Gas or Electric?

[Strong_Brews]

I just moved and my new stove isn’t giving me the big rolling boil I want/need for brewing.
Looking to see what you guys think about upgrading to Gas or Electric?

My local home brew store let me rent their Blichmann 10 gallon boilermaker G2 with the boilcoil and tower of power (120v). I had a really hard time getting it to boil. When it finally started boiling it was a very light boil. Maybe I was doing something wrong idk.

The photo is of the boil at its highest. View attachment 598530

 

[grampamark]

Well, it looks like you won't have to figure much volume loss due to boil off.

If the temp of the wort reaches the boiling point you will have killed any bugs and are above the temp needed to isomerize the hops. A volcanic quality boil isn't required.

For 5 gal batches, a 30 amp, 240v circuit is preferable (7200 Watts vs 2400 watts). Depending on your circumstances, having the electrical work necessary done may not fit your budget, floor plan, available brewing space, etc.

Gas, using an inexpensive turkey fryer, is the cheapest option, but means brewing outdoors. Depending on your climate that might not be a bad choice. If you live where there are 5 months of winter or 5 months where AC is required, maybe not so much.

An inexpensive heat stick to help put your existing stove might be the simplest choice. It all depends on what you want to do, wrt brewing, in your new residence, compared to what you are used to.

 

[Rev2010]

Get one of these when they are back in stock and use it in conjunction with gas on stovetop and you should be good to go: https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotrodrtu.htm


Rev.

 

[bracconiere]

I'm an idiot and no one should do this. But i took a knife and just ever so slightly bored my orifices on my gas stove to get a bigger flame.

 

[grampamark]

 

[bracconiere]

not yet, but i did have to replace my oven control board and start using a heat shield when i brew on it....

 

[tellyho]

Love my electric kettle, but it's a lot of infrastructure to put in. 240v 5500 kW element means boiling 5 gal in 20 min.

 

[Strong_Brews]

I'm an idiot and no one should do this. But i took a knife and just ever so slightly bored my orifices on my gas stove to get a bigger flame.

I’ve converted stoves from propane to Natural gas. Those flame dampers are tricky to mess with.

 

[Strong_Brews]

Well, it looks like you won't have to figure much volume loss due to boil off.

If the temp of the wort reaches the boiling point you will have killed any bugs and are above the temp needed to isomerize the hops. A volcanic quality boil isn't required.

For 5 gal batches, a 30 amp, 240v circuit is preferable (7200 Watts vs 2400 watts). Depending on your circumstances, having the electrical work necessary done may not fit your budget, floor plan, available brewing space, etc.

Gas, using an inexpensive turkey fryer, is the cheapest option, but means brewing outdoors. Depending on your climate that might not be a bad choice. If you live where there are 5 months of winter or 5 months where AC is required, maybe not so much.

An inexpensive heat stick to help put your existing stove might be the simplest choice. It all depends on what you want to do, wrt brewing, in your new residence, compared to what you are used to.

Great info thanks!

 

[Strong_Brews]

Get one of these when they are back in stock and use it in conjunction with gas on stovetop and you should be good to go: https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotrodrtu.htm


Rev.

This might be just what I need to get me over the hump until I can find a more permanent solution.

 

[bracconiere]

This might be just what I need to get me over the hump until I can find a more permanent solution.

If you do go for the hot rod stick. i'd recommend something like this for heat control, works for my 1500w hot plate great. But is only 1500watt capable.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-Router...5A/292667273354?hash=item442454308a:rk:1:pf:0

 

[mongoose33]

There's beginning to be new ideas about the boil. It used to be that one wanted a vigorous boil; now many are arguing a simmer is better than vigorous, in part because it's supposed to enhance the shelf life.

 

[Strong_Brews]

I just returned the kettle to the brew store. They said they like a “gentle” boil. They watched the video I took of the boil (see original pic) and said “it looks right to me”.


They are also going to try it outside to see if they can get it up to a boil in a colder environment.

 

[bracconiere]

There's beginning to be new ideas about the boil. It used to be that one wanted a vigorous boil; now many are arguing a simmer is better than vigorous, in part because it's supposed to enhance the shelf life.

i did start simmering, or lightly boiling when i was using propane. because propane is expensive! made the difference of 5 dollars instead of 8....or 33.7 cents a twelve pack....

