"Fungal Malting" barley with Koji and Red Yeast Rice

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Owly055

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There seems to be little if any current interest here in experimenting with "fungal malting". I've been reading about these molds, used in producing saki, red saki, miso, soy sauce, and numerous other products, and feel that they offer some interesting potential for beer brewing. There are some old threads though.

The process is fairly straight forward. The cooked rice is innoculated with fungus, and allowed to propagate over a period of about 48 hours, at which point there is plenty of available amylase available, and the starch is gelatinized. At this point some sort of mashing is necessary to convert the starches to sugars.

In the traditional system, it is then inoculated with yeast, or in the case of rice wine using Chinese Yeast Balls, the yeast is made available at the outset. The fermentation and conversion proceed at the same time.
Alternatively, it could be dehydrated and crushed, or it could be treated like crystal malt, and stewed at conversion temperature, then dried or kilned and crushed. As another alternative, it could be toasted / kilned prior to being steamed and inoculated,

Each process should produce a different flavor profile.

Traditional Saki Koji is composed of the fungus Aspergillus oryzae on a substrate of milled rice.

Red Yeast Rice, which has nothing to do with yeast, is the fungus mold Monascus purpureus on a milled rice substrate, and has a bright red color.

Both are fungi which produce amylase, both are used for versions of saki and rice wine, and both apparently work on starches other than rice, such as barley, and sweet potatoes, both of which interest me in brewing.

As everybody here knows by now, I'm a dyed in the wool experimenter, not to mention an iconoclast, and my views and some of my experiments are often not well received here. Home brewing is an environment made to order for experimentation, and we are well supplied with the tools to do it. One can adhere to tradition and make good beer, or one can brew "outside the box" and make good beer. The array of ingredients available to us is huge. We have people doing traditional brewing right down to decoction mashing, others doing single infusion, others doing BIAB, and variants of it. We have people doing RIMS, and HERMS, recirculating BIAB, Sous Vide mashing, people boiling 30 minutes to 90 minutes, people doing no boil / no chill, people building impressive "brew bling stands" with arrays of vessels, pumps, hoses, and valves. We have people brewing 1 gallon brews, and people brewing 15 barrel brews. We have people doing 20 or 30 minute mashes, and others mashing overnight. And of course there's my continuous brew system often called "solera" (inaccurately), where I remove 33% a week to secondary and replace it with fresh wort.
........... Who have I forgotten?

I've ordered Koji and Red Rice Yeast with intent to experiment with them using various grains and other starch sources. This is both out of sheer curiosity, and because I anticipate spending a number of years voyaging in parts of the world where brewing supplies may not be easily had, expecting to have to use local starches such as sweet potatoes, plantains, taro, etc, along with incorporating local fruits, palm nectar, and who knows what all else........... A brewing adventure. I have a year or so to go before this, and expect to spend from 5-10 years (if not more) traveling the world. This is the time to discover what works and what doesn't.


H.W.
 
I have done the "rice wine" using the Chinese yeast balls and enjoyed the process but didn't enjoy the results.
I suppose this method would work well for raw wheat and/or raw barley and you could still call it beer.
Doing a long mash will sour if you don't steam the grains first to kill off the lactobacillus; I image the process to be similar to steaming rice.
Before hand prepare a rice wine starter; add an amylase rich bowl of rice to a 148F mash and lauter once you reach your desired conversion ratio.
Boil and add hops as usual, lager it and call it Budweiser. Sounds like a fun process but I have my doubts if you will get anything drinkable or anything that could be called beer.
 
I have done the "rice wine" using the Chinese yeast balls and enjoyed the process but didn't enjoy the results.
I suppose this method would work well for raw wheat and/or raw barley and you could still call it beer.
Doing a long mash will sour if you don't steam the grains first to kill off the lactobacillus; I image the process to be similar to steaming rice.
Before hand prepare a rice wine starter; add an amylase rich bowl of rice to a 148F mash and lauter once you reach your desired conversion ratio.
Boil and add hops as usual, lager it and call it Budweiser. Sounds like a fun process but I have my doubts if you will get anything drinkable or anything that could be called beer.

This is a different process than rice wine in that the product does not contain any yeast. The fungus produces amylase only, just as sprouting grain does. The fungal growth process is said to take about 48 hours, during which time the fungus grows to envelop all the grain, which is kept warm and moist (about 90F). With rice wine or saki, the mass of rice and fungus in innoculated with yeast either at the start as with rice wine, or later as with saki..... a fairly involved process.
I have several processes in mind, none of which mirrors either process significantly. I'll probably lightly kiln the barley before steaming it, and as I said, I'll crush it before steaming, to a very course crush. I can see a number of interesting avenues to take.

I've also made rice wine, and was not particularly impressed with the results...


H.W.
 
I've had good success with rice yeast balls using several kinds of rice, and all of them turned out very similar to soju. I also tried pearled barley and oats, and wouldn't reccomend either. I think the high protein level of these grains contributed to the rancid smell and flavor I got.
 
