Ive drank a handfull of german beers. It seems to me that they all have a very similar taste. Like they use the same base malt. Even different styles from hefe to pils. Can anyone tell me what this malty almost sweet flavor is coming from???????????
While I agree with HB_99... I generally always do, and if I may add... German beer is generally malt-focused. Not only is it not hop-focused, it's not even really balanced. There's a definite weight towards malt flavor. I think you have a good observation about base malt. Most German beers have a large percentage of German Pilsner malt and I think German Pilsner malt has a fairly distinct flavor... even slightly different than Belgian Pilsner. Combine this with clean lager yeasts (except of course for weizens), and only a limited variety of German noble hops, and I think you've got your common flavor profile.
Does anyone else find that German lagers tend to be a hair drier than their American craftbrewed counterparts?
Beer is serious stuff to a German...Maybe its from the decocting. Lets be honest, the Germans don't screw around when it comes to bier...
They're made from REAL barley malt and not overly bitter like American beers, would be my first guess...
Trivial trivia: The first German beer recipe was found in Kulmbach in 800 BCE.
I love a good Kulmbacher. What's BCE? Don't you mean 800 BC?
Maybe its from the decocting.
You'd be surprised how rare decoction has become in German brewing. Especially when it comes to the ligher styles like Pilsner and Helles. None of the really big breweries (Bittburger, Warsteiner, Radeberger) use decoction for their beers.
Why is that Kai? I know the malt is a lot more modified these days, but I can't see that compensating for decocting. Evan! got me into decocting and I love the results...
It costs more energy and more so it costs more time. There have been a number of studies that, at least for light colored beers, decoction doesn't add anything that couldn't be added otherwise or hardly any of the trained tasters would be able to taste a difference. The "robust" character that it adds (or is supposed to add) doesn't go well with the delicate nature of the German Pils either. In addition to that it was more of a southern German thing as well. The northern German parts, which were influenced by the british infusion mashing techinque, never had a decoction tradition anyway.
Kai
Very interesting. I didn't realize northern DE was influenced by Britain. Thanks for educating me on that...
I came across that when reading about the history of Koelsch brewing. And the traditional brewery I visited when I went back last year doesn't do decoction either.
There has been a big discussion on the NB forum about that, which led me to contact Warsteiner and ask them how they brew because one of the members was very convinced that they must decoct their beers and I told him that it is very unlikely that they do that. And they don't.
I'll pay more attention to that when I go back for vacation next week. And even try to talk to brewers about that.
I don't want to say that you all have to stop decocting now. Home brewing is great in keeping these practices alive, but you need to keep in mind that you don't have the malts of old anymore and that if you decoct, you need to adapt the process to the modern malt. Something that I want to ask as well.
Kai
I don't want to say that you all have to stop decocting now. Home brewing is great in keeping these practices alive, but you need to keep in mind that you don't have the malts of old anymore and that if you decoct, you need to adapt the process to the modern malt. Something that I want to ask as well.
Hopefully they're not too secretive...
What Soulive said...it's the new BC...I love a good Kulmbacher. What's BCE? Don't you mean 800 BC?
I'm not an AG'er, but isn't that something you guys can do yourself?...Spitzmalz is severely undermodified malt and used by Germans to compensate high malt modification because they can't use unmalted barley instead (purity law thing). Kai
Mensch, I have a hard time getting malt batch specs (not average specs) from Weyermann. They won't release them to small consumers and my supplier (Crosby Baker) doesn't have them either. I plan to contact North Country malt to see if they can send batch analysis results with the Best Malz they are selling.
I ordered a bunch of different types of malt from them, including a sack of Best Malz pilsner malt. They sent the malt analysis for every type I ordered... even the Cara-Pils. It's really improved my brewing.
Is that malt analysis for the particular batch or an average for the harvest?
Looks like I'll be doing that as well. I think I should also contact Weyermann about that. How difficult could it be to set up a database online where home brewers can plug in the number from the malt bag.
Kai
Dec. 4 2007
22.000 kg German quality malt, Pilsen Malt, 2007 crop.
Ocean Vessel: Ottowa Express
Contract: Best103
Date of B/L: Antwerp Nov. 27, 2007
Container No.: OOLU 742 144-1
Analysis
Moisture Contents, %.................................4.4
Extract, fine grind, dry basis, %....................82.6
Extract difference, %..................................1.2
Speed of Filtration......................................normal
Clarity of wort...........................................clear
Clour of wort, EBC......................................3.8
Total protein, dry basis, %...........................10.9
Soluble nitrogen, g/100g malt on dry basis.......0.722
Hartong value 45dC, %................................39.9
Viscosity, mpa/sec......................................1.48
Friability, %...............................................85.6
Saccharification, min...................................10-15
I'm not an AG'er, but isn't that something you guys can do yourself?
Check, I was thinking if you guys purchased the unmodified malt you could mod it yourself. It wasn't anything I've ever read about on this forum so I was curious. Thanks.Modification is is something that malting houses control. Brewers can adjust the mash schedule to compensate for undermodified malts with different temperature rests (or decoction, as mentioned) but unless you're specifically looking for undermodified malt, you'll find mostly well-modified malt for brewing.
It shows 0.7.. soluble nitrogen in 100g and it also lists 10.9g protein in 100g. Generally the soluble nitrogen (SNR) is in the order of 35 .. 46% of the protein. 0.7g of 10.9 g is barely 10%.
Check, I was thinking if you guys purchased the unmodified malt you could mod it yourself. It wasn't anything I've ever read about on this forum so I was curious. Thanks.
So, even Pilsner malts these days are modified to where a simple infusion, with maybe a protein rest, is adequate?
So, even Pilsner malts these days are modified to where a simple infusion, with maybe a protein rest, is adequate?
John Palmer, How To Brew: In fact, using a protein rest on fully modified malts tends to remove most of the body of a beer, leaving it thin and watery. Most base malt in use in the world today is fully modified.
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