Gahhhhh Efficiency!

[theganda]

I can't seem to get my efficiency up. I got about 67% today and don't think it was because of the mill (got it from brewmasters). Could it be that I'm draining my runnings too quickly? I usually vorlauf then let it do its thing at full throttle. Also, I made a hefeweizen today and my mash was at 150 degrees. I tried to pull some out, boil it, and put it back in, but it barely made any difference at all. What kind of adverse effects should I get from this hiccup?

 

[schweaty]

For some reason a lot of brewers think that efficiency is extremely important. Perhaps in a brewery where they use hundreds of pounds of grain it can make a HUGE difference cost wise. At home, its really not that big of a deal in my opinion.

I used to think that efficiency was so important and so I tightened up the gap on my mill. I ended up with a stuck sparge and it was a complete nightmare. I usually hit around the low 70's and thats ok with me. You just have to plan on getting that efficiency and springing a few extra bucks to buy a little more grain.

It doesn't matter if your efficiency is 90% or 60%, making great beer depends on all of your OTHER brewing practices. RDWHAHB

 

[WorryWort]

For some reason a lot of brewers think that efficiency is extremely important. It doesn't matter if your efficiency is 90% or 60%, making great beer depends on all of your OTHER brewing practices. RDWHAHB

+1 on this. I get 70-75% and I am happy. Jamil Zainasheff gets 70% and has a roomful of awards proving that it doesn't negatively affect his beer. He actual prefers it there.

First of all though, make sure you are measuring your volumes precisely. It's hard to be certain if you get too much or too little water or collected wort into the equation.

Secondly, some systems just don't get the efficiency of others. So don't worry.

Sparge speed can have a big impact though. Are you fly sparging or batch sparging? - for the latter, speed doesn't matter.

 

[z987k]

Measurements correct at stated above? Mash pH? Amount of mash and sparge water? Single or Double sparge? Do you let the sparge water sit before draining? What is you mash efficiency? What is you lauter efficiency?

Answer those and we can help you a lot more. In fact answer those, and you've answered your own question.

 

[boredatwork]

The efficiency alone may not be important. But I think it is important to know why your efficiency is what it is.

For example, if you are getting 60%, from a recipe perspective you can say you are spending a little more on grain than someone who can get to 80%. Which I agree is a silly point. However, if you are hitting 60% because you are not hitting you mash temp, for example, that will effect not only your grain bill but also the beer as well.

The point still stands that you don't need a great efficiency to make great beer, but that doesn't mean a low efficiency is inherently OK. If you are getting a low efficiency I think you should find out why before determining that it doesn't matter. If it was from wort loss or something innocent (at least as far as taste is concerned) then I think it doesn't matter. But if your thermometer is wrong and you are mashing at 146F instead of 156F, that is something you may or may not be OK with.

 

[adamjab19]

I'm beginning to think that a thermometer can make or break you and every single one will give you a different reading!

 

[WorryWort]

The efficiency alone may not be important. But I think it is important to know why your efficiency is what it is.

For example, if you are getting 60%, from a recipe perspective you can say you are spending a little more on grain than someone who can get to 80%. Which I agree is a silly point. However, if you are hitting 60% because you are not hitting you mash temp, for example, that will effect not only your grain bill but also the beer as well.

The point still stands that you don't need a great efficiency to make great beer, but that doesn't mean a low efficiency is inherently OK. If you are getting a low efficiency I think you should find out why before determining that it doesn't matter. If it was from wort loss or something innocent (at least as far as taste is concerned) then I think it doesn't matter. But if your thermometer is wrong and you are mashing at 146F instead of 156F, that is something you may or may not be OK with.

this is a good point.

 

[Scut_Monkey]

I'm beginning to think that a thermometer can make or break you and every single one will give you a different reading!

+1 thermometer accuracy is not stressed enough around here. It is stressed stressed quite a bit but they ALL are crappy and give bogus readings. BOOOOOO to thermometers!

 

[Denny]

Temp is a possibility, but I don't think it's a huge one. Just becasue you have a mill doesn't mean that it's set correctly. Try reducing the gap. If you're batch sparging, the runoff speed doesn't matter. If you're fly sparging, it does. Make sure your volume measurements are accurate. There's nothing wrong with a 150 mash temp.

