Get rid of haze

[rmolledo]

I know haze is all the rage these days but i’m trying to get rid if mine. My beers are coming out great and but there is always what seems to be a “permanent haze”.
I use an electric all in one system with a biab. Im starting to question if the BIAB has something to do with it. I skip the vourloff step because of it.
I use whirl-flock in every batch too.
I don’t cold crash because i bottle and don’t desire a slow bottle conditioning period.
I have had a few anomaly bottles that seem to be clear as a bell though which leaves me scratching my head.
Thanks for any input.

 

[day_trippr]

Pour a few ounces in a sampling glass, let it come to room temperature, and see what happens...

Cheers!

 

[Blazinlow86]

I know haze is all the rage these days but i’m trying to get rid if mine. My beers are coming out great and but there is always what seems to be a “permanent haze”.
I use an electric all in one system with a biab. Im starting to question if the BIAB has something to do with it. I skip the vourloff step because of it.
I use whirl-flock in every batch too.
I don’t cold crash because i bottle and don’t desire a slow bottle conditioning period.
I have had a few anomaly bottles that seem to be clear as a bell though which leaves me scratching my head.
Thanks for any input.

How long are you waiting for it to clear? A biab setup typically creates cloudy wort which can take longer to clear. Plus your not cold crashing so that will add more time etc. Maybe you just need to wait longer? cheers

 

[andrew oberlin]

Cold crashing and gelatin when it is cold will make a huge difference. The whirfloc actually should make the gelatin work better.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Haze and clarity related factors

* Proper pH of mash
* pH of the boil getting too low
* Good rolling boil, no wimpy boiling
* Boil for sufficient time, based on the grains used
* Chill the wort as rapidly as possible (immersion, counterflow, cube/waterbath, whatever)
* Types of grains used (proteins, polyphenols)
* Types of hops used (proteins, polyphenols, more low AA is better than less high AA)
* Unconverted starches
* Sack squeezing can be bad depending on grains and crush
* Stirring mash can be bad depending on grains and crush
* Low calcium levels
* Using too much finings (whirlfloc or irish moss)
* Using finings too early or too late in the boil
* Over milling the grains (husks get pulverized)
* Grains getting too hot during mash or sparge
* Yeast strain (higher flocculation strains=clearer, lower flocculation strains=cloudier)

No reason to skip a vorlauf to avoid haze or cloudiness. As long as the vorlauf is not too hot, and the pH is appropriate, a vorlauf is good for clarity, not bad.

Cold crashing will help solids sink out. If you are bottling, let the beer come back up to temp before doing your bottling, then rack or siphon the clear beer. You don't have to have "slow conditioning period". Or... when your bottles are done conditioning, stick them in the fridge. Does the same thing but will leave more schmutz in your bottles rather than your fermenter.

Whirlfloc/Irish Moss does absolutely nothing for chill haze

The more schmutz you get rid of before bottling, the less schmutz that will be in the bottles, that can be stirred up by handling, opening, and CO2 bubbles.

Like daytrippr mentioned, let some come up to room temp and see if it clears. If so, we might eliminate a few items on the list above.

 

[rmolledo]

Wow very helpful! A few things you mentioned might be the culprit. I’ll try the let the beer get to room temp experiment.

 

[Vale71]

Cold crashing will help solids sink out.

Actually it will slow them down a lot, but never let physics get in the way of a "cool" albeit wrong idea (pun intended ).

 

[Yooper]

I wrote this article years ago- but I think it's still valid: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/clear-wort-clear-beer.html

You can get very clear beer with BIAB and no special treatment just by using a few techniques. I still never use gelatin or other post-fermentation finings and have ultra clear beer.

 

[Jag75]

How many of you scoop out the hotbreak?

 

[Blazinlow86]

How many of you scoop out the hotbreak?

I do

 

[Vale71]

How many of you scoop out the hotbreak?

How is it even feasible? Filtering boiling wort seems impractical and possibly dangerous.

 

[Jag75]

How is it even feasible? Filtering boiling wort seems impractical and possibly dangerous.

Scoop out with a spoon. A long spoon. Or a small strainer . I've heard and seen some people do it .

 

[Vale71]

Scoop out with a spoon. A long spoon. I've heard and seen some people do it .

I think you're mistaking something else for hot break. Hot break material is thoroughly dispersed through the wort, as can be seen easily looking at a backlit sample of boiling wort starting 10-15 minutes after boil begin. To get it out during boiling would require some form of filtration which would be very impractical, besides making no difference to hot break separation at end of boil for example by means of a whirlpool.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Scoop out with a spoon. A long spoon. Or a small strainer . I've heard and seen some people do it .

I use a small strainer to scoop the foam/break whatever you wanna call it right as boil starts. Not sure it's better or not however I brew indoors and It seems to prevent boil overs. Cheers

 

[BBQB]

Are we talking about the foam?

 

[Jag75]

Yes the foam that the hot break causes .

 

[ba-brewer]

There a thick crud like thing that forms just ahead of the actual boil and the airy foam. I will occasionally skim it off but I don't think it make too much difference.

 

[ChaosB]

I have had a few anomaly bottles that seem to be clear as a bell though which leaves me scratching my head.

