Flanders Red/Oud Bruin commercial examples

[FilmLabRat]

I realize the two styles are similar, but I'm seeing a lot of ambiguity in stated styles.

La Folie, for instance, is listed on the New Belgium website as a "Sour Brown Ale" but is listed in the BJCP guidelines as a Flanders Red.

Petrus Oud Bruin, even says Oud Bruin in the name and is listed in the BJCP guidelines as a Flanders Red, and is not listed in the Oud Bruin section of the guidelines.

The confusion seems to be wide-spread, not just with BJCP. Any thoughts?

 

[spearko520]

jeff sparrow goes into a pretty good rundown of the difference in wild brews- even more confusing was that it was once an east/west flanders thing but some breweries make it kind of hard to distinguish - like bocker makes bellegem's which i guess is a bruin, but also cuvee de jacobins which is a flemish red. Like all styles, there is overlap since breweries make their beer and we try to contain it to a style, not the other way around. The sour ales can be the hardest to comparmentalize. I guess if NB calls their beer a sour brown ale, then that's what they think it is, and if the BJCP says it's a flanders red, then that's what THEY think it is. Thank micheal jackson, or they would all just be called beer...

 

[moti_mo]

One of the major distinctions is supposed to be the vessel used for aging. Historically the Flanders reds have been aged in oak barrels, yielding acetic acid from the natural infiltration of oxygen into the barrels during the aging process. Oud bruins on the other hand are typically aged in stainless steel tanks that don't allow oxygen permeation into the aging beer. Thus, they traditionally don't have a component of acetic acid.

If you taste some of the good examples of the style, you can pick up on this difference, although some (but not most) oud bruins are aged in oak. My favorite commercial example of a Flanders red is Cuvee de Jacobins Rouge. If you can get your hands on that one, you won't regret it. The best oud bruin I've had was a newschool version from Destihl.

 

[barrooze]

Oud Bruins are typically less sour than a Flanders Red. I've always thought that the reason BJCP put La Folie into 17B Flanders Red was because of the level of tartness and sourness, which are more along the lines of an FR.