Genny cream ale

[millerd66]

I saw some posts recipes about an extract of Genny Cream ale, using Pilsner malt etc. I tried to make a cream ale but did not use Pilsner malt but will try again, but my question is this how do you avoid maillaird reaction and having this golden beer turn kind of brownish in a 60 minute boil?
Is it possible to boil only part of the extract in the beginning lets say 1/3 and add the rest at the very end and simmer till it cooks out ?
Or is it possible to just not do a 60 minute boil?

Thanks

I miss my Genny

 

[RM-MN]

Complex question. Do you know why the recipe calls for a 60 minute boil? It's because of two things. One is to maximize the isomerization of the hop oils (fancy way to say extract bitterness). The other is to reduce the volume of wort, mostly used in all grain where you sparge (fancy way to say rinse the remaining sugars from the grain after the mash is completed and drained). You don't need to reduce the volume as you only need to add the amount of water needed. You also don't need to get maximum isomerization as a 30 minute boil will get about 90% of that. If you think you need the exact bitterness, add a tiny bit of hops to the 30 minute boil.

Since extract has already been boiled in the process of producing it you really don't need to boil it again but using a smaller amount of it when boiling the hops will produce the bitterness you intend so add 1/4 to 1/3 of the extract to the boil, then when the boil period is complete, add the rest, making sure that the combined wort is above 160 degrees F. to ensure pasteurization.

 

[VikeMan]

Malt extracts, either dry malt extract or especially liquid malt extract, will always be a little darker than the wort from an equivalent All Grain mash, due to oxidation.

You mentioned that you didn't use "Pilsner malt," But from context, I assume you mean you used some type of extract other than a pilsner extract. So maybe try using something like Briess Pilsen Light DME, and see if that gets you a color that's light enough.

And yes, you can add your extract later in the boil to reduce Maillard reactions, which is something that makes any wort darken during the boil.

 

[millerd66]

Complex question. Do you know why the recipe calls for a 60 minute boil? It's because of two things. One is to maximize the isomerization of the hop oils (fancy way to say extract bitterness). The other is to reduce the volume of wort, mostly used in all grain where you sparge (fancy way to say rinse the remaining sugars from the grain after the mash is completed and drained). You don't need to reduce the volume as you only need to add the amount of water needed. You also don't need to get maximum isomerization as a 30 minute boil will get about 90% of that. If you think you need the exact bitterness, add a tiny bit of hops to the 30 minute boil.

Since extract has already been boiled in the process of producing it you really don't need to boil it again but using a smaller amount of it when boiling the hops will produce the bitterness you intend so add 1/4 to 1/3 of the extract to the boil, then when the boil period is complete, add the rest, making sure that the combined wort is above 160 degrees F. to ensure pasteurization.

Okay good so as I had though boil 1/3 in the beginning, and then add the rest keep it above 160 for the above mentioned reasons. Can I do a 30 minute boil initially to avoid any carmelization at all or very minimal?

 

[millerd66]

Malt extracts, either dry malt extract or especially liquid malt extract, will always be a little darker than the wort from an equivalent All Grain mash, due to oxidation.

You mentioned that you didn't use "Pilsner malt," But from context, I assume you mean you used some type of extract other than a pilsner extract. So maybe try using something like Briess Pilsen Light DME, and see if that gets you a color that's light enough.

And yes, you can add your extract later in the boil to reduce Maillard reactions, which is something that makes any wort darken during the boil.

Yeah not sure what I used to be honest. So round two I will definitely only boil 1/3 add the rest when the boil is done, to avoid carmelization. Can I get away with an initial 30 min boil?

 

[VikeMan]

Yeah not sure what I used to be honest. So round two I will definitely only boil 1/3 add the rest when the boil is done, to avoid carmelization. Can I get away with an initial 30 min boil?

With extract, you can get away with a boil as short as you like, but keep in mind that you need to isomerize the alpha acids in your hops, and that takes time.

 

[millerd66]

With extract, you can get away with a boil as short as you like, but keep in mind that you need to isomerize the alpha acids in your hops, and that takes time.

Good point. Thank you! I guess I will still do the 60 but since I will dramatically reduce the amount of sugar in the initial boil, chances of carmelizing will reduce enough. I appreciate the help.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Take a look at the process @D.B.Moody uses for his extract beers. Delaying much of the DME until the end has a couple benefits, hop utilization for one.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/i-brewed-a-favorite-recipe-today.687986/post-9256807

 

[RM-MN]

You also don't need to get maximum isomerization as a 30 minute boil will get about 90% of that. If you think you need the exact bitterness, add a tiny bit of hops to the 30 minute boil.

Good point. Thank you! I guess I will still do the 60 but since I will dramatically reduce the amount of sugar in the initial boil, chances of carmelizing will reduce enough. I appreciate the help.

 

[D.B.Moody]

Good point. Thank you! I guess I will still do the 60 but since I will dramatically reduce the amount of sugar in the initial boil, chances of carmelizing will reduce enough.

Wait, you're missing the point of the late addition: it will more than make up for the 10% reduction in hop utilization from the 30 minute boil. The rule of thumb I use says that a 50% late addition increases hop utilization 20%. The result of a 30 minute boil with a late addition of half the extract is a 10% gain in hop utilization.
If that late addition is dissolved in unheated water 1/3 the volume of the boil, the late addition will bring the temperature of the wort to about 170-175.