Getting a better taste from kits

[johnrich85]

I normally brew using a kit and 1kg of brewing sugar (this is know as dextrose?), was just wondering what u can do to get a better taste.


Ive heard people say they use malt extract or honey. Would this produce a better beer? If so what type of measurements would you use in place of the sugar? i.e 1kg of malt to replace 1kg of sugar?

 

[whoneedsabeer]

I've not head of a kit that dosen't have either Liquid Extract or Dry Extract. I don't think it would be beer without some sort of Malt extract.

Some kits have some small amount of crushed grains that you can steep in your water for 20-30 minutes to impart some additional flavor or color.

 

[ArcaneXor]

Using more malt extract instead of the sugar is definitely the way to go. Steeping grains would be the next step beyond that. If you are using pre-hopped malt extract now, consider using unhopped extracts and add hops separately during the boil.

Sugar yields about 1.046 ppg, liquid extract about 1.038 and dry extract about 1.045. In other words, you can replace the sugar with about the same amount of dried malt extract (spraymalt). If you use liquid extracts, you'd need about 1.2 kg of extract to replace 1 kg of sugar.

 

[dvdfnzwbr]

This is like putting a band aid on and open wound. I have heard this question to many times in homebrewing, and feel so sorry that people will try to disguise the truth. Your only happiness will be found in all grain brewing. Brewing from the freshest ingredients as close to their purest form. Have you ever heard of an All Grain brewer asking how to make his beer taste better? Now watch how the extract salesman flame me out for this post.

A small local beverage and state liquor store near me has a small corner dedicated to selling beer kits and brewing equipment. I asked the store owner if he sold ingredients and equipment for all grain brewing. He threw every con in the book at me for AG brewing making an attempt to talk me out of it. Stating that the majority of his customers are looking to buy extract kits so he doesn't stock anything else, and that all grain brewing is unnecessary. Basically gave me a bunch of $h!t to try and empty his own shelves. So beware of the salesmen on these forums.

 

[DoctorHops]

You can substitute dry malt extract for the sugar. Use the same amount. That should help a lot. You can also substitute liquid malt extract, but you will need to use about 20% more. If you go the liquid route, try to buy it from a supplier that sells in bulk, it will be fresher and taste better that way. In general light extracts are probably preferred, or no darker than what the kit you started with is.

You can also add aroma hops at the end of boiling to help the prehopped extract. Try 1 Oz of Amarillo added 2 minutes before the boil ends.

Substituting yeast may also help, try SafAle 05

Of course with all those additions you may as well skip the kit and just make an all extract recipe.

Fermenting at a constant and low temperature within the range of the yeast will help too.

 

[Grinder12000]

Originally Posted by dvdfnzwbr View Post
This is like putting a band aid on and open wound. I have heard this question to many times in homebrewing, and feel so sorry that people will try to disguise the truth. Your only happiness will be found in all grain brewing. Brewing from the freshest ingredients as close to their purest form. Have you ever heard of an All Grain brewer asking how to make his beer taste better? Now watch how the extract salesman flame me out for this post.

I agree - completely worthless post! Yet another uninformed All grain brewer think his technique is better.

johnrich85 - what kind of kits are you using - that is one key - there are good kits and bad kits and MOST kits instructions will assure you to have average mediocre and bland beer.

Austin Home Brew have pretty darn good fresh kits. What are you using dextrose for anyway ????

BTW - all grain brewing is unnecessary for making great beer.

 

[Shooter]

I'm with DoctorHops. There are several things you can do, but at some point you might want to just step up to an unhopped kit if you're going to be making that many changes.

At the minimum, I would substitute at least half of the dextrose, if not all of it, with light dry malt extract (DME). Sometimes a little bit of dextrose or table sugar can dry out the beer if you're not getting the attenuation you desire, but try it with at least half light DME. When I do an occasional Coopers kit I use 1 lb each of dextrose and light DME and 1/4 lb of maltodextrin. Every one I've tried produced decent beer. I don't swap out the yeast or add hops, because I'm usually just interested in an easy brew day with these kits and filling the pipeline. I'd say I've made good beer with pre-hopped cans, but I wouldn't call it great beer. It's good enough that I'd reach for a second pint. To me, that's the important test. If you have a way to control fermentation temperatures the beer can be even better. Temp. control has so far been the biggest improvement in my brewing, even more than, GASP, partial mashing!!!

EDIT: One quick addition, I also try to make sure the canned kits I buy are as fresh as possible, as I've seen a lot of these things sitting around on homebrew store shelves that are WAY past their use by date.

 

[slowbie]

I would echo the sentiments that many here have already expressed and recommend that you move up to extract with steeping grains kits. I don't know much about prehopped kits, but they can't be too much easier than extract and steeping grains. Brewer's Best and Austin Homebrew Supply are two good sources for these.

EDIT:

dvdfnzwbr apparently hasn't noticed that 99.999% of all problems that are posted on these forums are traced back to poor fermentation temperature management, underpitching, unsanitary practices, and green beer. All of these problems are typically beginner problems, and most beginners are extract brewers, which is the only reason the problems are correlated with extract. None of these problems will go away by switching to all-grain.

