eltorrente
Well-Known Member
All this carboy talk lately is starting to scare me a little
Welcome to the internet.. where everything gets blown way out of proportion.
Glass carboys, real talk.
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Welcome to the internet.. where everything gets blown way out of proportion.
triskelion
Well-Known Member
Maybe all these terrible accidents are fairly rare. But avoiding carboys sounds like a reasonable idea to me if there's some good alternatives
eltorrente
Well-Known Member
People do stuff every single day that others have had terrible accidents doing. Dicing onions, using the stair case, driving a car.. If you read about all this stuff and what could happen to you, you'll be afraid to do anything at all. Just use common sense and it's not even an issue.
triskelion
Well-Known Member
But why not avoid dangerous things if there's an alternative? I think that's all that us plastic people are saying. And I've stated several times, all the common sense in the world won't save you from an accident.
I'd be willing to bet that the carboys with stress fractures, etc had invisible manufacturing defects. Problem is, there's no way to know which carboys have these defects until symptoms appear... like stress fractures, if you're lucky.
I bought my Better Bottle when my one-year-old son came out of nowhere and grabbed my leg, and I almost dropped the bottle on his head. Now I use plastic when I can, and the legacy glass fermenters I own only get used outside where my brew fridge is, where there's a door between the kids and it.
I started a thread asking about actual, verified cases of plastic fermenters causing wort to oxidize. So far there's nothing. I have no concerns about leaving a strong ale in plastic for a year or more, so yeah.
Related: Anyone wants a glass six-gal, they can have it for postage.
triskelion
Well-Known Member
Related: Anyone wants a glass six-gal, they can have it for postage.
Thats very generous, but you might have difficulty giving them away to anyone whos been reading this thread. lol
stevedasleeve
Well-Known Member
I use my glass carboys cause I always have and my beer is good! I turned down a conical and a full blown electric system - both possible birthday presents from my lovely wife - because I *like* my brewday. I don't have to think particularly as all the tasks are ones I've done over and over, and the process yields good beer. I suspect my beer won't be any better going upscale ( or down!) but I'd have to figure out all the new quirks all over again. Who needs it right?! So to bring it back to this thread, if you don't work out, go with plastic ( ya wimps) knowing it makes not a hoot of difference. If you like bling go with a conical. If you like lifting heavy objects go with glass. It's all good in the end since the objective is beer.
My 2P
Steve da sleeve
My 2P
Steve da sleeve
No need to change your mind or switch. Glass works great. The horror stories are to remind you to be careful.
Consider that many of us drink while doing this. I think the safety message is an important one.
oh, I understand. 14 years, hundreds of batches, same glass, and the same argument. people tend to get aggressive & passive aggressive about the glass vs. plastic issue. and it always ends up with glass users being stupid for the "added risk". people might not always come right out and say it so bluntly, but it's always underlined when they keep pressing the issue. it's like a political argument between the big 2. no one wins and one side (both really) will get all sorts of smug and arrogant thinking they are right. I understand the argument and the risks involved.
anyone wants to quote me & ask anything else or a direct statement, feel free to PM me. as for this thread: off my radar.
fxdrider
Well-Known Member
Gotta say, I really don't get why folks are getting offended in this thread. No one is saying anyone is "dumb" or "stupid". No one is saying you can't use glass, or has sponsored legislation banning glass carboys or requiring a background check for their purchase. (Have they?)
All that I and others here who've decided to use plastic are saying is that WE'VE decided to use plastic. You don't have to just because we do, just like we don't have to use glass just because you do. Use glass all you want. Odds are that if you're careful, you'll never have a problem, as many of you have proven by your successful use of glass for many years, incident-free. Just please don't be offended because we (plastic-users) choose not to use glass. We get to, just like you get to use glass if you want. It's a free country, right?
All that I and others here who've decided to use plastic are saying is that WE'VE decided to use plastic. You don't have to just because we do, just like we don't have to use glass just because you do. Use glass all you want. Odds are that if you're careful, you'll never have a problem, as many of you have proven by your successful use of glass for many years, incident-free. Just please don't be offended because we (plastic-users) choose not to use glass. We get to, just like you get to use glass if you want. It's a free country, right?
kombat
Well-Known Member
Because the "alternative" is not without drawbacks of its own.
