Glass or plastic fermenter

[generalstores]

Would it be worth my trouble to invest in a glass carboy for primary fermentation? Here is my problem. I've brewed 5 batches of beer since I started this hobby last spring. The first 2 batches turned out great. The 3rd batch must have got infected somehow as it had a nasty aftertaste. I took a bottle to my local brew kit vendor to sample and yes he thought it was infected. He asked what I use to sanitize and I told him bleach. He said that was a no no and sold me a product called Idaphour. I brewed my next batch and it tasted almost as bad as the last batch. The home brew store vendor walked me through all the steps and sold me the ingredients for another batch. This time I went with Munton's Nut Brown Ale. Brewed it on Thanksgiving weekend, bottled it 8 days later. A month ago I tried some. No good, it has the same nasty after taste as the previous 2 batches did. So, I took a couple of bottles to a different home brew supply store in my area. Yup, he said it was infected. He asked what I sanitize with I told him Idaphour and he said he would rather use Star San. Everybody uses something different. I also took him my fermentation bucket and he said even though it is obviously clean it has a nasty smell inside it. Yes, this smell is very much like what the after taste, tastes like. He said to throw out the bucket and start using a glass carboy. I do have to agree with him that the glass will not absorb smells. I've thrown out over a $100 of beer over the last few months and maybe think I'm not cut out for this hobby. I'm thinking of trying one more time and purchase the glass carboy. Has anyone run into this type of problem?

 

[BendBrewer]

Yes, glass all the way, imo. Much more fun and 'cool' looking that way.

the 6 gallon one for Primary.

 

[BendBrewer]

Are you taking the valve out and cleaning that well every time?

Did you scratch your bucket?

There is CLEANING and there is SANITIZING. They aren't the same. OxiClean is your friend.

 

[ReverendTap]

I'm moving over to glass for related reasons. Haven't had infections, but the plastic buckets will permanently absorb any really strong flavors/smells that contact them (I like to brew strongly flavored and/or spiced beers). Anyone who's ever worked in food service and had to deal with pickle buckets knows what I mean; you can wash them and sanitize them countless times, but that smell's never coming out. If your bucket absorbed the stench from the original infection (sounds like it did), it'll impart that on every beer you brew in that bucket forever, even if you get it spotless and run it through a friggin autoclave. Pitch it or use it for general storage, but it's done as a fermenter.

This is not, however, to say that the buckets are no good as fermenters. If you aren't brewing insane spiced beers or getting infections, the beer smell the bucket absorbs is pretty much going to be unnoticeable most of the time. So if you're set up for buckets and don't feel like switching over to glass (or better bottles, which people claim don't absorb smells, no personal experience there), just get another bucket and spend the money you save by not switching on more ingredients.

 

[jamesjensen1068]

I've only brewed 2 batches of beer and 1 batch of apfelwein so I'm no expert. If you want to keep your costs down buy the bucket if you don't mind spending more and getting to look at your beer brewing get a carboy. How many buckets could you buy for the price of a glass carboy. Do what you want...but I would also read as much as you can on sanitation.

 

[NorCalAngler]

I bottled my first 5 gallon batch, which was a pale ale, last night and my plastic bucket primary had a fairly strong smell from the cascade hops even after cleaning it very well. Since this is one batch and the smell can only grow stronger with additional batches I'm thinking it would be wise to have a different bucket for each style (hoppy vs not). At that point it seems more cost effective to just use a glass carboy. Even if the flavor imparted by the bucket is subtle it's going to bug me to know there is some compound soaked into the bucket causing the smell, even if it is the glorious smell of cascade hops!

 

[turtleboy3737]

can anyone confirm if the PET better bottles have the same issue as the buckets do as far as picking up smells and such?

 

[TipsyDragon]

well glass is heavy, breaks when dropped, and doesn't block UV. but you don't have to worry about scratches causing an infection. that being said i use nothing but glass when fermenting.

as a side note bottling after 8 days is WAY to early. wait 2 - 3 weeks before bottling. then once its bottled wait another 3 weeks before chilling and drinking.

