From partial to AG

[jalc6927]

Although this has been covered many times I wanted to share with newbies

I brewed 100's of partial/ extract brews over the years and never had a bad beer, ever. In fact got so good at it it's near impossible for anyone to tell whether or not it was extract/ AG/ or the real thing, ( I do mostly clones). With these Exception of the color to a well seasoned home brewer.

I started AG about 6 brews ago, and have had the hardest time of if it. Had to dump one and others were ok, not great.

That is Until my last brew, Octoberfest, came out so freakin awesome.

My point is it takes a while to understand the entire process, even more so with AG.

So if you're starting this as a hobby, start with extract or partial/extract for the first 15-20 brews so you get the process down pat.

Give yourself time to acquire the correct tools, understand bottling and kegging, cooling methods, fermentation controls, etc

There's no Medal of Honor starting with AG and making crappy beer.

And there's no shame or worrying about being a lesser brewer when using extract or partials.

The goal is to have fun and brew great beer

Start simple and learn the process, then make the leap if you want too

That's my rant for today

 

[ncbrewer]

I agree. Starting with AG can be done, but it makes life a lot more difficult.

 

[GPP33]

Totally disagree. Starting with a simple recipe is a good idea but BAIB or batch sparring is so simple there's no reason to do extract. A beginner doing AG does not equal crappy beer, a bad recipe or big mistake does. If you want to save a little $$ on equipment or have a shorter brew day extract can help but otherwise I'd suggest starting off with all grain, putting grain in warm water isn't really that difficult.

 

[jalc6927]

I wish it was easy as putting grain in warm water?

I don't advocate extract, but partial mash plus extract as the starting point

 

[BugEyedValiant]

Speaking from personal experience, if you don't have a friend or mentor, do a couple extract batches, then AG. I still don't have someone (other than message boards) to turn to, and my first couple extract and AG both had errors that could have easily been avoided with guidance. My whole point is, if you can start this hobby by buying the equipment to do AG, it won't hurt to brew an extract since you already have the necessary equipment.

 

[GPP33]

If you're doing a partial mash how is that fundamentally easier than doing AG? You still need to steep grain, just a little more. The mash is literally the only extra step with AG over extract and it's probably the easiest part of brew day. Scaring people away from AG is doing them a disservice.

 

[BugEyedValiant]

I agree that BIAB or AG isn't that hard, but doing a few extracts won't do anything but prepare a new brewer for better brews a short time later.

 

[Jimbodaman]

Instructions for all grain brewing: Do exactly what you do for a partial mash except don't add extract. Bam! all grain beer. Just because its 3% abv doesn't make it any less all grain.
I say this to hopefully make AG less intimidating. Start small, I love 3% lawnmower beers. Scale up equipment to brew bigger beers/batches.Cheers

 

[Bosh]

Agreed completely, I screwed up my first BIAB AG badly that I can't imagine what sort of horrors would've happened if I'd combined those ****-ups with the newbie ****-ups I engaged in when I first started.

Perfect progression for me would be:
1. LME and hops.
2. LME, steeped grains and hops.
3. BIAB AG.
4. BIAB AG + getting into water chemistry.
5. Experiment with adjuncts.

 

[jalc6927]

Not trying to scare anyone away from anything.

Just trying to impart some guidance to new brewers that starting with an easier process will make them better brewers down the road

If you were to start a workout regiment would you start with the heaviest weights? No, you work up to them

That's my point and I'm sticking to it

 

[balrog]

I have to say the ease of boiling and cooling smaller volumes is worthy of much consideration for new brewers. Sink cooling 2 gallons means not buying and hosing and using immersion chiller or whatever. I have to agree with brewing extract first. My $0.02.

 

[GPP33]

I have to say the ease of boiling and cooling smaller volumes is worthy of much consideration for new brewers. Sink cooling 2 gallons means not buying and hosing and using immersion chiller or whatever. I have to agree with brewing extract first. My $0.02.

I'll agree with starting with smaller batches.

 

[GPP33]

Not trying to scare anyone away from anything.

Just trying to impart some guidance to new brewers that starting with an easier process will make them better brewers down the road

If you were to start a workout regiment would you start with the heaviest weights? No, you work up to them

That's my point and I'm sticking to it

A better analogy would be making mac and cheese from a box or a bag of noodles and a block of cheese. One takes a little more work but if done right will yield a superior product. Like anything in life, if you're going to do it you might as well do it right.

 

[balrog]

Careful with that "better" talk -- it's started holy wars here!

 

[auburntsts]

After of weeks of lurking, researching, reading (web and John Palmer's How to Brew), and watching videos, I'm leaning towards starting AG from the git go, but start very small using a $50 1-gal kit to build experience and to test recipes before investing in larger, significantly more expensive equipment and brewing larger batches.

I suppose a good compromise might be to get a standard 5-gal beginners equipment kit but stick to the 1-gal AG recipes/recipe kits. Thoughts?

 

[jalc6927]

I would get the 5 gallon equipment regardless of the size since you'll more than likely end up doing 5 gallons in the future.