I went on a fungal malting research binge recently, after watching the film "The Birth of Sake", on Netflix.
I learned that almost all of the rice-growing regions have a rice wine drink and they are all a little bit different.
I eventually found a webpage that shows "the secret" of propagating your own Koji.
I was going to order some ingredients and brew up some Sake, and maybe try some of the regional variants but after some thought put the project on the back burner for now.
My main thought was this: If fermented beverages were really all that good, why hasn't the drink caught on with a wider audience?
My second thought is that I live in an apple producing region and local farms grow all kinds of berries and grapes, if I want to make wine, it would be better to learn how to use all local ingredients I can get before trying to import special Sake rice from Japan.
But I'm always up for an experiment, and if you are going on a voyage, having some wines/beers bubbling away will make the trip interesting.
So I say go for it. :mug:
 
I'm moving forward on my countertop convection oven / dryer / kiln. I have the control system modified with an STC 1000 to regulate temp, and switches for the fan and rotisserie, everything but the timer disabled. I need to devise a series parallel switch for the elements, which will halve the output of the elements when in series to achieve a very low uniform heat. I also need to build my screened and solid drums. I'll be using this for regulating temp for sprouting when malting, as well as mold propagation, for drying, and for kilning. I hope to build the screened drum which will go in the rotisserie Saturday. It will consist of two ends, one of which will have a removable center, a solid shaft passing through to hang it in the rotisserie, and 3 threaded rods which will maintain the shape when the center plate is removed to fill or empty the drum of grain. The solid drum will be made from 8" stainless stove pipe & caps, and one end will come completely off. It will be used for "stewing" in making crystal malts, etc.

H.W.
 

Thanks....... An interesting site. It appears that Nuruk is an unrefined fungal amylase produced by growing aspergillus oryzae on rice and then drying it. The process is different in that you do not propagate the mold yourself as you would making saki.

Clearly there are multiple ways to skin a cat so to speak. I found it interesting that they cooked the rice, then dried it, then added water............


H.W.
 
Thanks....... An interesting site. It appears that Nuruk is an unrefined fungal amylase produced by growing aspergillus oryzae on rice and then drying it. The process is different in that you do not propagate the mold yourself as you would making saki.

Clearly there are multiple ways to skin a cat so to speak. I found it interesting that they cooked the rice, then dried it, then added water............


H.W.

I was under the impression that Nuruk was an active culture: http://makgeollilab.com/nuruk/

I'm sure there are other forms.
 
There seems to be little if any current interest here in experimenting with "fungal malting". I've been reading about these molds, used in producing saki, red saki, miso, soy sauce, and numerous other products, and feel that they offer some interesting potential for beer brewing. There are some old threads though.

Did you ever get anywhere with this Owly? I've been planning a sake/beer hybrid for a while now but thinking I might just get started with a sake. It's a helluva lot of work though and slightly against my lazy tendencies!
 
Yeah, I became fascinated by koji but I have to many other projects going on at the moment.
Rich Shih does some crazy things with food and he got in to koji a while back. look at Ourcookquest.com. Here is the index for his blog.

You might want to start by experimenting as a secondary fermentation of a beer that has finished fermenting with yeast. Then you could sample over the days/weeks till you get a flavor you would want to bottle.
 
Thing is the koji spores break down the starches, then if you're making sake, you continuously build up a starter with yeast and koji, throwing in rice and water, manipulating the temperature etc as you go.

I'm interested to see how these principles can be applied to brewing with barley - but I'm not sure pitching into secondary is going to have any bearing. Maybe throwing in say a kg of rice koji might have some interesting effects. The yeast present during fermentation would then ferment the sugars digested by the koji.

Thanks for the link. I've not quite had the stomach (pun intended) to try fermenting meat with koji. I've seen some very interesting results but it seems a bit risky for an amateur! Might have to perfect my temp control and koji incubation first.
 
Did you ever get anywhere with this Owly? I've been planning a sake/beer hybrid for a while now but thinking I might just get started with a sake. It's a helluva lot of work though and slightly against my lazy tendencies!

I brewed with my product, but was not particularly impressed with the results.

H.W.
 
I brewed with my product, but was not particularly impressed with the results.

H.W.

H.W. would you be able to supply any details? How much grain did you use? What % of the batch was the grain? Did you mill the grain before adding the koji? Can you describe the results in a bit more detail? What steps did you go through after fermenting with koji? Straight to boil?
 
H.W. would you be able to supply any details? How much grain did you use? What % of the batch was the grain? Did you mill the grain before adding the koji? Can you describe the results in a bit more detail? What steps did you go through after fermenting with koji? Straight to boil?

What I used was red yeast rice, a form of koji. I soaked the grain first, then innoculated it, and let the koji grow in a temp controlled environment.... I forget the temp at the moment. I didn't take notes. I then kilned it and crushed it along with the other grain. I brewed with about 50/50 koji and two row. The conversion efficiency was sub par for some reason, and I ended up mashing all afternoon....... no problem as I simply insulated the mash well and went off to work. I can't really describe the taste it lent the beer, but it wasn't one I really cared for.
In retrospect, I would probably steam the barley for proper gelatinization first....... I think that this was my main error. I would probably do a saki or rice wine type process, completely separate from anything else. Koji kin contains aspergillus and a yeast that is adapted to work with it. Chinese yeast balls are about the same thing and are intended for making rice wine. It's a really simple process........ Chinese yeast have balls.... who knew?? ;-) The best program is probably to do rice wine first, and get the process down, then introduce some barley with the rice the next time, and go from there. Blending with a normal beer brewed for the purpose would probably the the smartest intermediate stage, and from there work toward a process........... I just kind of lost interest. Too many irons in the fire.

H.W.
 
Thanks for sharing dude. My thoughts were something along your lines of thinking as well. Try a sake wine proper, then next go around, see about incorporating some malt along the way. However, sake is an elaborate process, so whether I'd even get to that second step is a different matter. Going to start playing with koji for miso, cured meats and the like I reckon as soon as I've got it down. I'll report back if the stars do end up aligning...
 
I've been using koji for awhile now. Using the Chinese rice balls, I'm not thrilled with the results. I think the yeast in the rice ball blend is to blame. Further experiments with koji and proper brewers yeast is called for.

The method I've been using is to make a Moto and float that in a batch of beer inside a musin bag. Attenuation has been great with the koji.
 
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