Glass Carboy Excitement

[sbsmann]

So lately in these forums I've been digging around old posts and am focusing on the gruesome stories and pictures of broken glass carboys, blood, stitches and misery. I don't want to argue glass vs plastic, because there has been plenty of that already. However, I would like to look at the contributing factors outside of dropping it that create the most risk for breakage.

I've only used glass in my brewing and never had any close calls (thankfully). I'm a pretty cautious guy and take measures to insure my safety from dropping one, but I realize it is still a risk that I am willing to take. I also know there are other ways for these things to break and I am interested in these spontaneous explosion I read about and what may cause them? I understand we shouldn't expose the vessels to extreme temp changes...but what is considered extreme? Also is there any type of thickness or rating on the glass that is more durable than others that we should look for when buying? Is there a lifespan for a carboy (ie do people replace them after x number of years or uses)? Anything else? Just looking for a educated discussion.

 

[Yooper]

I think what happens is that minor bumps and knocks go unnoticed, and then suddenly one tiny little minor bump causes those stressed points to shatter.

That's what happened to my friend. She had moved, and packed them well, but they were likely bumped a bit. She had used this one once or twice since her move, and had brewed one day. She lifted one to put it on the counter (empty) to sanitize it, and it just broke at the neck and the bottom fell out, and it severed the tendon between her thumb and index finger. She drove herself to the hospital because it was faster than finding her phone and calling me or 911 (she lived about two blocks from the hospital) and they could reattach it.

She had owned it a while, but not years and years or anything like that. It wasn't an ultra cheapie knockoff or anything. It was a 6.5 gallon carboy.

I've only broken one, when I dropped it on the basement floor.

 

[ChrisfromAbby]

I wonder if simply painting the outside with clear polyurethane could reduce the risk of catastrophic failure - like safety glass....

 

[kh54s10]

I don't have and never will have 5 gallon or larger glass carboys. But, what I have gathered is that most current glass carboy manufacture is a lot thinner and weaker than they were years ago. I don't know the chemistry/physics but I would say that any sudden temperature changes more than a couple of degrees would cause some weakening. I would also risk to say that every little bump adds up over time. Any of these weakening stresses would add up over time and might not be at all visible, then....

It gnaws at me the people who say "I am careful and have never had a breakage". Suggesting that everyone who broke a carboy was careless. If you read the broken carboy horror compendium thread you will find quite a few that were careful and never the less had breakage.

If you are willing to take the risk, go for it. I am not. If I did use glass it would be in plastic milk crates, put in place and never moved, even for cleaning, which means they would have to sit in a sink or something similar.

 

[SEndorf]

Just replied elsewhere on the same topic.
My experience is that you cannot predict when these fail by looking for damage, stress cracks, etc.
And when they do fail, you don't want your hands grasping the bottom and the top. This is what sends folks to the ER.
If glass is your thing, I wouldn't handle them without a brewhauler.

 

[kh54s10]

I wonder if simply painting the outside with clear polyurethane could reduce the risk of catastrophic failure - like safety glass....

I often thought this would be a viable option. Especially if reinforce with fiberglass or better yet Kevlar cloth embedded in some kind of strong flexible coating.

But, I opted for Better Bottles 6 1/2 years ago when I started, due to the weight. So adding reinforcement would make glass carboys even heavier.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

I often thought this would be a viable option. Especially if reinforce with fiberglass or better yet Kevlar cloth embedded in some kind of strong flexible coating.

But, I opted for Better Bottles 6 1/2 years ago when I started, due to the weight. So adding reinforcement would make glass carboys even heavier.

Coating the outside sounds a semi-viable option, but unsure if you could ever keep water from between the glass and the coating.

Would love to see it, if someone tries it!

 

[sbsmann]

Interesting....I didn't really think about the bumps & knocks over time that could structurally weaken it. Even just sometimes setting on the basement floor a bit too hard has probably done damage to it. It's definitely scary to think at some point a light bump or simply setting it down could shatter it. I like the idea of applying a coating. I wonder if it would be possible to build a carboy out of safety glass that doesn't shatter?

 

[ancientmariner52]

Back in the middle of the last century, I seem to recall handling carboys of acid that had a rubbery translucent coating, to protect from casual dings and make them less slippery. They would still break if knocked off of a bench, though. That stuff even dissolves floor tile. Had to evacuate the whole school....

 

[flars]

Interesting....I didn't really think about the bumps & knocks over time that could structurally weaken it. Even just sometimes setting on the basement floor a bit too hard has probably done damage to it. It's definitely scary to think at some point a light bump or simply setting it down could shatter it. I like the idea of applying a coating. I wonder if it would be possible to build a carboy out of safety glass that doesn't shatter?

There are different degrees of being careful. Carefully setting a glass carboy on the basement floor, if the floor is concrete, is not being careful. Concrete is gritty. It will cause stress to the glass. Even a vinyl floor with some grit can cause stress and eventual failure.

I like my glass. Might just as well use a bucket if the glass is coated limiting the beautiful view of the fermenting beer.

My motorcycle is going to get me before one of the carboys.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Thanks, but NO glass for me larger than serving size.