 

[Rev2010]

If you do go for the hot rod stick. i'd recommend something like this for heat control, works for my 1500w hot plate great. But is only 1500watt capable.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-Router...5A/292667273354?hash=item442454308a:rk:1:pf:0

If he uses it on stovetop there's no need for a controller, he can simply raise and lower the gas as needed to control the boil. With just the heatstick alone and no gas applied he'll get the usual gentle boil (for a typical start of 6-6.5 gallons pre-boil volume) and with a 10g kettle he wouldn't have to worry about boil overs.


Rev.

 

[Strong_Brews]

Does anyone prefer gas to electric? If so why?

 

[bracconiere]

If he uses it on stovetop there's no need for a controller, he can simply raise and lower the gas as needed to control the boil. With just the heatstick alone and no gas applied he'll get the usual gentle boil (for a typical start of 6-6.5 gallons pre-boil volume) and with a 10g kettle he wouldn't have to worry about boil overs.


Rev.

good point, but 1500 watts will get a good boil going on it's own...you are right though, didn't even think about the burner being 'controllable', lol

just when i'm using my hot plate (1500w) with 7 gals, i have to lower the wattage to around 500 to keep a simmer...

Does anyone prefer gas to electric? If so why?

I prefer 'Natural' gas because it's cheap. both propane AND electricity are expensive. i brew a 10 gal batch on my stove for ????? doesn't effect my bill but i think less than a dollar, after checking my outside meter before and after...

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

Does anyone prefer gas to electric? If so why?

I went electric about 10 years ago and I'll never go back to propane. The ability to brew inside, independent of the weather is the absolute best reason to go electric.

Yes, it's more expensive for the infrastructure but it's totally worth it to me. Not having to plan brewing sessions around storms, being able to brew in the summer or winter and still be comfortable makes the up-front cost totally worth it to me. Also, not having to make sure you have a full spare propane tank on-hand means one less thing to plan for. Brewing can be a lot more spontaneous when you find you have a spare day available.

As for the cost of electricity vs. the cost of gas, with electric, 100% of the heat generated goes into the wort. I can't say for sure what the efficiency of gas is, but I'd be surprised if it's much more than 30%, which would mean 70% of the heat is lost, so there is a lot of wasted cost there.

For example, I have a 4500W heating element in my kettle, which I run around 50% power during the boil. 4.5kw * .5 * $.15/kw-hr * 1 hr = $0.34. There's more heat involved in the mash and sparge water, but let's assume it's about the same as the boil, so that's another $0.34. Overall, less than $1 per brewing session. That's a lot less than propane!

 

[mongoose33]

One thing that can be done to improve the boil is wrap some insulation around the boil kettle (assuming electric, of course).

Having just switched to electric from propane in August, I can say I'd never go back to propane unless forced to go back.

Yeah, there are some savings in fuel costs...probably pay for the upgrades in the year 2038. But that's not the reason to do it. Can do it indoors, can use a steam catcher instead of a big hood/vent, it's faster, it can be working without having to monitor it...lots of great reasons.

What it isn't is as cheap as propane. If one already has 220-volt power available, it can be much cheaper, but I had to run it from my main panel to the garage. That required some 6-gauge wire (not cheap, but planning for possible future expansion), sub-panel box plus breakers (including 30-amp GFCI), wire chases, upgrade the kettle with new ports and electric element, control panel for the system, electrician to make connections....by the time all that was done, I was looking at $1200+. I sold off some stuff to help pay for it, but still.

And that doesn't include the RIMS system.

But man...is it ever worth it.

 

[Strong_Brews]

There's beginning to be new ideas about the boil. It used to be that one wanted a vigorous boil; now many are arguing a simmer is better than vigorous, in part because it's supposed to enhance the shelf life.

I found an interesting article on boil vigor.

http://brulosophy.com/2017/05/29/boil-vigor-weak-vs-strong-exbeeriment-results/

 

[mongoose33]

I found an interesting article on boil vigor.

http://brulosophy.com/2017/05/29/boil-vigor-weak-vs-strong-exbeeriment-results/

It....has its issues. One is that they're not testing shelf life, which is one of the supposed benefits of doing a simmer instead of a vigorous boil.

Another is their testing procedures are suspect. For instance, they don't present the two different beers to testers in a random fashion, and there's no control over what people were eating or drinking just prior to the test. If testers were drinking Zombie Dust before the test, how likely is it they'll be able to pick up on subtle differences between the test beers?