 

[generalstores]

well glass is heavy, breaks when dropped, and doesn't block UV. but you don't have to worry about scratches causing an infection. that being said i use nothing but glass when fermenting.

as a side note bottling after 8 days is WAY to early. wait 2 - 3 weeks before bottling. then once its bottled wait another 3 weeks before chilling and drinking.

According to the instructions with the beer kit I bought, once the specific gravity reaches 1.010 or less and stays there for a couple of days, it is okay to bottle which is what I did. It looks like a glass carboy is what I should invest in, thanks.

 

[eelpout]

According to the instructions with the beer kit I bought, once the specific gravity reaches 1.010 or less and stays there for a couple of days, it is okay to bottle which is what I did. It looks like a glass carboy is what I should invest in, thanks.

Yea sure its ok to bottle right then, but your beer will benefit buy leaving it for another week.
Your little yeasties might be done fermenting, but they aint dont cleaning up thier mess yet.

 

[Yooper]

It's a matter of preference. I rarely use glass carboys for beer. I have many "ale pails" that I use, along with a few Better Bottles. I have had only one infection in over 250 batches, and that came from an infected yeast starter from washed yeast.

If you're careful not to scratch the plastic and use oxyclean and a soft cloth for cleaning, and sanitize properly, plastic is fine. Glass is less likely to harbor nicks and scratches, but is more of a pain to clean. Either one is fine to use.

 

[TomA]

Been using a plastic fermenter for over a year and also use bleach, never had this problem. Someone said to check for scratches or cracks, I'd check that also.

You have been sanitizing the bottles also before use, right?

 

[Lunarpancake]

can anyone confirm if the PET better bottles have the same issue as the buckets do as far as picking up smells and such?

They do NOT. Just make sure you clean well after you are done using it.


I would recomend a Better Bottle over a glass bottle for one reason. Better Bottles will not shatter. Do a forum or google search for carboy break or laceration or shatter. God forbid you drop a glass carboy you are almost guaranteed a trip to the emergency room. Sometimes the glass ones explode or break on their own too. SO BE CAREFUL!


Broken carboy Stories:
http://brewing.lustreking.com/articles/brokencarboys.html

 

[ArcaneXor]

can anyone confirm if the PET better bottles have the same issue as the buckets do as far as picking up smells and such?

They do not.

 

[maida7]

I also advocate for the use of better bottles. The buckets are not bad but they absorb flavors and scratch easy. I will never use glass. I've just had too many close calls with them breaking in my hands. Better bottles are not perfect but for me they are the best of the 3 choices.

 

[maida7]

They do not.

I agree! I've done 20-30 batches in a better bottle and no smells. Also, do not use a brush when cleaning. Soak overnight in hot water and oxyclean or PWB. Rinse well the next day and it will be spotless. Same goes for buckets and glass.

 

[BellTap]

I use 5 star pbw to clean out plastic fermenters. Gets the funky smell and taste out. Sanitize with starsan after and air dry.

 

[jds]

re: Glass or Plastic

Yes. Use glass. Or use plastic. Both have advantages and drawbacks, and in the end it really comes down to personal preference. Therefore, yes, use a plastic fermenter. Or a glass one. Or a stainless steel one. Yes.

 

[goose1873]

I prefer glass. I have both but never use my ale pale anymore unless doing a huge beer and plan on actually racking to secondary...glass is heavy but I have never dropped one (yet) and hopefully by the time I get old enough that I have a hard time picking up 60 lbs, I'll have a conical

I have heard great things about better bottles but just like glass...As fas as cleaning, an overnight soaking with oxyclean makes them sparkle with no scrubbing. So thats not really an issue for me...