 

[theganda]

I did a 15 quart (3.75 gal) mash and a 4 gallon batch sparge. I stirred the mash, added the sparge water, let it sit for 15 min then drained it. The mash held at 150 the whole hour. My thermometer takes about 30 seconds to give a steady reading, but has usually been pretty accurate. I collected just shy of 6 gallons of wort and boiled it down to 4.5 so I could hit my OG since I got low efficiency. I'm sure it will be fine, just looking to take the guess work out and make a more repeatable process! Thanks for the responses

 

[boredatwork]

An inaccurate thermometer is really not that important.

The only problem is that the solution is iterative. If you have ending up with low efficiencies, one thing to do is assume your thermometer is wrong and start temperature surfing. See how the efficiency changes, but most importantly, see how the beer ends up changing as a result of different mash temps.

In reality if you best mash is at a reading of 180F and mine is at a reading of 140F, who cares if the real temperature of both of our mashes is actual 152.7F? When it comes to thermometers it can be relative.

 

[Denny]

I stirred the mash, added the sparge water, let it sit for 15 min then drained it.

Unlikely trhat it had anyting to do with your problem, but letting the mash sit after adding sparge water is a waste of time. Just stir in sparge water, vorlauf, and runoff....

Something just occurred to me.....did you stir well after adding the sparge water???

 

[JoeMama]

A simple thing that can be done that many people do, is have some DME on hand to up your numbers pre/post boil.
-Me

 

[HenryHill]

Unlikely trhat it had anyting to do with your problem, but letting the mash sit after adding sparge water is a waste of time. Just stir in sparge water, vorlauf, and runoff....

Something just occurred to me.....did you stir well after adding the sparge water???

Dammit, I read thru wanting to state this and I still am.:cross:

You have to drain, add sparge 1, STIR completely to the bottom and mess up the original grain bed set, VORLAUF, then drain and repeat this exactly for the second sparge.

You can have NO DOUGHBALLS from mash-in, and a laboratory rod type of thermometer is accurate and cheap, to verify your mash and HLT temps. I do NOT recommend surfing for a temp reading on your current thermometer that works-trial and error is foolish. Find what temp your thermometer is actually reading at lab rod assured temps, and either adjust it or get a new thermometer-they are way cheaper than sacks of grain over the course of a year.

 

[Denny]

You have to drain, add sparge 1, STIR completely to the bottom and mess up the original grain bed set, VORLAUF, then drain and repeat this exactly for the second sparge.

Or save yourself some time and effort and forget the 2nd sparge....to me, it isn't worth the extra 2% efficiency I may get.

 

[theganda]

This could be a shot in the dark, but i just realized that I've just been dumping in my rice hulls without a good rinse. I guess these can soak up wort? I'll change up my procedure next time and see if it makes a difference.

 

[boredatwork]

I do NOT recommend surfing for a temp reading on your current thermometer that works-trial and error is foolish. Find what temp your thermometer is actually reading at lab rod assured temps, and either adjust it or get a new thermometer-they are way cheaper than sacks of grain over the course of a year.

A few comments about this. In my opinion temp surfing is no different than any other adjustments you do with any of your equipment, whether consciously or unconsciously. Every piece of equipment will add some variability relative to every other setup, thermometer included.

If I knew what "lab rod assured temps" were I might do that, haha. I might guess that you mean test at boiling to make sure its 212? and ice at 0F? But that is also assuming that every other point in between is a linear correction, which is strange considering a bad thermometer is a bad thermometer.

I was also thinking about this over the weekend. Seeing as how important temperature accuracy is, you could also do a quick small mash (no sparge) and test the gravity of first running's at different mash temperatures.

I think this could be a very informative session. Also, the cost of an expensive thermometer could be way more expensive than wasted grain. Do a search on thermometer and you'll see people will spend $100 on a thermometer and its still inaccurate. So I don't think buying a new thermometer is a default good suggestion. To me, dialing in the appropriate mash temp for your equipment (thermometer included) is a reasonable expectation.