Fly Sparge vs Batch Sparge

[bearfootbrewer]

I currently batch sparge and now have the set up to Fly sparge. What is your take in Fly sparge vs Batch sparge? Give me the good and bad.

 

[d3track]

Whichever works for you. "Typically" batch sparging takes less time but requires lifting hot water unless you have a pump.

 

[stpug]

They're both effective; they both work; they both produce beer; they both involve their own intricacies and technique.
They just work!

You'll have to determine the good/bad for yourself because they'll be different for everyone.

 

[RmikeVT]

I think this is personal preference. I batch sparge because its quicker and leaves less room to make a mistake. It also requires less equipment.

 

[RmikeVT]

Whichever works for you. "Typically" batch sparging takes less time but requires lifting hot water unless you have a pump.

How does batch sparging require lifting hot water, while fly sparging does not? Are you assuming those who batch sparge don't have pumps or don't elevate their hot liquor tank? Just curious.

 

[DurtyChemist]

How does batch sparging require lifting hot water, while fly sparging does not? Are you assuming those who batch sparge don't have pumps or don't elevate their hot liquor tank? Just curious.

Probably. If you have your hot liquor above your kettle why batch sparge? Then again I know a guy in my brew club who has a three tier and he batch sparges so I'm wrong for thinking that way too. Hahaha

 

[Rivenin]

just depends what works better on your system
i did batch sparging for many years... Than something switched and i wanted to start fly sparging. worked wonderfully and i just enjoy it more... also my eff jumped.
Not to say yours will. some people get better numbers batch sparging than i do fly sparging becuase of how they brew and their setup and such.
Just depends on what you like better.
Batch sparging is usually quicker though

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Obviously fly Sparging is better. It takes forever and can be a pita. That is how you know.

 

[LandoLincoln]

I currently batch sparge and now have the set up to Fly sparge. What is your take in Fly sparge vs Batch sparge? Give me the good and bad.

Fly sparging takes longer, can require some extra equipment and can theoretically leach tannins into your beer. But it can also give you a better efficiency than batch sparging.

 

[cantrell00]

I can't attribute my efficiency gains to only fly sparging because I added a HERMS system at the same time but I saw a 10% + jump in mash efficiency..

It takes longer, true.

If you are the type that wants to compress the total time to brew, batch sparging is the way to go...

If you are like me and enjoy the brewing as much as the drinking, you may as well save some money while doing it..

 

[AnOldUR]

Professional brewers continuous sparge because they have to. Batch sparging on a large scale is not practical. Homebrewers continuous sparge because they can, but it might not be the most practical option for their batch size. It’s like BIAB is a great option for small batches, but some people think it’s a fine way to brew 10 gallons. With a proportional amount of effort, you can make any of the three all grain methods work for any batch size. It depends on where you want to draw the line. To each his own.

 

[LandoLincoln]

I switched over to a HERMS setup and tried to continue batch sparging with it. It just wasn't a good fit with the constantly recirculating system. So I switched over to fly sparging and the system now works wonderfully. I get crystal clear wort going into the boil kettle.

 

[cantrell00]

I switched over to a HERMS setup and tried to continue batch sparging with it. It just wasn't a good fit with the constantly recirculating system. So I switched over to fly sparging and the system now works wonderfully. I get crystal clear wort going into the boil kettle.

I had the same thoughts as well....

Much easier to just bump the PID control to a mash out temp of 168 and never disrupt the grain bed.

Let it flow until you are at your boil volume..

 

[AnOldUR]

I get crystal clear wort going into the boil kettle.

Batch sparging with a HERMS would be adding the sparge water, stirring to suspend the sugars and then recirculate until the wort runs clear before diverting the flow to your kettle. I don't see how wort clarity could a problem.

 

[cantrell00]

Batch sparging with a HERMS would be adding the sparge water, stirring to suspend the sugars and then recirculate until the wort runs clear before diverting the flow to your kettle. I don't see how wort clarity could a problem.

All certainly true except it requires resetting the grain bed for each batch that you sparge...

May as well just fly sparge as there will be very little time savings..

My HERMS has to recirculate for a while to reach that degree of clarity...

 

[AnOldUR]

My HERMS has to recirculate for a while to reach that degree of clarity...

I guess it's system dependent. The max I have to recirculate before the wort clears is five minutes, then it's drain as fast as I can without compacting the bed.

Basically a "rich man’s" vorlauf.



