Fly Sparge Idea

[AdamCanFly]

I've come up with an idea for fly sparging and I would like some input before I actually try it. I got the idea from my background in the aquarium hobby. I have a 10 gallon rubbermaid mash tun and I have been batch sparging until now.

Heres what I've come up with. Water going in goes straight to the bottom then flows up through the grain, overflows into a stand pipe, then goes down and out through the valve at the bottom. The idea is that the water going in and out would be the same.

I've thought of a few problems with the idea, but I can probably come up with ways to overcome them. First problem is that the grain will be more fluid and it will be hard to block it out of the stand pipe. Maybe a screen will solve that. Second problem is that the grain bed and water level will be different with every beer so the stand pipe will have to be adjustable.

Right now it's just an idea that popped in my head after a few home brews. I would really like to hear some of your thoughts and ideas about this.

Heres a crude sketch.

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

With a typical sparge setup the grain bed acts as the filter, allowing clear wort to flow out the outlet at the bottom. With this setup I'd think that grain bed will be unable to act as a filter and I think you will have clarity problems. Plus you will need a way to filter the grain out of the outlet pipe, you dont want husk in your boil.

 

[AdamCanFly]

I did say that that might be an issue to overcome. I was thinking maybe a screen over the stand pipe, or maybe a slow enough flow that the grain stays down and the water/wort rises over the pipe.

 

[BigEd]

Two questions: Why are you trying to overcome gravity when it's already there, it's free and it works? As the sugar dissolves in the mash water that liquid becomes heavier and sinks to the bottom so why expend extra energy to push it back up?

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Put the "standpipe" outside the kettle, and you're onto something. See this video:



While hot side aeration isn't a huge concern in homebrewing, it might be worth lengthening the output tube to avoid such a long drop into the boil kettle.

 

[jet35a]

I believe the logic in fly sparging is that the less dense sparge water added to the top of the mash tun forces the more dense wort thru your filter media. What would be the point in introducing the sparge water to the bottom of the tun? I would think channeling would be a major problem.

I'm certainly no expert. I batch sparge. I did try Biermuncher's "hybrid fly sparge" method once. The dividing line between the clear sparge water and the wort was well defined.

 

[Bobby_M]

I like new ideas but usually when you propose to modify a highly embedded process or design, you have to explain the typical problem that you're trying to work around. The traditional fly sparge works really well already.

If there were one aspect that your design seems to enhance it would be keeping the grainbed as fluid is possible, but it would likely be to a fault. You need to set at least the lower portion of the bed to act as a filter.

I agree with the posters above. One of the reasons fly sparging works is that denser wort wants to move downward. Even with the bottom up design, you'd want to feed the bed as evenly as possible to avoid channeling so that would require a false bottom anyway.

 

[Starderup]

With a typical sparge setup the grain bed acts as the filter, allowing clear wort to flow out the outlet at the bottom. With this setup I'd think that grain bed will be unable to act as a filter and I think you will have clarity problems. Plus you will need a way to filter the grain out of the outlet pipe, you dont want husk in your boil.

This is a solution in search of a problem. The way fly sparging works now is a better way to do it than this upside down method.

 

[JVD_X]

Sweet wort is heavier than water... it naturally wants to sit lower than the sparge water. So, you would probably be diluting the wort.

 

[o2nut]

The only benefit I can see is that once the stand pipe is at the right height you would only need to control the water going in to the MLT. The drain off to the BK would regulate itself and could be gravity fed. So maybe a single tier 1 pump design. I still don't the positive notes are enough to warrant all the down sides. But it would be interesting to see what efficiencies could be had with this set up and if the negatives are really that bad.

 

[BierMuncher]

Seems to me you’re trying to move a pile of sand with a pitchfork when you have a perfectly good shovel at your disposal.

Sparging with gravity is natural and uses sedimentation to “cleanse” the grains of the sugars. Pumping water from the bottom up will only go against the natural flow of the wort and cause a lot of inefficient churning and murky wort.

 

[kanzimonson]

Also, what do you do when you get to the end of the sparge and the liquid level isn't high enough to fall into the "overflow tube"? You would always be planning your sparges with several gallons of leftovers in the lauter tun.