Whatever you use will work, just clean the cr*& out of it

cheers

 

[Catch-22]

According to the instructions with the beer kit I bought, once the specific gravity reaches 1.010 or less and stays there for a couple of days, it is okay to bottle which is what I did. It looks like a glass carboy is what I should invest in, thanks.

Remember, the yeast haven't read the instructions on your kit. Letting it sit and condition will help clean up those off flavors.

In answer to the glass/plastic question I use both. Each to me has their pros and cons but I have dialed in my process to accomplish my particular needs. If your sanitation is sound, then I would venture to guess their is something in the process that is the culprit.

 

[BillTheSlink]

I started with glass, moved to better bottles, and now use buckets. Glass is very heavy for one thing, and could very well kill you if you drop it, and let me tell you they get slippery as freshly cut wet grass when wet. Better bottles only have one disadvantage in my book. If you have a very nasty fermentation from time to time you will find they do not want to come completely clean with just a soak in Oxiclean. Buckets are my favorite because I can take the wide mouth lid off, rinse them out, soak in Oxiclean, then take some fresh Oxiclean solution on a soft sponge and wipe them out. I just brewed a spiced winter high gravity ale and after all that plus some airing out time there is little odor, and it sat in there from October to February.

The only thing I use glass for is long term bulk aging, such as a Belgian Trappest that I have had aging since last June.


Here is my suggestion to your infection problems. Throw out your bucket. They're cheap enough and you may have scratched it. But also get rid of any soft plastic tubing like hoses. These are actually much more likely to spread infection from batch to batch than any thing else. When you do buy a bucket don't get anything with a valve on it. These can leak and also harbor infections.

 

[Bacchus]

Glass or plastic doesn't make one damned bit of difference. I've brewed the same recipes in both and they always tasted the same. Great!

 

[Chuck_Swillery]

Don't give up! Its a learning process for everyone.

It sounds like you've got some flaws in the sanitation process somewhere. That could include something beyond your control like having an infected plastic fermentor that makes it impossible to prevent infection. As others have said the upside to glass is its easier to clean and sanitize in my opinion. Downside is its much heavier, much more expensive, and easy to break. Its all a trade off. I loved my 6.5 gal glass carboy as long as I didn't have to haul it around much. Plastic is a great option for brews that are done without needing a secondary fermentor and can be bottled within a week or two of going in to primary.

I'd take the bucket into the homebrew shop and see what they think. Don't be shocked if they try to sell you another, it may be what you need anyway.

 

[eelpout]

Sometimes the glass ones explode or break on their own too. QUOTE]


explode by themselves? c'mon.

 

[CarsonCE]

Sometimes the glass ones explode or break on their own too. QUOTE]


explode by themselves? c'mon.

He's right! The other day I was cleaning my brew closet and looked over at an empty 5 gallon glass carboy. I'll be damned if that thing didn't just blow up for no reason! I'll be fermenting in sandwich ziplock bags from now on.

/sarcasm

 

[Lunarpancake]

He's right! The other day I was cleaning my brew closet and looked over at an empty 5 gallon glass carboy. I'll be damned if that thing didn't just blow up for no reason! I'll be fermenting in sandwich ziplock bags from now on.

/sarcasm

That's EXACTLY what I meant. Boy you must be a genius where you come from huh?

If anyone else needed explanation:

Glass carboys are fine, HOWEVER if you do drop it, or if there happens to be a tiny imperfection in the glass. It will not take much pressure for the thing to break.....and yes if the pressure is coming from the inside of the carboy it will explode. I have seen one or two "exploded carboys" due to clogged blow-off tubes and I have also heard MANY stories of carboys just breaking in peoples hands while cleaning or even just carrying around empty. I rather enjoy the full use of my hands and would rather not take that trip to the emergency room. If you are OK with it then go ahead, use a glass carboy. Chances are you will never have a problem, just just be aware of what can and has happened to people.