Edit to put rich man in quotes as a figure of speech. My $25 pump doesn't make me a rich man.

 

[d3track]

How does batch sparging require lifting hot water, while fly sparging does not? Are you assuming those who batch sparge don't have pumps or don't elevate their hot liquor tank? Just curious.

Everyone that I have seen (including myself) lift a kettle and dump into the MLT. No dumping from fly sparging.

Is it the only way? No, but seems to be a common practice.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Batch sparging with a HERMS would be adding the sparge water, stirring to suspend the sugars and then recirculate until the wort runs clear before diverting the flow to your kettle. I don't see how wort clarity could a problem.

You don't see how semi-cloudy wort could be a problem? Or you don't see how batch sparging with a HERMS setup could get you less clear wort than fly sparging with a HERMS setup?

When I HERMS fly sparge, I don't disturb the grain bed at all throughout the entire mashing/sparging process (after dough-in), so that wort comes out crystal clear. No need to vorlauf, since it's been vorlaufing for an hour or so.

When I HERMS batch sparged, I had to dump the first runnings into the BK (which came out crystal clear), and then had to add sparge water to the MLT, then stirred, then vorlaufed, then began to run the second runnings into the BK. While the wort was clear of chunks of grain, it wasn't crystal clear like the first runnings were. I suppose I could have continued to recirculate the batch sparge until it became clear like the first runnings, but that probably would have taken at least 20 minutes or so, and that would have defeated the goal of saving time with batch sparging.

 

[AnOldUR]

You don't see how semi-cloudy wort could be a problem?

No. As long as there's to husk material you won't get tannins. Semi-cloudy is a non issue. It will drop out with the break and not go to your fermenter. And even if you didn't allow it to drop there, it would in the fermenter and have no impact in the clarity or taste of the finished beer.

That said, my wort is pretty clear after a few minutes of recirculating.

 

[blizz81]

When I HERMS batch sparged, I had to dump the first runnings into the BK (which came out crystal clear), and then had to add sparge water to the MLT, then stirred, then vorlaufed, then began to run the second runnings into the BK. While the wort was clear of chunks of grain, it wasn't crystal clear like the first runnings were. I suppose I could have continued to recirculate the batch sparge until it became clear like the first runnings, but that probably would have taken at least 20 minutes or so, and that would have defeated the goal of saving time with batch sparging.

For me on the RIMS side, in my head it's still just easier to dump a determined amount of sparge water in, stir things up, let the bed set for a couple minutes, flick a pump switch, crack a valve, flick a heater switch, and then proceed to drink homebrew for 10-15 minutes (which seems to clear things up well).

I could definitely be wrong (it could be easy in practice to switch hoses to a HLT and match the drain valve to the pump valve), and one method may or may not take more time in the end, but 80% brewhouse efficiency, clear wort, and inertia are fighting any such changes to process.

 

[Yooper]

Batch sparging with a HERMS would be adding the sparge water, stirring to suspend the sugars and then recirculate until the wort runs clear before diverting the flow to your kettle. I don't see how wort clarity could a problem.

I generally batch sparge even though my set up is perfect for continuous (fly) sparging.

I have a HERMS, and my wort is crystal clear whether I batch sparge or continuous sparge.

I have been getting about 3% lower efficiency since doing one round of batch sparging vs continous sparging over an hour.

It is so much faster for me, and the wort comes to a boil faster since I turn the boil kettle on full blast as soon as I have 3+ gallons of wort in it (to cover the electric element).

I'll probably still go back and forth as the mood strikes, but I don't see any disadvantages in wort quality, clarity, or end result when I batch sparge.

 

[Yooper]

All certainly true except it requires resetting the grain bed for each batch that you sparge...

May as well just fly sparge as there will be very little time savings..

My HERMS has to recirculate for a while to reach that degree of clarity...

"Resetting" the grain bed after a thorough stirring is as easy as letting the pump run for 30 seconds, before diverting the wort into the BK. It's not a disadvantage at all.

 

[LandoLincoln]

No. As long as there's to husk material you won't get tannins. Semi-cloudy is a non issue. It will drop out with the break and not go to your fermenter. And even if you didn't allow it to drop there, it would in the fermenter and have no impact in the clarity or taste of the finished beer.

That said, my wort is pretty clear after a few minutes of recirculating.

I'm sure you're right, but I just like to see a big ol' pot of crystal clear wort waiting at the end of the mash. It pleases me.