Already good suggestions in this thread. Was just going to ask if you were using different yeast for those anomaly batches. Different Flocculation..

EDIT: NVM, you said bottles, I read batches. It's late here.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I thought the "clear wort = clear beer" idea has been debunked.

I don't worry that much about the clarity of my beers. The only light colored beers I brew are hoppy, and they usually drop clear after 3-4 weeks in the keg. My darker (non-dry hopped) beers seem pretty clear earlier, but clarity is not a priority for a Porter/Stout/etc.

I brewed a batch today (Belgian Pale Ale) and I threw in a KICK Carrageenan tablet that came with a MoreBeer kit I got earlier this year. Wow, I was surprised how clear the wort was. I usually throw in some Irish Moss. I am curious to see how this impacts the initial clarity of the beer. I might switch over to these tablets or Whirlfloc.

 

[day_trippr]

All of those clarifiers are carrageenan based...

Cheers!

 

[Blazinlow86]

I thought the "clear wort = clear beer" idea has been debunked.

I don't worry that much about the clarity of my beers. The only light colored beers I brew are hoppy, and they usually drop clear after 3-4 weeks in the keg. My darker (non-dry hopped) beers seem pretty clear earlier, but clarity is not a priority for a Porter/Stout/etc.

I brewed a batch today (Belgian Pale Ale) and I threw in a KICK Carrageenan tablet that came with a MoreBeer kit I got earlier this year. Wow, I was surprised how clear the wort was. I usually throw in some Irish Moss. I am curious to see how this impacts the initial clarity of the beer. I might switch over to these tablets or Whirlfloc.

Depends on your specific meaning of clear wort=clear beer. If you mean its possible to get clear finished product without clear wort I would say that's generally agreed upon. I'd also say it's generally agreed upon by the profession brewing world and homebrewers (at least the ones that have the capability to produce clear wort) that starting with clear wort generally produces a clear finished product much faster and is the preferred method. Any beer will clear with enough time. Just depends on your specific goals. Of course there are other reasons clear wort is preferred at least professionally but that's a whole new conversation. Cheers

 

[SoCal-Doug]

I thought the "clear wort = clear beer" idea has been debunked.

Totally debunked. The two are not always related. You can have crystal clear wort and beer that permanently looks like a heffy. You can also have muddy wort and the beer clears perfectly quickly and easily.

When it comes to clarity, there's a lot of factors and many different that will cloud or haze a beer.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Totally debunked. The two are not always related. You can have crystal clear wort and beer that permanently looks like a heffy. You can also have muddy wort and the beer clears perfectly quickly and easily.

When it comes to clarity, there's a lot of factors and many different that will cloud or haze a beer.

Good point. The wort going into my kettle on my neipas is always crystal clear but obviously the end product is not so styles can make a difference. But if I brew a clear blond ale on my biab system vs my traditional the traditional will always turn over a clear end product faster. But again depending on your specific needs it may be a total waste of time and money and not make any difference for your specific situation. Cheers

 

[day_trippr]

Good point. The wort going into my kettle on my neipas is always crystal clear [...]

You're not using enough whirlpool hops...

Cheers!

 

[Blazinlow86]

You're not using enough whirlpool hops...

Cheers!

The wort going **into** the kettle..... Cheers

 

[day_trippr]

Ah - ok, that's completely different (totally missed it )

Cheers!

 

[Blazinlow86]

Ah - ok, that's completely different (totally missed it )

Cheers!

Start to finish. Cheers

 

[robcj]

Someone at Brulosophy refers to gelatin as "powdered time." I've come to learn it forgives many brewing sins. Seriously, once you start using it, you'll never go back. Usually I cold crash my fermenter, add gelatin and wait 24 hours before kegging. I'll pour a pint of gunk or so after force carbing but after that, it's crystal clear. I believe the effect is the same when bottling.

 

[Nagorg]

So nice to hear folks trying to get their beer clear again!

 

[SoCal-Doug]

So nice to hear folks trying to get their beer clear again!

[here's where I get flamed by the masses]

In most cases, we pay attention to gravities, SRM, IBU's, using the correct grains. We mash at specific temps and shoot for good efficiency. We work hard to make good beer, and if competing, make everything correct to style. We study and learn and spend big bucks on our equipment to do things right. We get OCD on cleanliness and hygiene so our batch doesn't go south. So... If a beer style is generally accepted as "should have good/high clarity", why would a brewer give up and say "screw it, I dont mind cloudy beer". The factors that effect clarity are part of the brewing processes and the knowledge base that should be as known and practiced as any other facet of the batch. It seams to be something that a lot of people just give up on. There's just too many tools and concepts available to help most clarity issues, to ignore. We all know that cloudy beer will not taste different and its not infected or bad in any way. But our non-brewing friends that enjoy our efforts may not easily accept a crispy refreshing California common or cream ale that looks like mud.

If i'm making something like a czech lager, pale, amber, or irish red, I expect that the product coming out of the tap will be brite. If not, i'm going to review my notes and try to figure out what I did to cause the lack of clarity. If i'm making a batch that is expected to be cloudy, like a heffy, saison, certain stouts, or sour, I will expect it to not drop clear in a week.