getting mixed answers re: force carbonating

[jturkish]

first time kegging, force carbing at 40f degrees and 20psi.

psi keeps dropping and won't stay constant at 20 psi - by morning it was around 5 psi

lhbs and other homebrewers say this is normal because the beer is absorbing the co2

others say the regulator should remain constant pressure

i've done the soap bubble test numerous times, can't find any bubbles being produced

if it's supposed to stay constant would someone mind providing a step by step on how to set the pressure properly - i'm assuming there's an order to when the valves should be opened, maybe something like close the regular gas line, turn regulator all the way to the left, open co2 tank valve, set psi, open gas line -- is that it?

 

[j1n]

Was there a change in temp of the co2?

 

[afro_lou]

Sounds like a bad regulator to me... You are leaving it on all night, right? It's true that the beer is absorbing the co2, but the regulator should be constantly replacing that. Are you sure your tank is full?

Steps to getting the gas flowing are:
1) Make sure everything is connected and tight
2) Make sure that regulator is at its lowest setting (usually full counter-clockwise)
3) Open tank valve
4) Crank up the regulator to desired psi

Question: are you doing the quick force carbing method?

 

[Skep18]

You are leaving it on all night, right?

Sounds like this possibly might be it to me. It may sound obvious but if you didn't know at least it would be an easy fix!

To clarify you have open the CO2 tank with the regulator pressure set to your desired PSI and leave the CO2 tank open the whole time.

 

[jturkish]

Was there a change in temp of the co2?

fridge is set 40

 

[jturkish]

Sounds like a bad regulator to me... You are leaving it on all night, right? It's true that the beer is absorbing the co2, but the regulator should be constantly replacing that. Are you sure your tank is full?

Steps to getting the gas flowing are:
1) Make sure everything is connected and tight
2) Make sure that regulator is at its lowest setting (usually full counter-clockwise)
3) Open tank valve
4) Crank up the regulator to desired psi

Question: are you doing the quick force carbing method?

yes they're tight and i'm leaving the co2 tank open all the time and i hope the co2 tank is full, i was sold it as full

i've done this couple times now, i make sure the regular is at it's lowest setting, then i turn off the tank valve, purge co2 in the line until it reads 0psi, then i open tank valve, crank up to 20 psi, hook up gas line to keg, open regulator gas valve, psi then shoots up to 25, release gas from keg until regulator hits 20 psi

i'd like to set and forget at 20 psi for 4-5 days

 

[afro_lou]

yes they're tight and i'm leaving the co2 tank open all the time and i hope the co2 tank is full, i was sold it as full

i've done this couple times now, i make sure the regular is at it's lowest setting, then i turn off the tank valve, purge co2 in the line until it reads 0psi, then i open tank valve, crank up to 20 psi, hook up gas line to keg, open regulator gas valve, psi then shoots up to 25, release gas from keg until regulator hits 20 psi

i'd like to set and forget at 20 psi for 4-5 days

Hmm... Sounds like you're on the right track then... Is your regulator one of the ones with a "tank level" gauge on it too? Or just a single gauge? When the psi drops to 5psi, can you crank the regulator back up to 20psi?

I'm still thinking that you might have a bum regulator.

 

[imasickboy]

How long has the CO2 tank, and regulator been in the cold? They need time to acclimate. If less than 24 hours, walk away, and check again tomorrow.

 

[jturkish]

Hmm... Sounds like you're on the right track then... Is your regulator one of the ones with a "tank level" gauge on it too? Or just a single gauge? When the psi drops to 5psi, can you crank the regulator back up to 20psi?

I'm still thinking that you might have a bum regulator.

It has tank level and I'm able to crank it back up. I have been cranking it back up to twenty psi every chance I had, I hope I'm not over carbonating it

 

[jturkish]

How long has the CO2 tank, and regulator been in the cold? They need time to acclimate. If less than 24 hours, walk away, and check again tomorrow.

Co2 was in the fridge at 35 about a week while the beer cold crashed. I took it out and left it in the garage for a day, still warm in Idaho then moved back to fridge at 40f. Regulator was out in the garage for a while

 

[afro_lou]

It has tank level and I'm able to crank it back up. I have been cranking it back up to twenty psi every chance I had, I hope I'm not over carbonating it

Weird... That means that sooner or later, the regulator is going to be wide open just to maintain 20 psi. Can you weigh your tank without the regulator on it? That should give you a pretty good idea if the regulator is working correctly and reading your tank as full.
After that, I'd say get a new regulator from your lhbs and see if that works any better.