And then I destroy it all by dumping in the hops and everything goes cloudy. DAMN YOU, HOPS!

 

[cantrell00]

"Resetting" the grain bed after a thorough stirring is as easy as letting the pump run for 30 seconds, before diverting the wort into the BK. It's not a disadvantage at all.

Good points... I have only done 3-4 batches on my HERMS so I am probably "babying" things more than I have too ...

I really do like just swapping the placement of two hoses & adjusting two valves though...

Baby steps...

 

[Yooper]

Good points... I have only done 3-4 batches on my HERMS so I am probably "babying" things more than I have too ...

I really do like just swapping the placement of two hoses & adjusting two valves though...

Baby steps...

Yes, but that's all I do as well- swap ONE hose, actually!

I send the sparge water through the HERMS coil after the mash, so clean it out, and I just keep it there during the sparge whether I"m fly or batch sparging. I still move the same hose to the BK and that is the one that I move from recirculating to going to the BK. I don't have to adjust any valves, because both the sparge water and the wort to the BK go full bore at that point.

 

[cantrell00]

I guess it's system dependent. The max I have to recirculate before the wort clears is five minutes, then it's drain as fast as I can without compacting the bed.

Basically a "rich man’s" vorlauf.



Edit to put rich man in quotes as a figure of speech. My $25 pump doesn't make me a rich man.

I hear you. My bet is that system specific variables are the rule here more than the exception..

HERMS flow rates along with the type of MLT & false bottom are certainly at play. Grain crush too for that matter..

 

[cantrell00]

Yes, but that's all I do as well- swap ONE hose, actually!

I send the sparge water through the HERMS coil after the mash, so clean it out, and I just keep it there during the sparge whether I"m fly or batch sparging. I still move the same hose to the BK and that is the one that I move from recirculating to going to the BK. I don't have to adjust any valves, because both the sparge water and the wort to the BK go full bore at that point.

I follow... I'm using a single pump so I am moving the HLT drain to the MLT sparge inlet. The HLT drain is typically used to feed a 12 volt solar to recirculate the HLT water while the HERMS is active. Has GREATLY helped with ramping.

I then switch the return line from the HERMS inlet to the BK. Gravity from HLT to MLT. Pump to the kettle/HERMS... All electric..

There must be 100's of ways to skin a cat. Amazing how diverse homebrewers setup's can be.

 

[AnOldUR]

There must be 100's of ways to skin a cat. Amazing how diverse homebrewers setup's can be.

Your system sounds very similar to mine. Difference being I use a stir motor to keep a uniform temperature in my HLT, but gravity feed to my MLT. Like you I recirculate the mash with a single US Solar pump an then switch the pump out line over to the kettle when the mash is over.

I use a CPC disconnect and an in-line Loc-Line shut-off. This allows me to not shut off the pump. I turn off the Loc-Line valve, switch the disconnect to the kettle and open it back up. I think that there's less chance of impacting the grain bed this way (but I could be wrong ).

 

[cantrell00]

Your system sounds very similar to mine. Difference being I use a stir motor to keep a uniform temperature in my HLT, but gravity feed to my MLT. Like you I recirculate the mash with a single US Solar pump an then switch the pump out line over to the kettle when the mash is over.

I use a CPC disconnect and an in-line Loc-Line shut-off. This allows me to not shut off the pump. I turn off the Loc-Line valve, switch the disconnect to the kettle and open it back up. I think that there's less chance of impacting the grain bed this way (but I could be wrong ).

Yup...

 

[AnOldUR]

Wait. That's nothing like mine. Way more shiny, bling!

Is that a grant?

 

[cantrell00]

Yeah. DIY.

Stainless fire hydrant cut in half with a 1/2" coupling soldered into it.

Thinking about converting into a hop back.

 

[day_trippr]

"crystal clear" has lost all meaning if it's being applied to fresh wort...

Cheers!

 

[Yooper]

"crystal clear" has lost all meaning if it's being applied to fresh wort...

Cheers!

What do you mean?

 

[bragona71]

"crystal clear" has lost all meaning if it's being applied to fresh wort...

Cheers!

Im crystal clear this has been over thought!!! bottom line is.. choose the way you LIKE to do it and that's the way you should do it. I fly sparge cuz that's the way I first started. no other reason. If I changed to batch tomorrow its because I wanted to. find your sweet spot and go with it.you can rack your brain over pros and cons and we can all argue witch way is better but I guarantee we are all drinking pretty good beer which ever way we sparge..cheers