Good Idea to Pitch Onto a Cake?

[mojo_wire]

I'm going to try pitching onto a yeast cake for the first time this week. Any advice about this?

The yeast is Wyeast 1214 (Belgian Abbey) that will be going onto it's third generation.

The first generation was a Belgian Pale (5.2% Alc, 10.9 SRM) that was brewed last summer and washed.

The batch that has just finished fermenting is a 2.5 gallon English Mild (3.4%, 6 SRM). I didn't make a starter, just pitched a jar of the washed yeast and it took off within a day and was close to FG in 4 days (1.008). It has been in the fermenter for 3 weeks.

Batch 3 will be a 2.5 gal Belgian Dark Strong -- not really a Rochefort clone, but along those lines -- a little darker than Dark Strong style guidelines. 1.092 OG, projected 9.3% alcohol, 31 SRM.

I figure that going English Mild ---> Dark Strong should be a good plan. The yeast wouldn't have worked too hard on the Mild and that batch would effectively be a pretty tasty starter for the Dark Strong.

Does this logic sound solid to anyone who has more experience with this?

 

[cluckk]

It sounds like you'll be fine. The previous batches were lower gravity so they should be less stressed.

 

[Cyclman]

Make a big starter, oxygenate well, should be fine.

 

[BigFloyd]

Make a big starter, oxygenate well, should be fine.

If you've got plenty of yeast harvested from the previous batch, why would you need to do a starter to up the cell count?

 

[HerbieHowells]

If you've got plenty of yeast harvested from the previous batch, why would you need to do a starter to up the cell count?

That might be a big if. You may well have enough yeast, but are you sure? Spending a few bucks and a few days with a starter that wasn't strictly necessary is better than having this thing quit on you at 1.03.

 

[stpug]

From a pitching rate standpoint, you would be fine pitching a 2.5gallon 1.092 wort onto the yeastcake from a 2.5gallon ~1.035 beer. In fact, you would likely be overpitching by double or more (according to some calculations in yeastcalc). Think of it as you've just finished making a 2.5 gallon starter for your 2.5 gallon big beer

In most situations I would say "go for it" and keep the process simple. However in this case I would recommend splitting your yeastcake to get a pitching rate that's closer to the correct amount. The reasoning is that your yeast is meant to provide the distinct belgian-style flavor profile that typically come from esters and phenols, and those profiles might be subdued if you use too much yeast because they yeast won't have to go through the normal reproductive process that normally takes place when pitching the correct amount of yeast. The benefit is that if you pour off 3/5 of your yeastcake into a sterilized canning jar then you've just created a starter for later use. The disadvantage is it will require more work and you'll be making an estimate of how much of the yeastcake is the correct amount to use (I'm guessing about 2/5 of that cake is good).

 

[BigFloyd]

However in this case I would recommend splitting your yeastcake to get a pitching rate that's closer to the correct amount.

That's consistent with what I've been hearing. I just haven't tried it yet.

I've got an ESB (1.054) in its last week on S-04 right now. I'm planning to use just a portion of that cake for a stout (est. 1.058) that I'll be brewing this coming weekend after checking Mr. Malty to see how much slurry is recommended for that gravity/amount of wort.

Prepping a blow-off tube just in case.

 

[mojo_wire]

From a pitching rate standpoint, you would be fine pitching a 2.5gallon 1.092 wort onto the yeastcake from a 2.5gallon ~1.035 beer. In fact, you would likely be overpitching by double or more (according to some calculations in yeastcalc). Think of it as you've just finished making a 2.5 gallon starter for your 2.5 gallon big beer

In most situations I would say "go for it" and keep the process simple. However in this case I would recommend splitting your yeastcake to get a pitching rate that's closer to the correct amount. The reasoning is that your yeast is meant to provide the distinct belgian-style flavor profile that typically come from esters and phenols, and those profiles might be subdued if you use too much yeast because they yeast won't have to go through the normal reproductive process that normally takes place when pitching the correct amount of yeast. The benefit is that if you pour off 3/5 of your yeastcake into a sterilized canning jar then you've just created a starter for later use. The disadvantage is it will require more work and you'll be making an estimate of how much of the yeastcake is the correct amount to use (I'm guessing about 2/5 of that cake is good).

Thanks, that's really helpful. I've never tried Yeastcalc before, usually depended on Mr Malty, but this is a great resource. I had a feeling that a direct pitch was going to be overpitching by a significant amount, and felt a little uncomfortable with doing that with a belgian.

So -- I will wash the yeast tonight and pitch half of it tomorrow. Saves me the hassle of trying to bottle and brew at the same time anyway.