Fisher-Price: My First BIAB All Grain SmAsH

[scottycope]

So, I finally decided to go all-grain, but with training wheels. I am making the switch from extract to BIAB all grain but I have some questions and need some advice. I hope I am keeping this fairly simple by trying a (sort of) SmAsH recipe.

I have an 11 Gallon kettle that I am going to use for my mash and boil (I hope). I plan on brewing a 5 Gallon batch but what I really want to do is split the wort post-mash / pre-boil so that I can try different hops. I plan on making 2 separate 2.5 Gallon batches after all is said and done.

Here's what I got:

10 Lbs Maris Otter

1st question - how much water do I need for my mash? Like I said, I have an 11 Gallon kettle. So, for a 5 Gallon batch, I was thinking of using 8 Gallons (too high? too low?) for my mash.

2nd question - at what temperature should I mash? I'm thinking 160F is probably to high and was thinking of something in the 152F family. So, basically, heat the water to 162F, turn off the heat and add my grains, right?

3rd question - how long should I mash? I've read things that 60 minutes is best but also that 90 minutes is the way to go.

So, then my mash is done. I was planning on no sparge and just draining & squeezing the grain bag. Now, since I wanted to split my wort, here's where I have some more questions. Basically, I was planning on putting half of my wort (3+ Gallons) into a (food grade) bucket while I boiled the other half for 60 minutes.

In the first half, I was going to use Cascade hops. I have 2 oz of them but was unsure of the timing. Ideas?

1 oz. @ 60 minutes
.5 oz. @ 15 minutes
.5 oz @ 5 minutes

Thoughts?

For the other wort, I was going to follow the same process but using Chinook hops instead. In both cases, are the hop amounts and times OK?

Also, do you see any issues with me keeping half of the wort in a bucket pre-boil? Like I said, it'll be there for 60 minutes, well, a little longer since there will be some time to get the first wort to boiling temps.

Oh, one other thing - do I need some sort of false bottom or something to prevent the grain bag from sitting on the bottom of the kettle during mash? If so, what do people use? Any good heat-resistant, waterproof gloves I can use while holding / draining the grain bag?

Wow. This post was a lot longer than I thought it was going to be. I hope I'm not rambling. I appreciate any thoughts and input!

Thanks!

 

[calvey]

I can help you with your water question. I am working on a new BIAB water calculator in preparation for my first BIAB as well. It is not done but close enough. I suppose we can call it a beta at this point. You can find it at http://biabcalculator.com

 

[newnick]

One of these can answer the first couple questions.
http://www.simplebiabcalculator.com/

http://www.copycalc.com/bob/BIAB

 

[Epimetheus]

The amount of mash water for BIAB can be calculated above. You do not have to add all that water at the beginning of the mash like true BIAB. It is helpful to make a thin mash and use as much water as practicable.

For efficiency, true BIAB depends on a thin wort with lots of water because some sugary wort will be left with the grains. The grain bundle drip-dries and does not have a sparge process to rinse sugar from the wet grains. Another advantage of true BIAB, the full volume of water will lose less temperature than lesser amounts because it has more thermal mass.

If the mash kettle is not large enough, you can mash with less than the full amount of water. After the mash you can do a dunk-sparge with the rest of the water to rinse out more sugars.

Your kettle at 11 gallons is large enough for true BIAB, a 5 gallon batch and 10 lbs of grain.


- 1 hour mash is fine. Adjust in later batches
- anywhere between 152 and 158 is fine. If you have read up on AG, you know higher temps leave more undigestable sugars for a maltier brew, lower temps create more fermentable product for a drier tasting brew.
- No problem keeping the wort around pre-boil. Think about it - the boil will kill most bugs that fell in.
- No problem squeezing the bag. Some people disagree and say it releases bitter tannins. Tannins are created by higher temps, like 170F. You can't release what ain't there. Crush away!

The whole thing sounds OK. go for it. RDWHAHB.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I would suggest heating your wort a bit, to 170 - 180 after removing the bag to stop conversion before splitting it in half. This will act like a mashout. I would also suggest getting a 2 or 4 quart pitcher, they are very handy for moving water or wort. Bad idea to try and pour a kettle w/ 7 gallons in it.