 

[gunner65]

This is like putting a band aid on and open wound. I have heard this question to many times in homebrewing, and feel so sorry that people will try to disguise the truth. Your only happiness will be found in all grain brewing. Brewing from the freshest ingredients as close to their purest form. Have you ever heard of an All Grain brewer asking how to make his beer taste better? Now watch how the extract salesman flame me out for this post.

A small local beverage and state liquor store near me has a small corner dedicated to selling beer kits and brewing equipment. I asked the store owner if he sold ingredients and equipment for all grain brewing. He threw every con in the book at me for AG brewing making an attempt to talk me out of it. Stating that the majority of his customers are looking to buy extract kits so he doesn't stock anything else, and that all grain brewing is unnecessary. Basically gave me a bunch of $h!t to try and empty his own shelves. So beware of the salesmen on these forums.

I do not see where this has ANY relevance to the subject or question that was originally posted.

 

[craven_morhead]

dvdfnzwbr, soap boxes go in the other room.

 

[rayg]

... 99.999% of all problems that are posted on these forums are traced back to poor fermentation temperature management, underpitching, unsanitary practices, and green beer. All of these problems are typically beginner problems, and most beginners are extract brewers, which is the only reason the problems are correlated with extract. None of these problems will go away by switching to all-grain.

That should be on the masthead of this newsgroup!

Ray

 

[dvdfnzwbr]

I have an idea how to improve the taste of kit beer. Mix it with beer that has been brewed from all grain. "Don't drink the salesmen's Kool Aid."

But in an effort to help answer your question, back in my kit brewing days, I divided a 5 gallon prehopped syrup brew 3 ways. One with a corn sugar addition, one with half sugar and half DME, and one with full DME. They all provided different degrees of malt taste. The better two were the ones with DME. You can add DME at the same volume as you do sugar. For a bold taste use two cans of extract syrup instead of sugar or DME.

In the meen time search Youtube for All Grain Brewing, Yeast Propagation, Yeast Starters, and read the free online book "How To Brew by John Palmer".
http://howtobrew.com/intro.html

 

[Yooper]

I have an idea how to improve the taste of kit beer. Mix it with beer that has been brewed from all grain. "Don't drink the salesmen's Kool Aid."

When judging some beer competitions, I found that some of the best beers I've tasted have been made from either extract with steeping grains, or partial mash. Of course, I didn't know that during the judging. I only knew when I later looked at the recipes.

Some of the worst beers I've had have been all-grain.

The truth is that good quality ingredients, proper techniques like temperature control and proper yeast pitching rates make the best beer. It can be extract, or all-grain.

Anybody who tells you that it must be all-grain to be the best you can make is just full of ****.

I will say that the best beer will NOT come from prehopped extract and brewing sugar. It will be possibly quite drinkable if you can keep the fermentation temperature in the mid 60s, but it won't be all that great.

If you can buy a kit with hops, extract and steeping grains, and either do a late addition of the extract or a full boil, you'll have a really good tasting beer!

Freshness counts- I suggest buying from a brewstore with a high turnover rate and one that crushes your grain when you order. A kit that's been sitting on a shelf for a while won't give you the same results as a freshly put together kit.

 

[dvdfnzwbr]

Who on earth would use a liquid syrup that need helps with grains to taste good in their beer.

 

[lady_brewer]

I normally brew using a kit and 1kg of brewing sugar (this is know as dextrose?), was just wondering what u can do to get a better taste.


Ive heard people say they use malt extract or honey. Would this produce a better beer? If so what type of measurements would you use in place of the sugar? i.e 1kg of malt to replace 1kg of sugar?

If you are using prehopped kits (where you add sugar and water only) then there are a couple of things that you can do do improve how they turn out.

One of these is to use something other than the sugar (as you have mentioned) you can sub in DME (Dried malt extract), pound for pound (from what the instructions say.) This changes the type of fermentables that you have. Dextrose ferments out about 95%, which can mean that you get thinner beers at the end of the process. Because the extract doesn't ferment out as much you get more body.

Also... you can change your process... if you are just following kit directions, you are not getting the most potential out of the kit. I would recommend leaving it for at least 3 weeks before bottling, and then leaving it in bottles 3-5 weeks (min) before drinking.

If you still aren't happy with your beer, then you may want to look at another method of brewing... that is to say try doing extract, or all grain. You can still buy kits for these, or you can put things together yourself. This lets you control the hops and the types of grains that you use, rather than relying on the concentrate that is in the pre-hopped kit.

AG means you can use some of the malts that are not available in extract form, as well as malts that can't be steeped (frankly I don't know anything about this, as I still have lots to learn).

There are lots of steps you can take to make better beer, and at some point to will find your comfort level on the involvement you want to have in the process.

Hope this helps!

 

[Schlenkerla]

Who on earth would use a liquid syrup that need helps with grains to taste good in their beer.

You removed any credibility you may have had with this statement.

Let me guess, your first decent home brew batch was all grain....

Typical home brewing progression; extract, extract with grain, partial mash, then all-grain.

Anybody who makes the statement that you can only make good beer with all grain didn't have a handle on the basic process nor did they do extracts long enough to get what they believe is a decent beer.