In the meantime, you could always pull a pint and see how the carb level is [emoji106]

 

[FloppyKnockers]

This is one of the reasons I don't f**k around with this method. Sure, it may be more reliable (at times), but to me, an 'I want to drink it now' kinda guy, you can't beat 30 psi and roll it for a couple minutes method.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

are you keeping the C02 tank in at 40 or room temp, you cant rely on the readings if your tank is in the cold, it needs to be in room temp

 

[PLOVE]

To be clear -

1. Co2 cylinder valve is "open" full.
2. Regulator is set to 20 psi
3. Any valve between your regulator and gas line is fully open.
4. Gas line is connected to your keg
5. Keg is at 40°F.

If you leave everything as above for 3-4 days (don't change anything) you will have carbonated beer. Your regulator should never waver from 20psi and given enough time the entire system will equilibrate to 20ps. This would include your keg, your beer (overcarbonated), gas lines, regulator, etc.

If things aren't working like this than it sounds like a bad regulator. Good luck!
P

 

[jturkish]

are you keeping the C02 tank in at 40 or room temp, you cant rely on the readings if your tank is in the cold, it needs to be in room temp

It's in the fridge with the beer

 

[actionjackson905]

Can you post a pic of the regulator as it is, open and hooked up to the keg? Regardless of how much CO2 is in the beer, as long as the tank is fullish, the psi setting should not be dropping. That's the job of the regulator, to keep the pressure as set.

 

[jturkish]

Can you post a pic of the regulator as it is, open and hooked up to the keg? Regardless of how much CO2 is in the beer, as long as the tank is fullish, the psi setting should not be dropping. That's the job of the regulator, to keep the pressure as set.

http://imgur.com/WbAEcO4

 

[j1n]

are you keeping the C02 tank in at 40 or room temp, you cant rely on the readings if your tank is in the cold, it needs to be in room temp

No, as long as its acclimated to the cold, the readings should be correct. if it was warm then he made it cold then the psi can change. seems like a bad regulator since its been in the fridge the whole time and no change in temp.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

usually happens just the opposite, the CO2 gets real cold it seems to expand and sends more pressure out by slowly creeping the regulator up. if you have a relief valve on your regulator a good thing to do is turn the co2 valve to off then Bleed everything, all lines, kegs., hold it open to release all pressure, then turn your regulator down to 0...turn the co2 back on and raise the pressure to the desired pressure, also tap the gage glass, the needle can get stuck, if it jumps back and fourth get a new gage, only about $8

 

[actionjackson905]

Everything looks alright to me. So I'll have to agree with Ozarks. Shut the tank off. Bleed the regulator and keg out. Turn the regulator all the way down to zero, then turn open the tank up full, and slowly raise your psi to the desired setting. If that doesn't work look at getting a new regulator, or borrow one to see if that's the problem.

 

[jturkish]

Everything looks alright to me. So I'll have to agree with Ozarks. Shut the tank off. Bleed the regulator and keg out. Turn the regulator all the way down to zero, then turn open the tank up full, and slowly raise your psi to the desired setting. If that doesn't work look at getting a new regulator, or borrow one to see if that's the problem.

yup, done this few times except i didn't bleed the keg out - do you mean open the release valve until i don't hear any hissing?

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

unplug the keg, bleed it separately

 

[jturkish]

unplug the keg, bleed it separately

ok i did this

1. disconnected gas from keg,
2. closed gas line,
3. closed gas valve on co2 tank,
4. turned regulator all the way to the left,
5. release pressure from regulator,
6. opened gas line and release more pressure in the line,
7. release pressure from keg (there wasn't a lot of hissing, expected more since i've been carbonating since friday),
8. connected gas line with regulator gas valve open,
9. opened gas on co2 tank,
10. slowly turned regular to the right (it took several rotations before getting pressure into the keg, it didn't register any psi for several rotations then all of a sudden with the smallest turn it went to 15ish psi,
11. made another tiny turn and boom 30 psi),
12. turned regular to the left and bled co2 from keg until it went back down, i couldn't get it to 20 psi, settled at 25 psi

 

[jturkish]

Still dropping in pressure, down to 20 psi now

My lhbs says the only time he's seen faulty regulators is when they increase pressure not down. I explained all I've done, he says he needs to see my system to see what's wrong. They're an hour away. Looks like I'm stuck with a regulator that doesn't regulate

 

[actionjackson905]

Still dropping in pressure, down to 20 psi now

My lhbs says the only time he's seen faulty regulators is when they increase pressure not down. I explained all I've done, he says he needs to see my system to see what's wrong. They're an hour away. Looks like I'm stuck with a regulator that doesn't regulate

I'm leaning toward a faulty regulator. Is there one you can borrow or would your LHBS loan you one to check against yours?

