Friends want an IPA, I aim to please. Thoughts?

[DSorenson]

I made an "American style" bitter using the stats for the traditional bitter, but all hop additions were 15 minutes or less. It turned out great and generally impressed my craft beer loving, rare beer hunting friends. One of them suggested that I make an IPA, because he seems darn sure I could make a good one.

If you put yourself in my shoes, hopefully you feel that the pressure is on!

IPA is one of my favorite styles, I successfully brewed a decent one as my first homebrew ever. Ever since I found it more thrilling to brew other styles. As a result I brew really nice homebrews, but nothing that stands these guys on their ears compared to what they've had. (Our weekly bottle share regularly features whales and traded beers from all over).

Hope you appreciated the back story... haha

Goal: To only use hops in the last 20 minutes of the boil. The hops will be various favorites of mine that I believe will gel together to make an exciting flavor that almost completely overwhelms the malt. Think hop juice.

I include the recipe along with desired contributions from each part.

TBD IPA

Water:
Distilled, treated with Calcium Chloride Dehydrate (1 tsp per 5 gallons)

Yeast:
Nottinghams @ 62*F (Familiar, ferments to 1.008-1.010, neutral)

Grains:
(Original Gravity 1.062)
90.2% American Pale Malt
6.5% Caramel Malt 40 Lovibond
2.7% Acidulated Malt (pH correction)

Hops:
(64 IBUs)
Magnum (guessing 12% AA) @ 20 min (never used it, hoping for fairly neutral flavor contributions, nothing too resiny)
Palisade 8.6% AA @ 15 min (apricot and that unique palisade flavor)
Amarillo 8.8% AA @ 15 min (awesome grapefruit and citrus. Floral)
Nelson Sauvin 11.8% AA @ 10 min (looking for white grape, not so much bubblegum)
Citra 12.5% AA @ 5 min (general citrus, looking for a little nose)
Sorachi Ace 11.8% AA Dry Hop (looking for adding a significant lemon nose)

Thanks in advance for any and all thoughts on it...
Especially anyone who has ever used magnum hops under 30 mins.

 

[The542]

I would compliment the Sorachi ace dry hop with Amarillo and Citra. If you want the SA to shine, just use more than the other two. If you want a really wet juicy hop flavor and aroma, dry hop it twice with all three.

 

[Yooper]

Instead of the calcium chloride, use gypsum. Are you using a spreadsheet to predict pH? If so, go ahead and play with it and use gypsum to bring up the calcium a bit (40-50ppm or higher) and the sulfate to 150 ppm. That's probably around 8 grams, give or take, or 1.5 teaspoons but go ahead and put it in EZ water or bru'nwater to make sure.

You shouldn't need so much acid malt to get a pH of 5.4ish with distilled water and the gypsum, but it's ok if you do.

I'd probably change up the hopping, skipping the magnum and consider using only three varieties of hops as to not muddy the flavors. Palisades, amarillo, and citra is a great combo, but there are others that are equally great.

While you want certain characteristics from each hop variety, and that is why you're using it, you probably will not be able to detect those characteristics and instead get a muddied effect from so many different varieties late in the boil.

 

[redman67]

I regularly adjust my sulfate to well over 300 on hoppy beers makes all the difference in the world IMHO

 

[DSorenson]

Instead of the calcium chloride, use gypsum. Are you using a spreadsheet to predict pH? If so, go ahead and play with it and use gypsum to bring up the calcium a bit (40-50ppm or higher) and the sulfate to 150 ppm. That's probably around 8 grams, give or take, or 1.5 teaspoons but go ahead and put it in EZ water or bru'nwater to make sure.

You shouldn't need so much acid malt to get a pH of 5.4ish with distilled water and the gypsum, but it's ok if you do.

I am not using a calculator or anything for this, I am merely going with AJDelange's Water Primer sticky. This is my first attempt at messing with water chemistry. Since I am on softened well water, I figured it couldn't hurt to try it. I honestly do not know very much about water chemistry, but I have started (note: started) to read the book on brewing water by palmer.

I see what you mean about not using all the hop varieties, and I will take that strongly into consideration as I plan!

 

[Yooper]

I am not using a calculator or anything for this, I am merely going with AJDelange's Water Primer sticky. This is my first attempt at messing with water chemistry. Since I am on softened well water, I figured it couldn't hurt to try it. I honestly do not know very much about water chemistry, but I have started (note: started) to read the book on brewing water by palmer.

I see what you mean about not using all the hop varieties, and I will take that strongly into consideration as I plan!

AJ's water primer is specifically for RO or distilled water. You probably have a lot of sodium in a softened water, so you probably don't want to mess with water chemistry/additions without knowing what's in there. Adding salts without knowing the make up of the water usually results in poor results, and I"d be very hesitant to add anything without knowing where you're starting water wise. Of course, if the last beer came out well that's a good sign!

In your recipe, you said distilled water and if it is indeed distilled, using the gyspum instead of the calcium chloride is a good bet.

 

[DSorenson]

In your recipe, you said distilled water and if it is indeed distilled, using the gyspum instead of the calcium chloride is a good bet.

Ah, yes. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but I am abandoning my home water source for distilled water and treating it. The beer that I've made from my house water turned out fine but this is a stab to see if I can't improve my results.