 

[paneubert]

However, I would like to look at the contributing factors outside of dropping it that create the most risk for breakage.

I would add that negative pressure can be a problem just as much as positive pressure. Don't seal your glass carboy when cold crashing.

 

[paneubert]

If we want to talk about precautions to take for those who use glass, a nice pair of puncture/slash resistant gloves are nice. The kind cops wear so they don't get stabbed with drug needles when searching people.

 

[triethylborane]

My motorcycle is going to get me before one of the carboys.

Or one of those commonly handled pressurized glass vessels, bottles. Most of the carboy breakage seems due to operator error - thermal shock from that pic thread appeared to be common.

Back in the middle of the last century, I seem to recall handling carboys of acid that had a rubbery translucent coating, to protect from casual dings and make them less slippery. They would still break if knocked off of a bench, though. That stuff even dissolves floor tile. Had to evacuate the whole school....

Well fast forward to present day and glass carboys are still present in labs. Even dispensing or aspirator carboys made of glass are still around. I think the coating used "today" is PVC, but the ones I have used are also traceable. Costly.

 

[sbsmann]

If we want to talk about precautions to take for those who use glass, a nice pair of puncture/slash resistant gloves are nice. The kind cops wear so they don't get stabbed with drug needles when searching people.

Brilliant. If they don't cost hundreds of dollars, I'd certainly be interested.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Home Brew mobile app

 

[flars]

Or one of those commonly handled pressurized glass vessels, bottles. Most of the carboy breakage seems due to operator error - thermal shock from that pic thread appeared to be common.

 

[flars]

Or one of those commonly handled pressurized glass vessels, bottles. Most of the carboy breakage seems due to operator error - thermal shock from that pic thread appeared to be common.




Well fast forward to present day and glass carboys are still present in labs. Even dispensing or aspirator carboys made of glass are still around. I think the coating used "today" is PVC, but the ones I have used are also traceable. Costly.

My most recent visit to the emergency room was when the bottom dropped of a six pack carrier holding some home brew destined for my wife's brother in law. The neck of one of the bottles went into my thigh. There was clean up from my brew room, through the house, my wife's car, hospital parking lot, and aisles to emergency. I still use glass bottles.

Rinsed out my right boot the next day.

 

[sbsmann]

My most recent visit to the emergency room was when the bottom dropped of a six pack carrier holding some home brew destined for my wife's brother in law. The neck of one of the bottles went into my thigh. There was clean up from my brew room, through the house, my wife's car, hospital parking lot, and aisles to emergency. I still use glass bottles.

Rinsed out my right boot the next day.

That sucks. Funny, bc I've thought about that whenever I haul around 6 packs with flimsy 6pk carriers 0k

 

[triethylborane]

My most recent visit to the emergency room was when the bottom dropped of a six pack carrier holding some home brew destined for my wife's brother in law. The neck of one of the bottles went into my thigh. There was clean up from my brew room, through the house, my wife's car, hospital parking lot, and aisles to emergency. I still use glass bottles.

Rinsed out my right boot the next day.

Damn, that is bad. Glad you are kicking still.

 

[AkTom]

I rarely pick up a full carboy anymore. Allinonewinepump.com check it out. No more lifting, my back loves it. I use it for bottling too.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

I would add that negative pressure can be a problem just as much as positive pressure. Don't seal your glass carboy when cold crashing.

This!

When cleaning, and pouring the water out of them, it's best to insert a hose through the neck, to let some air in, whilst the water flows out.

Yes, I've seen a side collapse on one, while doing this.

 

[ESBrewer]

Some of the carboys are really cheap and the material quality is uneven. Some carboys are sold with a removable plastic cage (with handles) and I think it is a good idea to use it when moving the carboy around. This should disperse the pressure more evenly. Gloves would also be nice. Frequent use and especially alkaline conditions will wear out the glass. It might be a good idea to replace the carboys from time to time and avoid using highly alkaline cleaning agents. I inspect the carboy before use, just to make sure there are no any visible cracks and avoid hitting the surface with metal such as the body of the cleaning brush cause even small scratches are potential breaking points. And rapid changes in temperatures must be avoided. Other than that it is a great material and shape for fermentation.

 

[paneubert]

Brilliant. If they don't cost hundreds of dollars, I'd certainly be interested.

U-Line has a three pack for $9. ANSI A2 cut rating is not the best, but it is not bad.
https://www.uline.com/Product/Detai...ves/Uline-Durarmor-Cut-Resistant-Gloves-Large

A5 and higher is where you start hearing about it being good for places like "window manufacturing".
http://www.brassknuckleprotection.com/includes/images/common/ansi-glove-chart-lg.jpg

Ohh man.....is it bad that I want to call these ones sexy? Only $25 and they have longer "sleeves". And rated A6....
"Dyneema® is a brand of polyethylene fibers that are 10 to 15 times stronger than steel"
https://www.fullsource.com/pip-18-sd385/

Do they make a pair of pants out of that I can buy? Haha. Probably could find some long/high length socks made from that material....hmmmmm...