 

[scottycope]

Thanks for the input, guys. I took a look at all three calculators and calvey's biabcalculator and newnick's copycalc are giving pretty similar answers. I couldn't quite figure out the other one (simplebiabcalculator). So, thanks for sharing those links.

For my split batches, I plan on doing the following hop additions, each with Cascade and Chinook:

1 oz. @ 60 minutes
.5 oz. @ 15 minutes
.5 oz @ 5 minutes

Does that seem sufficient as far as timing is concerned? What about the amounts?

Also, do I need to be concerned about my bag sitting on the bottom of the kettle during the mash? From what I read, it looks like some people use a turkey fryer bucket with holes. Is that necessary? If not, how does everyone get around the bag hitting the bottom of the kettle?

What type of gloves do people use to hold / squeeze the grain bag? Everything I found is either heat-resistant or waterproof but not both.

Thanks Guys!

I appreciate your input / help.

 

[RM-MN]

So, I finally decided to go all-grain, but with training wheels. I am making the switch from extract to BIAB all grain but I have some questions and need some advice. I hope I am keeping this fairly simple by trying a (sort of) SmAsH recipe.

I have an 11 Gallon kettle that I am going to use for my mash and boil (I hope). I plan on brewing a 5 Gallon batch but what I really want to do is split the wort post-mash / pre-boil so that I can try different hops. I plan on making 2 separate 2.5 Gallon batches after all is said and done.

Here's what I got:

10 Lbs Maris Otter

1st question - how much water do I need for my mash? Like I said, I have an 11 Gallon kettle. So, for a 5 Gallon batch, I was thinking of using 8 Gallons (too high? too low?) for my mash.

2nd question - at what temperature should I mash? I'm thinking 160F is probably to high and was thinking of something in the 152F family. So, basically, heat the water to 162F, turn off the heat and add my grains, right?

3rd question - how long should I mash? I've read things that 60 minutes is best but also that 90 minutes is the way to go.

So, then my mash is done. I was planning on no sparge and just draining & squeezing the grain bag. Now, since I wanted to split my wort, here's where I have some more questions. Basically, I was planning on putting half of my wort (3+ Gallons) into a (food grade) bucket while I boiled the other half for 60 minutes.

In the first half, I was going to use Cascade hops. I have 2 oz of them but was unsure of the timing. Ideas?

1 oz. @ 60 minutes
.5 oz. @ 15 minutes
.5 oz @ 5 minutes

Thoughts?

For the other wort, I was going to follow the same process but using Chinook hops instead. In both cases, are the hop amounts and times OK?

Also, do you see any issues with me keeping half of the wort in a bucket pre-boil? Like I said, it'll be there for 60 minutes, well, a little longer since there will be some time to get the first wort to boiling temps.

Oh, one other thing - do I need some sort of false bottom or something to prevent the grain bag from sitting on the bottom of the kettle during mash? If so, what do people use? Any good heat-resistant, waterproof gloves I can use while holding / draining the grain bag?

Wow. This post was a lot longer than I thought it was going to be. I hope I'm not rambling. I appreciate any thoughts and input!

Thanks!

1. You have a large enough pot that space isn't your limitation. My pot is 7.5 gallons so I can't quite fit all the water and still get the grains in so I start with a bit less water and then sparge to get the proper pre-boil volume. Since you haven't done a batch yet, you won't really know what amount you will boil off so your water volume to start with is a guess plus you don't know how well you can squeeze the wort out of the bag yet either. Starting with 8 gallons wouldn't be a bad idea, starting with 6.5 and planning to sparge to volume wouldn't either. Your choice, but that little bit of sparge will likely up your efficiency by 5 to 10% since you will be rinsing out more sugars.

2, I've mashed at 152 for several batches and found my wort to be very fermentable with my FG ranging from 1.001 to 1.004. I've begun to mash higher, like 156 to 159. YMMV

3. The mash time depends mostly on the crush of your grains. With the typical crush from a LHBS, 60 minutes hits pretty close. If their crusher is set too wide, 75 to 90 might be needed. I mill my grains to the consistancy of coarse cornmeal. I mash for 10 minutes. Actual conversion time seems to be less than 3 minutes but you have to get the grains wet to the center and that takes time.