As far as type of brew process, I stand firm on first timers starting with extract/ partial to learn process

 

[balrog]

@auburntsts, I have a friend who started 1G, and successfully used 5G pot and paint strainer bags to do BIAB, makes great beer, and has a blast.

 

[tomoncanterbury]

Quick question and I don't mean to derail the thread too much but can I ferment a 1gal or 3gal batch in my fermenter? I don't have a big enough pot for a full 5 gallon boil and I'm wondering if head space in the fermenter is a bad thing.

As for the topic at hand, I'm brand new at home brewing and started with extract but that's because I have no idea what I'm doing yet and it's been fairly simple to get started this way.

 

[ncbrewer]

Quick question and I don't mean to derail the thread too much but can I ferment a 1gal or 3gal batch in my fermenter? I don't have a big enough pot for a full 5 gallon boil and I'm wondering if head space in the fermenter is a bad thing.

I like a lot of head space because blow-off problems are greatly reduced. IMO about 50% or more liquid fill would be ok. I ferment as little as 4.7 gallons at times in a 7.9 gallon bucket with no problems. But at some point I think the extra head space would be a problem - oxidation or contamination.

 

[CezarJozay]

I've only had my first ever brew in the fermenter for 3 days now so my 2 cents is probably more like $0.002, and even then should be taken with a grain of salt.

I decided that that I wanted an equipment set up that I could grow with. I purchased a kit that came with a big enough pot and fermenter to do 5g batches. The package I bought came with a extract recipe kit for an American Pale Ale. I also purchased a BIAB bag for the future, because I knew eventually I wanted to do BIAB AG brews. So it came to be my first brew day Saturday 9/23 I ended up having to go to my LHBS that morning , I had tested my fermenter and found that the spigot was broken. So I walked in, picked up my spigot and then I heard it, the call of the wild, the need to try AG. I had done so much research and watched so many videos that I felt I could just go for it. I chose a Belgian Blonde AG recipe kit. I got to mill my own grain, although I had to ask for help from the guy behind the counter because I had no idea what to do. So I went home set everything up and decided to go for it. I did a Full volume BIAB mash with a light sparge to get to my target pre-boil volume. I was nervous and kept checking and double checking the steps in my head. All turned out well, in the end I hit my target volume of a little over 5.10 Gallons, missed my target Gravity of 1.066 by 6 points, ended up at 1.060 . All this to say that I’m glad I dove in head first. Was it scary? Hell yeah! Was there a chance I could mess up terribly and have to throw it all away? Of course, but I’m glad I did it. It was overall a fun experience and gave me a sense of accomplishment, not to take away from extract brewing at all. I can compare it to baking a cake out of a box and baking a cake from scratch. The flavors could be spot on but knowing you created those flavors from all the individual ingredients is awesome. It didn’t take all my fears away, I think some fear is healthy, but it made it all seem possible. Next brew day I’ll probably brew the extract kit that I have left over, and that too will be enjoyable. I just know that I can swim in the deep end now.

So all though I agree it would have been easier to start with an extract, I also agree that jumping right in is an amazing feeling of accomplishment.
To my fellow new brewers, start where you feel comfortable, but don’t be scared to dive in.

 

[jalc6927]

That's a great post, Jozay, some times you just have to go with your gut

 

[chickypad]

I wish I had thought about doing smaller batches when I started out. The partial mash for a 5 gal batch is about the same size as a 2-3 gal all grain batch, except you don't have to mess with extract at all so in that sense I find it easier not harder. Personally I don't think extract brews really helped me much and in fact almost turned me off brewing after a couple of brews. I would advise a new brewer interested in all grain to just go ahead and start with 2 gal batches and BIAB.

 

[Leezer]

I started with 1G extract kits and found the combo of small and extract a good starting point for me. I was intimidated by the all-grain process. After a handful of extracts I moved on to 2G BIAB and that's what I have stayed with. I like the taste of my beers much better with BIAB and enjoy the process, not intimidated by it at all anymore. And the smaller volume still works for me but it's nicer to get 20ish bottles rather than only 10. This was my experience anyway.

 

[newbrewer2017]

, missed my target Gravity of 1.066 by 6 points, ended up at 1.060

Heck i missed mine by a lot more than that the first BIAB. But I learned and my second batch is in the fermenter now and I only missed it by 2 points. But its a lot of fun and I learned a bunch on both BIAB batches looking forward to my next one

 

[RM-MN]

I wish it was easy as putting grain in warm water?

I don't advocate extract, but partial mash plus extract as the starting point

But it is just that way. If you put malted barley in water that is warm enough to activate the necessary enzymes the starch that are accessible to the water will convert. The harder part is separating the grains from the wort but that is easy with a fine mesh bag to filter out the grain particles.

The next part is a little harder. You need the grains to be milled to make more of the starch available. If you don't mill the grains you won't get much of the starch to convert. The finer you mill the grain, the faster and more complete the conversion. Mill the grains really fine, put them into water between 148 and 160 and within 20 minutes the starches will all convert to sugar.