 

[Orfy]

dvdfnzwbr you are Trolling.

Stop it.

 

[Edcculus]

dvdfnzwbr you are Trolling.

Stop it.

I believe he has been put out of his misery. Orfy (or another mod). Would it be possible to delete all of dvdfnzwbr's comments from this thread? I feel like its a good topic, but his trolling really distracted everyone from the point.

Back on topic, I totally agree with Schlenkerla. Here are some things new brewers are not too careful about:

-Pitch the proper amount of yeast by making a starter.
-Pitch at the correct temperature. A lot of new brewers will pitch at 80F and complain about off flavors.
-Cool your wort (with a wort chiller) to 70F or lower before pitching.
-Maintain fermentation temperatures. Aim for about 65 with most ales. Use a swamp cooler. The Son of a Fermentation chiller is a pretty easy build too. Pink foam and liquid nails. Its ugly as sin but works great.
-Fresh extract.

I'd also look at getting extract kits from places like Austin Homebrew Supply. What you are currently buying sounds like a "kit and kilo" as in a can of extract a pound of sugar and maybe some hops. Forrests kits contain very fresh quality extract, usually steeping grains hops and anything else you need. By moving to quality ingredients you will find a huge improvement in how your beer turns out.

 

[GeorgeH]

Fresh ingredients and good processes are key. SWMBO was complaining about some off flavors in my beer and wanted me to go all grain to make better beer. I didn't spend a lot of time arguing with her that I didn't need more brewing equipment, so I am brewing all grain now.

I served her up an IPA I made and she loved it. Then I told her that was an extract beer. I had improved my fermentation technique, and switched to using fresh extract (in bulk from my LHBS). I believe that those things made a far bigger improvement on my beer than going all grain.

Fresh ingredients and good processes are key.

 

[Rentachik]

My 2cents...

Just because you get a kit does not mean the flavor is going to be inferior to a non kit beer. Austinhomebrew.com sell kits that are extract, partial, all grain, choice of yeaties... My LHBS sell Turebrew band kits. I have made a few. The Hefe.... Awesome. They also sell kits that they put together right there for you. You walk in and say I want the Mickey Finn 847 clone kit and they'll pull the ingredients off the shelf and hook you up. It is the same as if I said here is a list of ingredients for my next brew and they gathered them up for me.

So all and all I think it comes down to this. Find a good LHBS-take their advice, read the forums here, and always start with good yeast. If you get a kit from them, it'll turn out. I think the reason why some bash on the kits is because you don't really know how long it has been sitting there, yeast any good, hops stale...

 

[Orfy]

I believe he has been put out of his misery. Orfy (or another mod). Would it be possible to delete all of dvdfnzwbr's comments from this thread? I feel like its a good topic, but his trolling really distracted everyone from the point.

I would but would me subsequent posts wouldn't make sense.

 

[MonkeyWrench]

I would but would me subsequent posts wouldn't make sense.

Talk about not making sense

As far as extract only goes, I have an amber that people just love, genuinely. Simply extract, hops, orange zest, and yeast. I made a partial mash of it last weekend, we'll see if it turns out as good.

Don't listen to any haters. Extract starts off life as grain and is boiled and reduced. Extract is all grain brewing too. It's just someone else is handling the grain and packaging the wort for your use.

 

[Orfy]

"make"

Time to stop posting. It's making me spill my beer.

 

[johnrich85]

This is like putting a band aid on and open wound. I have heard this question to many times in homebrewing, and feel so sorry that people will try to disguise the truth. Your only happiness will be found in all grain brewing. Brewing from the freshest ingredients as close to their purest form. Have you ever heard of an All Grain brewer asking how to make his beer taste better? Now watch how the extract salesman flame me out for this post.

A small local beverage and state liquor store near me has a small corner dedicated to selling beer kits and brewing equipment. I asked the store owner if he sold ingredients and equipment for all grain brewing. He threw every con in the book at me for AG brewing making an attempt to talk me out of it. Stating that the majority of his customers are looking to buy extract kits so he doesn't stock anything else, and that all grain brewing is unnecessary. Basically gave me a bunch of $h!t to try and empty his own shelves. So beware of the salesmen on these forums.

Just learning the basics at the minute and it seems easier this way, ill get to that once i can perfect the kits!

 

[johnrich85]

You can substitute dry malt extract for the sugar. Use the same amount. That should help a lot. You can also substitute liquid malt extract, but you will need to use about 20% more. If you go the liquid route, try to buy it from a supplier that sells in bulk, it will be fresher and taste better that way. In general light extracts are probably preferred, or no darker than what the kit you started with is.

You can also add aroma hops at the end of boiling to help the prehopped extract. Try 1 Oz of Amarillo added 2 minutes before the boil ends.

Substituting yeast may also help, try SafAle 05

Of course with all those additions you may as well skip the kit and just make an all extract recipe.

Fermenting at a constant and low temperature within the range of the yeast will help too.

cheers, ill give it a try. Just wasnt sure what to replace the sugar with, and how much to use etc.

Im using Coopers canadian blonde kits at the minute Grinder.....