I don't add any heat during the mash and haven't even when I was mashing for 60 minutes. Insulate your mash tun (boil pot) and forget the heating. It's nearly impossible to get even heating in that mash with the bag getting in the way.

When I pull the bag out of the pot, I slip a bowl with a colander inside it under the bag so it will drain into the bowl which I empty into the pot at intervals when I have collected some amount and I'm heating the wort in the pot at the same time. When the bag of grains quits draining on its own, I use a lid from one of my kettles to press out more wort. That way I don't need the heatproof waterproof gloves. If I sparge to get to volume, I sparge with cold water. Now my grains are cool enough that I can squeeze out that last cup or so of wort without burning my hands.

When you have your wort heated up past 170, which should stop any more conversion, you can pour off part of it into a bucket. The white HDPE bucket can handle boiling wort so you don't need to worry about that.

 

[soccerdad]

I like the hop schedule. If it was me, I might do a hop stand with the 5 min hops but it's 6 of 1 and a half dozen of the other as far as late addition v. hop stands. It's gonna be good -- both of them.

 

[brokebucket]

My advice to you on the BIAB is keep it simple the first time. Read the good advice above, decide how you are going about it, and keep it simple. This really isnt complicated stuff, though it can seem that way because of everybody's little nuances on the same style of brewing. The beauty of BIAB is how easy it really is and how great an end product you can come out with.

As far as your hop schedule, you are adding two hops of greatly different strenths to your beers. If it were me, I would shoot for the same end result IBU's by adjusting your 60 minute hop additions amounts, while keeping the later additions the same. you will still end up with different ibu amounts, but it wont be so severe. Also, I would move the 5 minute addition to flame out. Nothing to back that statement up with, just the way I have done it.

Best of luck!

 

[scottycope]

This has been really informative. Based on the feedback here, I am going to do a mashout at around 170F to stop conversion as wilserbrewer suggested.

Also, I will plan on adjusting the IBUs of the hops. Pure oversight on my part, but I think it makes good sense when you consider that I really am trying to see/learn the difference between the hops.

And, RM-MN, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that if I turn the heat off and insulate my kettle, I won't need to worry about keeping the grain bag off the bottom of the kettle? I have some extra Refletix that I could use. Would that do the trick? If not, what else do people use to keep the bag off of the bottom?

Also, the white HDPE buckets are the same things most people use for primary fermenters, right? I'm guessing it's not an issue to hold hot wort in these buckets and then clean/sanitize them and use them as fermenters later, right? Do people use separate equipment for each?

wilserbrewer, do you have a "favorite" pitcher that you use? I've seen this one all over the homebrew forums: http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Group...-20&link_code=btl&camp=213689&creative=392969.

Thoughts?

Your various inputs have been invaluable so far. Thank you!

 

[RM-MN]

This has been really informative. Based on the feedback here, I am going to do a mashout at around 170F to stop conversion as wilserbrewer suggested.

Also, I will plan on adjusting the IBUs of the hops. Pure oversight on my part, but I think it makes good sense when you consider that I really am trying to see/learn the difference between the hops.

And, RM-MN, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that if I turn the heat off and insulate my kettle, I won't need to worry about keeping the grain bag off the bottom of the kettle? I have some extra Refletix that I could use. Would that do the trick? If not, what else do people use to keep the bag off of the bottom?

Also, the white HDPE buckets are the same things most people use for primary fermenters, right? I'm guessing it's not an issue to hold hot wort in these buckets and then clean/sanitize them and use them as fermenters later, right? Do people use separate equipment for each?

wilserbrewer, do you have a "favorite" pitcher that you use? I've seen this one all over the homebrew forums: http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Group...-20&link_code=btl&camp=213689&creative=392969.

Thoughts?

Your various inputs have been invaluable so far. Thank you!

Your reflectix should help a lot. I brew in my kitchen and only use a bath towel for insulation. Most of the time I only mash for 30 minutes and I'm experimenting with 10 minutes. For this batch you may want to stick with the 60 minutes to be sure you do get conversion.

 

[Rdom]

I use a couple of bath towels and it works fairly well. Consider checking the temp of the mash a couple of times the first few times you brew until you get to know your process and equipment and you figure out how much insulation you need for your situation. No need to keep the bag off the bottom during the mash unless you heat the kettle again. If you do, stir the grains the entire time the heat is on to prevent scorching the bag.

