Flowery boozy honeylike off-flavor.

[Jesse93]

Hi all,

I've had atleast 3 brews that has a very odd off-flavour. It is quite hard to describe it, and doesn't seem to fade off with time. It gives the beer a very flower-like aroma, it has a sweet alcoholic scent that itches a little bit in the nose. The taste somehow reminds of honey. It is really odd. Some background to this:

• No sings of infection (wild yeast or bacteria).
• Happens on different yeast strains (nottingham, WLP029 and US-05)
• Happens on different fermentation temperatures. Generally all beers were fermented between 16-24 celcius.
• Has only occoured in light colored beer styles.
• Happens of freshly carbonated bottles as well as bottles aged for over a month
• Different amounts of aeration of the wort has been tested. No differences in the taste.
• Different pitching rates of yeast has been used. Still produces the same flavour...
• Different sanitizers has been used. Beer still has the same flavour.
• Diacetly rest doesn't affect the flowery taste.
• Different mashing times and boiling times does not seem to affect how this flavour is precieved.

I really don't want to have flowery boozy beer. This even overpowers the dry hopping. Any ideas how to solve this? I'm thinking that things that can affect the taste is probably the water I use. It is very very close to Vienna water profile (just a tad of gypsum in the difference).

 

[MaryB]

What is your FG coming in at? Sweet could be not fermenting out all the way...

 

[GrainToGlass]

Have you had your water tested? Try using entirely RO water and build with salts to see if the off-flavor persists. Maybe too much caramel malts, high attenuation, and certain hops are giving you a sweet, boozy, floral beer.

 

[IchLiebeBier]

What are you fermenting in? Glass or plastic? If plastic, you could be picking up something hidden in scratches in the side.

 

[Jesse93]

What is your FG coming in at? Sweet could be not fermenting out all the way...

The beers I make are generally dry, with an FG of 1.010 to 1.012. Not sure if this is common with 20L caramel malts (roughly 5% of the grist).

 

[Jesse93]

Have you had your water tested? Try using entirely RO water and build with salts to see if the off-flavor persists. Maybe too much caramel malts, high attenuation, and certain hops are giving you a sweet, boozy, floral beer.

Yes it is tested. Nothing weird with it, very close to Vienna's water profile. Although I usually make lighter beers than Vienna Lagers. I do have a very high attenuation with the mentioned yeasts. The hops that I've used in these beers are Southern Cross (in 2/3) and Sladek (in 1/3), where the beer that is using Sladek hops do have this weird flavour around twice as much as in the Southern Cross ones. It could very well be a hop related issue.

 

[Jesse93]

What are you fermenting in? Glass or plastic? If plastic, you could be picking up something hidden in scratches in the side.

Platic. I have an altbier fermenting in one of them now. If it picks up this aroma, I will throw the fermentor in the garbage and buy a glass one instead.

 

[Jesse93]

Thanks for input all!

I will try to change hops (already have a batch with only Tettnanger fermenting, yummy!). Next time I won't do any water adjustments. Also if the aroma persists in my altbier that I am fermenting at the moment I will change the fermentor!

Cheers!

/Jesse

 

[FatDragon]

Where do you get your ingredients? Is it possible that you're getting these flavors from your base malt or another grain that has gone into all of these beers and the flavor is just being hidden behind other stronger flavors in your darker beers?

 

[Jesse93]

Where do you get your ingredients? Is it possible that you're getting these flavors from your base malt or another grain that has gone into all of these beers and the flavor is just being hidden behind other stronger flavors in your darker beers?

I live in Sweden and in my region there is only one LHBS, and it is way to far away, so I order my ingredients online from a homebrew supplier (almost like northern brewer). I've used Viking Malts Pilsner Malt from Finland as a base malt for these beers (all except for two brews that I used pale malt in, which didn't have these flavours on a second thought).

The grits has been different in the beers. The one with most weird taste also used munich 10L (viking), caravienne (briess) and melanoidin malt (viking). The one that had the 2nd most one used 70% Pilsner Malt, 25% Munich 10L and 5% Caravienne. The one that had the least taste of it had 95% Pilsner and 5% caravienne, but the same hops as the one with 2nd most.

I bought that base malt because it is the cheapest one, and gives enough enzymatic activity and let the hops shine through. I don't know what the over all quality of finnish malts are, but the Swedish ones are really good...

The hops are from 2013 and 2014 havrest in these beers. I've kept them vacum sealed in the freezer.

 

[drhusker18]

While I dint have weird beer flavors - here is something similar I noticed.

I have just started brewing and using ale pale buckets. I did a Bavarian hefe kit and used the liquid 3068. Then I had another brew (rasp requiem) recipe located in top 50 here on hbt- used Nottingham.

The hefe did not go into secondary but the raspberry did secondary in the berries. When I had the empty primary buckets rinsed with just water (before oxy clean), after yeast harvest, both had a huge dried flower or fake flower smell(like grandmas house) it was kinda nice but weird. It almost did have a 'honey' smell- like a honey from citrus or lavender fields. After cleaning with detergent it went away a little but it is still there. Definately not a smell you forget, it is pleasant but weird. Beer hasn't picked up that flavor or aroma. Could also be from hop resin/oils? Isn't concern to me. I am sure glass is better but I'm not going that route.