 

[jturkish]

I'm leaning toward a faulty regulator. Is there one you can borrow or would your LHBS loan you one to check against yours?

i did some more tests and found a leak!!!!!! is it the only leak? maybe not sure

1. same steps up above where i disconnected from keg, bled gas out, closed co2 tank, closed regulator valve, turned regulator left to be at 0 psi. with regulator valve closed i open co2 tank and set the regulator to 20 psi - waited about 10 minutes, no drop in pressure

2. next i opened the regulator valve for the co2 to flow to the gas disconnect with it still disconnected from the keg - after ten minutes it dropped a small amount -- this time i submerged the disconnect in a cup of water -- a bubble would form and surface from the top of the disconnect - i never did the soapy bubble test on this part, only on the part where the line connects to the disconnect

3. placed disconnect on keg and then some soapy water on top of the disconnect - yup bubbles

does that mean i have a faulty connector?

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

you have a leak, use teflon tape on all connections

 

[jturkish]

you have a leak, use teflon tape on all connections

Looks like the top of the gas connector can be screwed off with a flat head screwdriver, should I unscrew it and put Teflon tape around it?

 

[actionjackson905]

Looks like the top of the gas connector can be screwed off with a flat head screwdriver, should I unscrew it and put Teflon tape around it?

You can take this apart. Be careful not to loose the poppet. Also there is a hard to see O ring under that screw top that either stays inside the disconnect, or stays attached to the screw top. ( I have lost a couple of these already and are difficult to replace ). HD has standard O rings and there are a couple that match. That's where your leak would be coming from.

 

[jturkish]

You can take this apart. Be careful not to loose the poppet. Also there is a hard to see O ring under that screw top that either stays inside the disconnect, or stays attached to the screw top. ( I have lost a couple of these already and are difficult to replace ). HD has standard O rings and there are a couple that match. That's where your leak would be coming from.

Should I use keg lube on that o ring in addition to Teflon tape?

 

[hvjackson]

By the way I don't think anyone has come out and said it yet but 20 psi @ 40 ºF is going to be HIGHLY carbonated. Many would say over-carbonated, although it depends a little on the style.

You can use a chart like this to look at the relationship between carbonation (measured in "volumes of CO2"), temperature, and pressure: http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php.

I generally shoot for around 2.5 volumes, which should be like 12 psi if you're carbonating at 40 ºF.

 

[jturkish]

By the way I don't think anyone has come out and said it yet but 20 psi @ 40 ºF is going to be HIGHLY carbonated. Many would say over-carbonated, although it depends a little on the style.

You can use a chart like this to look at the relationship between carbonation (measured in "volumes of CO2"), temperature, and pressure: http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php.

I generally shoot for around 2.5 volumes, which should be like 12 psi if you're carbonating at 40 ºF.

I thought the chart was for setting and forgetting to have carbonated beer in 2 wks. I'm doing twenty for 4-5 days

 

[hvjackson]

I thought the chart was for setting and forgetting to have carbonated beer in 2 wks. I'm doing twenty for 4-5 days

OK yeah I didn't realize you were burst carbonating. You're right, the values in that chart are the long-term equilibrium values. If you're burst carbonating, after your high-pressure period you will want to drop the pressure down to your desired final value, 10 or 12 psi (hopefully before the beer is overcarbed).

In my experience burst carbing is more trouble than it's worth since I usually like to leave kegs in the fridge for a week or two anyway to settle / clarify, and they can just carbonate while that happens. Also if you accidentally overcarbonate by leaving the beer at the high PSI too long, it can be a PITA to recover. But there are certainly tons of people who do it happily and successfully.

 

[actionjackson905]

Should I use keg lube on that o ring in addition to Teflon tape?

Teflon tape on the threads only. Don't tape the O ring or the contact area.

 

[actionjackson905]

As long as the O ring is intact, and not cracked or drying out. You should be able to go without the lube.

 

[actionjackson905]

I just realised you are going to lube the gas side. So go for it. I just don't like using lube on the liquid sides. My preference.

 

[hunter_le five]

usually happens just the opposite, the CO2 gets real cold it seems to expand and sends more pressure out by slowly creeping the regulator up.

Huh? CO2 expands when it gets cold now? When did this happen?