I would normally go with your sage and helpful advise, but I am on edge about using gypsum instead of the calcium chloride. I'm not really a kind of person to go "off book" when I don't really know what I am doing... not that I consider AJ's water primer "the book", exactly.

I am also interested in the sulfites- I suppose I could find those at the LHBS?

 

[Yooper]

Ah, yes. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but I am abandoning my home water source for distilled water and treating it. The beer that I've made from my house water turned out fine but this is a stab to see if I can't improve my results.

I would normally go with your sage and helpful advise, but I am on edge about using gypsum instead of the calcium chloride. I'm not really a kind of person to go "off book" when I don't really know what I am doing... not that I consider AJ's water primer "the book", exactly.

I am also interested in the sulfites- I suppose I could find those at the LHBS?

You don't need sulfites with DI/deionized water. You could get them there, but you don't need them.

You don't trust me to argue with AJ over IPAs? I normally would go with AJ, too, but in the case of IPAs, trust me- or better yet, trust Martin Brungard. He'd tell you to go even heavier with the gypsum.

Seriously- AJ's primer rocks. But it's a primer for basic beer formula. This is an IPA. You need sulfate, not cacl2. You may not need acidulated malt.

Try using brewer's friend water calculator, as it's the easiest. Or, if you really want some water knowledge, bru'nwater by Martin Brungard (mabrungard on this forum). Using distilled water is perfect, but you now need some gypsum to make it finished. If you don't believe me, read mabrungard's water info on brunwater. I go with far less sulfate than he does in most IPAs, a much more modest amount except for in a few recipes. You do want 125-150 ppm sulfate, via gypsum. That will be all you need, and you may not need the acid malt at all, or at least very little of it.

 

[budaboff]

You don't need sulfites with DI/deionized water. You could get them there, but you don't need them.

You don't trust me to argue with AJ over IPAs? I normally would go with AJ, too, but in the case of IPAs, trust me- or better yet, trust Martin Brungard. He'd tell you to go even heavier with the gypsum.

Seriously- AJ's primer rocks. But it's a primer for basic beer formula. This is an IPA. You need sulfate, not cacl2. You may not need acidulated malt.

Try using brewer's friend water calculator, as it's the easiest. Or, if you really want some water knowledge, bru'nwater by Martin Brungard (mabrungard on this forum). Using distilled water is perfect, but you now need some gypsum to make it finished. If you don't believe me, read mabrungard's water info on brunwater. I go with far less sulfate than he does in most IPAs, a much more modest amount except for in a few recipes. You do want 125-150 ppm sulfate, via gypsum. That will be all you need, and you may not need the acid malt at all, or at least very little of it.

Which BrewersFriend water profile do you use for IPAs?

 

[DSorenson]

I can't thank you enough, Yooper!

 

[estricklin]

Looks like a good recipe, I always try to add a pound or 2 of Munich, Vienna something of the sort instead of using all plain 2 row. Seems to give it a little more backbone.

I have not used Magnum inside 30 mins, so I can't help you there. Simcoe and Warrior have been personal favorite choices for 30 minute bittering editions for me. I LOVE Nelson Suavin by the way!

 

[MindenMan]

If I have a question I can't seem to answer myself, I ask Yooper, BigFloyd, or some of the other gurus here. But I will say this, if Yooper takes the time to offer me advice on what to do, that is what I do. Period. I'm not trying to be a d!ck, I am just saying, from the help of Yooper, BigFloyd, and so many others, I went from making marginal quality beer, to now not only make beer I am proud of, but actually winning Best of Category in the last contest I entered. Okay, I may be old school at 54, but If I ask someone for their advice, I take it.

 

[Yooper]

Which BrewersFriend water profile do you use for IPAs?

I don't really go with a 'profile', but I tend to go with a light colored bitter glance, to ensure a good mash pH and minimal additions, and then increase the sulfate to 150 for many of them, but I have one recipe that is great at 225 ppm of sulfate.

Mash pH is crucial- the amounts of individual ions is not.

 

[DSorenson]

If I have a question I can't seem to answer myself, I ask Yooper, BigFloyd, or some of the other gurus here. But I will say this, if Yooper takes the time to offer me advice on what to do, that is what I do. Period. I'm not trying to be a d!ck, I am just saying, from the help of Yooper, BigFloyd, and so many others, I went from making marginal quality beer, to now not only make beer I am proud of, but actually winning Best of Category in the last contest I entered. Okay, I may be old school at 54, but If I ask someone for their advice, I take it.

This post is rather inflammatory. If you feel the need to say "I am not trying to be a d!ck", you might want to reword what you have written. I would have suggested "Yooper has given you some good advise!" or "I second Yooper's idea".

I have all the respect in the world for Yooper, BigFloyd, PassedPawn, etc. I was not arguing with Yooper: I was taking AJDelange's water primer into consideration because (from what I understand) AJ is somewhat of a water expert. Yooper herself knows what I was referring to.

I hope you read the post where I kindly thanked Yooper for her time because she taught me something new and I am going to use her advice- both with the hops and water chemistry. The sheer fact that I confused sulfates and sulfites should reveal just where I stand on the subject of water chemistry.

So in closing, I hope Yooper understands I was merely confused and that I appreciate her knowledge.