Maybe baking soda then vinegar could take it away from fermenter in plastic. Just mindful the soda could scratch.

 

[MaryB]

when my fermenting buckets pick up to much hop funk I fill with 140 degree water and PBW(TBL per gallon) and let it soak overnight. Gets rid of most of the smell.

 

[Jesse93]

While I dint have weird beer flavors - here is something similar I noticed.

I have just started brewing and using ale pale buckets. I did a Bavarian hefe kit and used the liquid 3068. Then I had another brew (rasp requiem) recipe located in top 50 here on hbt- used Nottingham.

The hefe did not go into secondary but the raspberry did secondary in the berries. When I had the empty primary buckets rinsed with just water (before oxy clean), after yeast harvest, both had a huge dried flower or fake flower smell(like grandmas house) it was kinda nice but weird. It almost did have a 'honey' smell- like a honey from citrus or lavender fields. After cleaning with detergent it went away a little but it is still there. Definately not a smell you forget, it is pleasant but weird. Beer hasn't picked up that flavor or aroma. Could also be from hop resin/oils? Isn't concern to me. I am sure glass is better but I'm not going that route.

Maybe baking soda then vinegar could take it away from fermenter in plastic. Just mindful the soda could scratch.

Your description is spot-on. Lavendel like honey and grandmas fake flowery smell. The aroma would be pleasant in something else than my standard Pale Ale. It would probably work on a estery weissbier with saphir hops...
I'll try vinegar and baking soda to see if it disappears!

 

[Jesse93]

when my fermenting buckets pick up to much hop funk I fill with 140 degree water and PBW(TBL per gallon) and let it soak overnight. Gets rid of most of the smell.

Yeah it could very well be traces of that damn Sladek hop that I dry hopped with... I ****** hate that hop haha If my altbier picks it up, then the fermentor is obviously the problem. Cheers

 

[Jesse93]

Little update: I didn't find any traces of this weird aroma in my altbier, yay! Although, while fermenting I could smell a ****load of Cascades through the airlock, but nothing in the finnished beer. I guess hop aromas are so strong that they can stay in the plastic for quite a while.

 

[Northbank]

I was thinking about switching to plastic instead of glass to cut back on weight and I think this is a pretty good argument against doing so ...

 

[tracyk]

My typically routine for cleaning, especially after IPA or sometimes Pale Ales is baking soda with warm water in my primary fermentor, let soak overnite, discard water then refill with PBW for a few hours unless there is alot of residue, then once again soak overnite, then sanitize with StarSan. This will normally get rid of the hop funk smell in the fermentor.

 

[Jesse93]

I was thinking about switching to plastic instead of glass to cut back on weight and I think this is a pretty good argument against doing so ...

I'm thinking about switching to glass instead of plastic actually
Plastic needs extreme cleaning. The sladek-wierd aroma consisted for 3 batches... After all, brewing is 90% about cleaning...

 

[Jesse93]

My typically routine for cleaning, especially after IPA or sometimes Pale Ales is baking soda with warm water in my primary fermentor, let soak overnite, discard water then refill with PBW for a few hours unless there is alot of residue, then once again soak overnite, then sanitize with StarSan. This will normally get rid of the hop funk smell in the fermentor.

I'll order some PBW for sure...

 

[Northbank]

I'm thinking about switching to glass instead of plastic actually
Plastic needs extreme cleaning. The sladek-wierd aroma consisted for 3 batches... After all, brewing is 90% about cleaning...

Lugging a five gallon jug around isn't the most fun thing I have had ... but at least I know if I clean it quickly and well after usage it basically inherits no smells, flavors or anything ....

I actually put my carboy in my brew pot after it has been cleaned and then fill it with beer so I can use the pod handles to move it around. Works really quite well. Sure is heavy lowering into my chest freezer though.

 

[Jesse93]

Lugging a five gallon jug around isn't the most fun thing I have had ... but at least I know if I clean it quickly and well after usage it basically inherits no smells, flavors or anything ....

I actually put my carboy in my brew pot after it has been cleaned and then fill it with bear so I can use the pod handles to move it around. Works really quite well. Sure is heavy lowering into my chest freezer though.

Sounds heavy, I've never brewed more than 3 gallons. It is a bit easier to handle. I need to buy a wort chiller if I am going to brew bigger batches I currently use an ice bath to chill the hot wort. I think two extra gallons would require a better method.

 

[Northbank]

Sounds heavy, I've never brewed more than 3 gallons. It is a bit easier to handle. I need to buy a wort chiller if I am going to brew bigger batches I currently use an ice bath to chill the hot wort. I think two extra gallons would require a better method.

I absolutely agree -- cooling mine has been a pain in the ass without a chiller ... I've also been considering 3 gallon batches. I'm not actually a bit drinker but I like the process of making my own ...

 

[MaryB]

I started making my own again, friends tasted it, now they want me to brew for them... told them to buy the stuff, plan on spending 6 hours helping split between 2 days(4 1/2 or so brew day, 1 1/2 bottling day), and supply their own bottles so I don't have to wash them!

 

[Jesse93]

I tried my altbier the other day after some conditioning. It tasted like a dark macro lager, which is good as there is no traces of any off flavours.

Problem is that I don't really know what solved it... must have been weird hops in combination with bad temperature control.