If plastic buckets were strictly better than glass carboys in every possible way, this wouldn't be an argument. The whole discussion here is weighing the relative benefits and limitations of each vessel against each other, and how different brewers assess different value to each trait.
Plastic buckets are harder to seal, increase risk of oxidation, scratch easier, and obscure the beer from visible inspection. To some folks, none of those issues are important. To others, they are deal-breakers.
Denny said:
The one infection I've had was due to a scratched Better Bottle. I started brewing with an ale pail but grew tired of the lid not seating correctly. I've used glass carboys for years now, because they are best for me based on the above experiences. Buckets and BBs might be better choices for others. One size does not fit all, in this case.
fxdrider said:
You need to read back through the thread, there are several "why would any sane person use glass carboys?" posts.
to go back to the first post. My assumption is that the carboy may have been jarred when set down throughout its life. This could have happened several times before the OP got it, probably got set down less than feather light between then and the incident. I think that may be what weakens the bottom ring and the pressure of 5 gallons of delicious delicious beer was too much for it when he picked it up. I am glad though that no one got hurt.
As for the plastic/glass/fish tank debate. Use what you want. Be careful regardless of what you use as 5 gallons of beer being dropped on your foot hurts regardles of what it is in when it falls. So long as your way works for you, use it. Just if you use glass, please wear shoes and be extra careful to not shred yourself should one break. We do not need to be losing brewers. You guys and gals are some of the best people I know.
As for the plastic/glass/fish tank debate. Use what you want. Be careful regardless of what you use as 5 gallons of beer being dropped on your foot hurts regardles of what it is in when it falls. So long as your way works for you, use it. Just if you use glass, please wear shoes and be extra careful to not shred yourself should one break. We do not need to be losing brewers. You guys and gals are some of the best people I know.
Kolsch_Meister
Well-Known Member
I've done one batch in glass. I can see the attraction of the glass. I will be doing more in the carboy in the future. Most batches well continue to get fermented in plastic buckets.
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I still go with the problem in the OP being that a room temperature carboy was set on the bottom coils of a freezer and it shocked the glass. It just didnt fracture until lifted. Even if a freezer is temperature controlled, its an on-off thing. When its on the surface temperature is extremely cold.
texcan2000
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I've got 3 of each and use whatever is empty. I understand people wanting to minimize risk. I'm careful when moving all my carboys. Both my 5 gallon carboys are glass though. I prefer to lager in glass. I suppose I could use cornies for lagering but I find quite a bit of trub in secondaries after lagering.
It's a joke dude.
fxdrider
Well-Known Member
That's an interesting point. Maybe we should be placing our carboys on something in the freezer, to avoid that sort of contact. Maybe something as simple as a towel or rubber mat?
For me, the benefits of glass carboys aren't enough to make me want to switch back. I did a few batches in a glass carboy when I first started out back in '90-91. Worked fine.
At some point I brewed a batch while the first one was still fermenting. So I bought a cheap plastic fermenting bucket and it worked fine. Now I use bucket pretty much exclusively for all primaries, and the glass carboy for anything that is going to sit for like 6 weeks or more, which is mostly the rare batch of wine.
The small things like scratches (which are pretty easy to avoid if you are even slightly careful from the start), oxidation from opening the lid (I don't open the lid to check the beer, I can peek in through the airlock bung), etc. do not affect the final beer enough to make me concerned. The fact is, most batches of beer will do just fine even with a small opening.
In that same thought, I often use an S shaped airlock with the proper amount of fluid and don't worry about the small amount of air that might get in during suckback.
IMO there is way too much worry about a small amount of air getting into a primary. I only worry about O2 during a long secondary, which I don't do very often. In that event I DO prefer a carboy purged with CO2 and with minimal headspace. But even then, a Better Bottle or similar vessel is as good in most ways. One thing that helps is that I secondary in a keg. Sometimes it's the serving keg, and sometimes I transfer the cleared beer into a sanitized serving vessel using a jumper hose.