I think the brulosophy experimenters do a good job at controlling extraneous influences and managing the process. It's too bad the testing protocol essentially renders the results meaningless.

 

[Wizard_of_Frobozz]

I found an interesting article on boil vigor.

http://brulosophy.com/2017/05/29/boil-vigor-weak-vs-strong-exbeeriment-results/

It's an interesting article, and it's worth experimenting with to see how boil vigor affects things.

However, it used well modified pale malt as the base malt for the experiment. I'd like to see it done again with the base malt being pilsner malt and specifically look at the DMS reduction. A pilsner recipe would be better suited for this; especially should not include any dark malts.

If all you do is beers with highly modified malt, then a simmer might be OK. If you want a system that can be versatile and brew with a lot of different malts, then I think you'd want the ability to have a vigorous boil. I'm all for challenging conventional wisdom, but I'd want proof that it's not needed before designing a system around a simmer.

 

[Strong_Brews]

It's an interesting article, and it's worth experimenting with to see how boil vigor affects things.

However, it used well modified pale malt as the base malt for the experiment. I'd like to see it done again with the base malt being pilsner malt and specifically look at the DMS reduction. A pilsner recipe would be better suited for this; especially should not include any dark malts.

If all you do is beers with highly modified malt, then a simmer might be OK. If you want a system that can be versatile and brew with a lot of different malts, then I think you'd want the ability to have a vigorous boil. I'm all for challenging conventional wisdom, but I'd want proof that it's not needed before designing a system around a simmer.

So in other words don’t buy the 120v...

 

[ensano]

Love my electric kettle, but it's a lot of infrastructure to put in. 240v 5500 kW element means boiling 5 gal in 20 min.

I was lucky enough to invest in a similar system with the ez boil pid. Brew days are so simple that when I have friends over they ask, "is that it?"

I think it took a lot of the "chore" part out of brewing

 

[gnef]

I converted to electric from propane over natural gas. I'm very happy I did, like many others here on the board.

It was expensive for me, I had to run about 70 ft of 6 gauge wiring for the 50 amp sub panel I put in, vent hood, etc.

I know natural gas would've been less expensive to run - natural gas is pretty cheap right now. I much prefer electric over dealing with a flame though and making sure I have enough makeup air to not kill myself. I still need makeup air to vent the steam, but if I don't, it won't kill me, which is a plus.

I had a spot that I could put everything permanently, which helped with the conversion, and I did all the kettle modifications myself which helped with the cost, and I also built really simple control panels which also kept the costs down. There are ways to cut some costs down, but things like wire and breaker GFCI are things that I would make sure to spend good money on.

 

[4of7]

Does anyone prefer gas to electric? If so why?

I really like indoor electric... Like to brew inside,,out of the weather,, I don't like to swap out tanks during the Brew day

 

[logdrum]

Does anyone prefer gas to electric? If so why?

I use a hybrid RIMS: Electric mash control through a 120v Blichmann RIMS Rocket w NG HLT & BK. I live in NE Ohio & brew in my attached garage, so maybe once a year the start of the brew day is a bit chilly, otherwise, love the hybrid!

 

[Dog House Brew]

Get one of these when they are back in stock and use it in conjunction with gas on stovetop and you should be good to go: https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotrodrtu.htm


Rev.

This ^^^^^

 

[Dland]

Does anyone prefer gas to electric? If so why?

I brewed many batches with propane burners, and that worked great, made a lot of good beer. There are less moving parts, and you do not need a good high voltage power supply, or any power at all if you use gravity.

All you need to to do convert a brewing kettle from gas to electric is add a tri clamp ferule for heating element. Put an end cap on ferule if you want to go back to gas.

I added capability to run electric in my 3 keggle . Was using propane grill tanks for gas, it costs a lot less to run electric. And with the right controller, there is much more precise control of temps, and you can set the temp for water to what you want and walk away for a while and it will not over shoot desired temp the way a burner would.

 

[augiedoggy]

You'll likely find most of the comment about preferring some form of flame setup are from folks that have not actually used an adiquit electric setup.. at least that's usually the type of responses. Electric is a large upgrade. Imo steam is the only thing that has advantages.

 

[AkTom]

Oh I’m a gas only bonehead. I have never even been near an electric rig. I’d swap my gas for anyone’s electric in a heartbeat.