 

[triethylborane]

Do they make a pair of pants out of that I can buy? Haha. Probably could find some long/high length socks made from that material....hmmmmm...

Chainsaw chaps might work, but so would a protective bubble.

 

[passedpawn]

I wonder if you can just buy a 6.5g big mouth bubbler (or a better bottle), cut the top off, drop the glass one inside, and use it as a glass carboy condom? If the diameters work out, would be a nifty solution for those intent on glass.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Ooo new business [emoji362] idea...carboy condoms[emoji3]

Or perhaps a Dyneema condom so at least my most important junk is protected in a shattered carboy accident.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Maybe a quilted carry bag, with brew hauler style webbing and handles? Put a drawstring on it and it would also serve as insulation and light block.

 

[PADave]

I just don't see what the fascination of using a large glass carboy is. I was hell bent on using glass when I started brewing. Then I did some research and discovered the risk is not worth it, so many better options out there.

 

[sbsmann]

I just don't see what the fascination of using a large glass carboy is. I was hell bent on using glass when I started brewing. Then I did some research and discovered the risk is not worth it, so many better options out there.

Probably a similar fascination as drinking beer out of glass versus plastic cups.

 

[passedpawn]

Probably a similar fascination as drinking beer out of glass versus plastic cups.

Beer out of plastic cups? OK, you've crossed a line now.

 

[triethylborane]

I wonder if you can just buy a 6.5g big mouth bubbler (or a better bottle), cut the top off, drop the glass one inside, and use it as a glass carboy condom? If the diameters work out, would be a nifty solution for those intent on glass.

just lol if the condoms in your dresser drawer dont work for this

Beer out of plastic cups? OK, you've crossed a line now.

glass is dangerous!

 

[kh54s10]

Is the carboy bag, that they advertised with a video of them dropping it off a roof and no punctures through the bag still in production? I forget what it was called.

 

[MaxStout]

Just spray some of this stuff on the carboy.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Is the carboy bag, that they advertised with a video of them dropping it off a roof and no punctures through the bag still in production? I forget what it was called.

I wondered the same, and wondered why I never saw them drop a full carboy in their demo........

 

[brewcat]

If you start coating glass carboys you may as well switch to stainless steel. I always thought I would use my glass carboy after buying a couple plastic big mouth bubblers. But they made me realize glass carboys are heavy and a pain to clean. Haven't used the glass since.

I will say the glass seems to be thicker than some I'm seeing now. Those probably would have broke with how I used to handle my carboy. Good advice is to set it on a towel. Use a brew hauler or crate to move it. Long sleeves, pants, shoes when moving or cleaning. Check for weak spots (e.g. small hairline cracks).

 

[MaxStout]

I use glass carboys for fermenters and own several. A few 6-1/2 gal, a couple 5 gal (which I almost never use), and some 3 gal for half batches. All are the good Italian-made ones, not the cheap Chinese knockoffs. Never broken one. I give them a good amount of care and respect and I eyeball them frequently. I am willing to accept the risks. That said, I never use those neck-mounted handles. You're just asking for trouble and the side-loading could snap the neck off. I use Brewhaulers (and I carefully inspect the stitching and add a few stitches if necessary). I also have a couple of the heavy-duty plastic milk crates (not the cheap imitations from the home-storage section at Target). I never set a glass carboy directly onto a hard surface--I put a piece of cardboard down before setting the carboy onto it.

Maybe someday I'll buy a couple ss Brewbuckets, but for now the glass will continue to serve its purpose for me.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I actually like my glass and never had an issue. I don’t use them much because I put 12.5 gal in my 15 gal fermenters. I do still use them when I make cider.

 

[jrgtr42]

I have 3 glass ones and 2 Better Bottles.
I don't often use any of them - the glass when I'm aging sours, and usually the plastic when bulk aging brews on wood and so forth. "Standard" fermentations - no extended aging - takes place in Ale Pails.
I take reasonable precautions when dealing with the glass ones - they live secured in milk crates for transport and fermenting, I don't even take them out for cleaning, unless there's a mess that I have to wash the outside, in which case I put it in the slop sink and don't take it out until dry. 2 of them have the neck handles, I almost never touch them (I should just take them off) occasionally use them to tilt the carboy to lift from the bottom.
I wear long pants and heavy shoes when I deal with them, and usually leather work gloves.
I know it's not if but when something happens with them, and I just hope it's empty when it does happen.
So har, I've only lost a 1-gallon jug, that had a sour starter in it. Best smelling mess EVER.

 

[sbsmann]

All good info. I feel like my biggest risk area for an accident is during the cleaning phase. When I have beer in it it is always in a brew hauler and being set down on something soft. When cleaning and rinsing it it's lighter and easier to move around. Also more slippery and dropable. That being said, just being more aware and cautious goes a long way in reducing the odds of a mishap.

 

[Brew_Dude41]

Just spray some of this stuff on the carboy.

I was thinking about the clear flex seal myself.
I may pick up a can and experiment with it to see how it may contain an empty bottle when it breaks. If it performs well might test breaking other glass vessels.
Not sure i will buy a 5 gal just to bust it, but you never know the lengths i might go to further home brew safety. (and i get to break stuff)