So much more could go wrong with other parts of the brewing process, such as temperature, yeast health and pitch rate, recipe formulation, freshness of ingredients, etc. I'm not going to worry about the very tiny potential difference plastic has compared to glass. Not for the length of time in the average fermentation, anyway.
At some point I brewed a batch while the first one was still fermenting. So I bought a cheap plastic fermenting bucket and it worked fine. Now I use bucket pretty much exclusively for all primaries, and the glass carboy for anything that is going to sit for like 6 weeks or more, which is mostly the rare batch of wine.
The small things like scratches (which are pretty easy to avoid if you are even slightly careful from the start), oxidation from opening the lid (I don't open the lid to check the beer, I can peek in through the airlock bung), etc. do not affect the final beer enough to make me concerned. The fact is, most batches of beer will do just fine even with a small opening.
In that same thought, I often use an S shaped airlock with the proper amount of fluid and don't worry about the small amount of air that might get in during suckback.
IMO there is way too much worry about a small amount of air getting into a primary. I only worry about O2 during a long secondary, which I don't do very often. In that event I DO prefer a carboy purged with CO2 and with minimal headspace. But even then, a Better Bottle or similar vessel is as good in most ways. One thing that helps is that I secondary in a keg. Sometimes it's the serving keg, and sometimes I transfer the cleared beer into a sanitized serving vessel using a jumper hose.
So much more could go wrong with other parts of the brewing process, such as temperature, yeast health and pitch rate, recipe formulation, freshness of ingredients, etc. I'm not going to worry about the very tiny potential difference plastic has compared to glass. Not for the length of time in the average fermentation, anyway.
Denny, ive really been soaking in your comments in this thread..hopefully you're still following it...
I'm wondering what type of vessel do you use for lagering and/or secondary? Im mostly interested in this discussion of the carboy form moreso than the discussion of material used. The lagering/2ndary is the stage where i always use my carboys. I always assumed the carboy form was meaningful at that point. What do you think?
kombat
Well-Known Member
Freezers have coils in the floor? Are you sure? I was under the impression that the coils were only in the sides.
I almost never use a secondary, although I'm going back to it more for batches I dry hop. Stan Hieronymous wrote a great Zymurgy article about the interaction between hops and yeast and after reading it I found I prefer to get the beer off the yeast before dry hopping. So, for that I xfer the beer to a corny. I do the same thing for lagering because a keg takes up less room in my fridge than a carboy. The actual form/shape of the container doesn't matter for that. I still have a dozen+ carboys and I may use one once or twice a year if I have no other options, or if I make a batch of wine (seldom).
Slightly on topic: does anyone know of a better carboy hauler than is normally available? I get scared by the snap that connects it around the sides. I feel like it wouldn't be too hard to get one that just goes around the whole carboy.
For reference this is the one I am using now:
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?products_id=10995
For reference this is the one I am using now:
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?products_id=10995
Beernik
Well-Known Member
The snap on mine is quite sturdy. I worry less about it than making sure all the leg straps are equally spaced around the carboy.
I only use my glass carboys for wines, meads, and Brett beers. Basically anything I'm worried about possibly staining, leaving odors, or resulting in an infection in a plastic bucket.
I hardly used them last year. But this year I've done a wine, a melomel, a cyser, and a Brett beer.
I only use my glass carboys for wines, meads, and Brett beers. Basically anything I'm worried about possibly staining, leaving odors, or resulting in an infection in a plastic bucket.
I hardly used them last year. But this year I've done a wine, a melomel, a cyser, and a Brett beer.
I have a brew hauler and the snap that attaches to the side is not really weight bearing. It just helps keep the lifting straps in position.
They are really way overkill for the amount of tension they receive.
Mordhaus
Well-Known Member
If it helps anyone who uses a Brewhauler, I wrap a bungee cord around my carboy and it not only keeps the straps of the hauler where I want them, I also use it to hold the styrofoam shielded temperature probe of my A419 in place during fermentation.
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