washed from a hefeweizen I bottled 3 days ago..

I also added 32oz of organic Concord Grape juice. It is not cider, its grapple cider.

Looking forward to trying it out! thanks for the recipe OP

 

[scottyg354]

Just brewed this on Saturday. Followed all the directions except for two changes I only use .25 oz of hops and used Cascade, I also only boiled them for 15 minutes instead of the 30 minutes suggested in the recipe. I also used Sparkling Amber DME. Went the Safale 05 route. Looks pretty good for a newbie.

 

[sweetpoetatoe]

I just started an all grain batch on May 15. used 1 lb of 60L, 3.5 lbs of 2 row, and then the ounce of torrified wheat. Its an incredibly small mash, i would recommend brewing in a bag. The normal water to pounds of grain conversion come off really wierd too, i used about 1 gallon of strike water, with around the same amount of sparge water, even though i had prepared 2 gallons. efficiency came out great, with the cheap apple juice its at 1.065
The only thing i went a little weird with was the hopping. I threw in about .50 oz of mt hood hops at 50 minutes. Then though that i haven't really heard of anyone going for late addition hops. Im sure that going with any more hops than brandon said at 50 or 60 would yield it being too bitter. but a little bit of aroma might turn out nice, so i threw in about .25 at 10 minutes to the end, I'm really excited to see how that turns out, so far its fermenting very well and smells great.
My main question is has anyone else experimented with the late or dry hopping? I've tried searching the forum for it, but no matter how specific i seem to be, it doesnt come up with any good results.

 

[DoctorWho]

Hey The Broodwich,

Slightly off topic, but I caught your piece in Vogue. Your PR department is awesome.

Enjoy your graff...it's the best cider I've tasted!