Exploding Carboy Story https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/exploding-carboy-86996/

 

[CarsonCE]

Lunarpancake,

I was just teasing. I like jokes. I knew what you meant. There are definately mutiple stories on here about exploded carboys. This is from misuse though. If you use correctly and use a large enough carboy or blowoff tube (and avoid extreme temperature change), there is no risk.

Examples:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/glass-carboy-explosion-during-cooling-137962/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/exploding-carboy-86996/

 

[fbones24]

I don't know if it has been said already, but after cleaning, I soaked my bucket in a baking soda/water solution for 4 hours. My plastic bucket had an odor that I could not get rid of no matter what I did to clean it. The baking soda/water soak got rid of the odor completely.

 

[Lunarpancake]

Lunarpancake,

I was just teasing. I like jokes. I knew what you meant. There are definately mutiple stories on here about exploded carboys. This is from misuse though. If you use correctly and use a large enough carboy or blowoff tube (and avoid extreme temperature change), there is no risk.

Examples:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/glass-carboy-explosion-during-cooling-137962/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/exploding-carboy-86996/

Ok fair enough and I appreciate the fact that you admittadly were joking around.


I still think there is risk involved. All glass (especially when non tempered as carboys are) contain stress points. These points are not the same on any two carboys even if there are points that would be more likely to break due to pressure or a hit. We do not know what kind of testing goes on at the factory to ensure these things are safe. I have even passed up purchasing glass carboys in the past because of tiny visable air bubbles in the neck.


I don't really see why you would fight for using a glass carboy. There are no positives that outweigh buying the better bottle. There are however positive factors that make better bottles the better choice. For me even the slightest chance that the glass carboy could break and cause severe injury (even if it was my fault for breaking the bottle) is reason enough to stick with better bottles.

 

[glockentalk]

All this discussion has made me more cognizant of the risks associated with glass carboys. I'll continue to use the two that I have, but I am going to buy a Better Bottle, too. I am also much more careful handling my glass carboys. So, thanks to all.

 

[IceFisherChris]

Someone should back this up for me, just in case I'm wrong. Soak the bucket in bleach water. 1 cup per gallon. Soak it for a good couple hours and rinse out with hot water.
I don't understand why an infection would require you to throw out your bucket. Yeah bacteria can work it's way into cracks, but molecules of sanitizers are MUCH smaller.

 

[Catch-22]

I don't know anything about anything really but....knock on an entire forrest.......I have used the same three buckets since I got my kit from my LHS back in '98. I personally haven't had an issue but I'm pretty anal about sanitation.

Side note,
I don't use bleach because I've heard that for it to actually be an effective killer, it has to have it's ph reduced by mixing say vinegar in it. I personally am not a chemist and I would probably make a nice chlorine gas that I would enjoy for a few seconds.

 

[IceFisherChris]

Side note,
I don't use bleach because I've heard that for it to actually be an effective killer, it has to have it's ph reduced by mixing say vinegar in it. I personally am not a chemist and I would probably make a nice chlorine gas that I would enjoy for a few seconds.

NO NO NO NO NO!!!
Don't EVER mix bleach with an acid. EVER. It produces a poisonous gas. I accidently mixed bleach with an acid at work and I was hacking up my lungs for 4 hours after breathing it in.

Ahh I guess I didn't read it close enough to notice you said it's a bad idea. But still, just so people know

 

[Catch-22]

NO NO NO NO NO!!!
Don't EVER mix bleach with an acid. EVER. It produces a poisonous gas. I accidently mixed bleach with an acid at work and I was hacking up my lungs for 4 hours after breathing it in.

Exactly my point of enjoying that chlorine gas for only a few seconds

 

[fatbob]

For what it's worth, I use the bucket fermenters mainly because they are so easy to carry and I have never had a problem with them. as far as the odor. They smell like beer. I soak them in Oxyclean and the odor is not that strong.

 

[ArcaneXor]

Exactly my point of enjoying that chlorine gas for only a few seconds

That stuff punches you in the face so bad it makes Mike Tyson look like a whimp.