 

[bracconiere]

You'll likely find most of the comment about preferring some form of flame setup are from folks that have not actually used an adiquit electric setup.. at least that's usually the type of responses. Electric is a large upgrade. Imo steam is the only thing that has advantages.

I guess that's me. all this talk about elec got me wondering now. i went from propane for years to natural gas. i do have a 220v plug for my elec dryer...

something for me to think about.

 

[beernutz]

Does anyone prefer gas to electric? If so why?

I won't say I prefer gas over electric because I've never used electric. However, for a number of reasons gas, in my case natural gas supplied by my house, is better for my situation.

One reason is that I don't have room inside my house for an electric rig so temporarily setting one up in my garage would be my only option. I don't have a 30 or 50 amp circuit in the garage so that would have to be added plus I'd have to move a car out when I wanted to brew and also need a place to store the rig between brews. For me a single vessel electric BIAB setup would be the only garage system that would work and while I like and sometimes use BIAB I prefer my 3 vessel system.

My natural gas 3 vessel HERMS system just requires removing a cover to use. If I want I can roll it out from under my deck into the sunshine which is a nice way to brew in the spring and fall or even winter here on the gulf coast. It is very economical to run and I never run out of fuel not to mention it is very good at holding mash temps and producing very clear wort.

I am in no way criticizing electric brewing but just pointing out that it may not be the best option for everyone.

 

[augiedoggy]

I guess that's me. all this talk about elec got me wondering now. i went from propane for years to natural gas. i do have a 220v plug for my elec dryer...

something for me to think about.

I guess it is, to be honest I didnt read all the posts in the thread I just have seen dozens of others that usually play out the same way. Like with anything like this it's often those that dont really know what they are missing or are content with what they have so didnt try anything else.

 

[bracconiere]

I guess it is, to be honest I didnt read all the posts in the thread I just have seen dozens of others that usually play out the same way. Like with anything like this it's often those that dont really know what they are missing or are content with what they have so didnt try anything else.

I looked at a 15 gal kettle, $560. mine was 200, so not to much difference. and a 220v 30A controller is 250, plus 36 for a 18' power cord. and it would plug into my dryer socket.. It would be nice to brew out side again, and have a clean stove.

Be awhile before i get an extra grand to spend, but definitely gives me something to think about.

 

[augiedoggy]

I read up here and learned how to build me own panel and kettles.. bought open box stainless bayou classic 16 gallon kettles from Ebay and Amazon for $125 shipped and added one of the weldless tri clamp bulkheads for $25 from brew hardware and the tri clamp bases 5500w elements (I bought mine through Alibaba a for $31 shipped but there alavilable from many places for $50 to $85 with shipping) I made a few different control panels over the years but if your one a budget I'd look at stilldragon.com s kit. All and all you could have an electric 16 gallon. Stainless setup for about $250..

 

[beernutz]

I guess it is, to be honest I didnt read all the posts in the thread I just have seen dozens of others that usually play out the same way. Like with anything like this it's often those that dont really know what they are missing or are content with what they have so didnt try anything else.

My next system will be electric--either a DIY one or something pre-built. My wife and I are planning to build a house in 5 or 6 years and an indoor electric brew room is definitely in my future. The fact that there's no natural gas available on that property is irrelevant.

 

[bracconiere]

I read up here and learned how to build me own panel and kettles.. bought open box stainless bayou classic 16 gallon kettles from Ebay and Amazon for $125 shipped and added one of the weldless tri clamp bulkheads for $25 from brew hardware and the tri clamp bases 5500w elements (I bought mine through Alibaba a for $31 shipped but there alavilable from many places for $50 to $85 with shipping) I made a few different control panels over the years but if your one a budget I'd look at stilldragon.com s kit. All and all you could have an electric 16 gallon. Stainless setup for about $250..

for 250 i could buy myself a xmas present!

 

[4of7]

Oh I’m a gas only bonehead. I have never even been near an electric rig. I’d swap my gas for anyone’s electric in a heartbeat.

I tried gas rig once before going all in to electic . There is nothing wrong with what works for you and your brew day, it is about the beer you like to drink and share

 

[4of7]

Oh I’m a gas only bonehead. I have never even been near an electric rig. I’d swap my gas for anyone’s electric in a heartbeat.

Gas, 10 gallon biab,,it was fun