 

[mb82]

I'm using a couple of moving blankets. Today is the first run with the new electric system so one blanket is wrapped around the kettle through the whole process and the other was draped over the kettle while mashing. That is the current design till I come up with a prettier way.

 

[wilserbrewer]

wilserbrewer, do you have a "favorite" pitcher that you use? I've seen this one all over the homebrew forums: http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Group...-20&link_code=btl&camp=213689&creative=392969.

I have this one gallon pitcher...
http://www.amazon.com/Rubbermaid-30...1391718296&sr=1-3&keywords=rubbermaid+pitcher

I also have several 1/2 gallon plastic " bud light ", pitchers, they can be handy as well for sparge water. That aluminum pitchers looks nice, I wonder if the handle gets too hot if using it for hot water...

 

[TallDan]

My wife had the 8 cup NorPro Krona pot before i started homebrewing. I found it very nice to use and got the 12 cup version as well now.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000E2PO7/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

They've been good multipurpose pitchers/pots for vorlauf, transfer, heating small amounts of water/wort, etc..

FYI, the measuring marks on the 8cup are not very accurate on mine. I haven't checked the 12cup's marks, but in general, consider them more as estimates than measurements.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Also, do I need to be concerned about my bag sitting on the bottom of the kettle during the mash? From what I read, it looks like some people use a turkey fryer bucket with holes. Is that necessary? If not, how does everyone get around the bag hitting the bottom of the kettle?

What type of gloves do people use to hold / squeeze the grain bag? Everything I found is either heat-resistant or waterproof but not both.

.

Some folks like to put something in the bottom of the kettle, a pizza screen, veggie steamer, I have even heard of someone using a dinner plate. Other folks like to use a strainer basket to hold the bag and keep it off the bottom of the kettle. My opinion is less is more, and you really don't need anything but the bag. If your strike temperature was good and accurate, you can simply wrap the kettle with blankets, or an old winter coat. If you need to add a little heat, just heat gently and stir the mash well while heating and the bag won't scorch. Heating to mashout not required IMHO, Just my opinions above.

On the subject of squeezing the bag which everyone seems to love doing, I have found that given enough time almost all the wort will drain out of the bag without squeezing, it does take a little patience, but I prefer to use gravity rather than getting my hands sticky....YMMV. Others like to sparge a few quarts of cold water over the bag to cool it down a bit to make squeezing more pleasurable. I try to ignore the bag for a good 10-20 minutes and let it drain, then there really isn't much left to warrant additional molestation of the bag

I have never used gloves.

 

[scottycope]

This may seem like a silly question but, if I am a BIAB brewer, can I follow any all-grain recipe exactly how it is listed? Or do I need to make modifications to it?

Thanks!!

(BTW, my Rubbermaid plastic pitcher is on its way)!

 

[Rdom]

BIAB is all grain brewing so should be the same. You can make adjustments based on your system and efficiency just like any other AG brewer.

 

[RM-MN]

This may seem like a silly question but, if I am a BIAB brewer, can I follow any all-grain recipe exactly how it is listed? Or do I need to make modifications to it?

Thanks!!

(BTW, my Rubbermaid plastic pitcher is on its way)!

It doesn't work that way for me, I always have to modify the recipe to account for the higher efficiency I always get. Most recipes are written expecting 65 to 75% efficiency and if you consistently get 85%, you have to change the amount of base grains to account for that difference.

 

[scottycope]

RM-MN,

Is that normally the case? I was under the impression that BIAB was less efficient. I guess it really depends on the brewer?

Seems like brewing is really a very personal thing. I'm excited!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Home Brew mobile app

 

[RM-MN]

RM-MN,

Is that normally the case? I was under the impression that BIAB was less efficient. I guess it really depends on the brewer?

Seems like brewing is really a very personal thing. I'm excited!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Home Brew mobile app

Given the same crush of the grain there probably isn't much difference in the two methods if you do a sparge step with your BIAB. The way to gain efficiency is to mill your grains finer than what a conventional mash tun would allow. Since you have a bag to form a big filter area and the ability to squeeze out the wort instead of just letting gravity do it as you would have to with a conventional tun, you can force the wort out if it doesn't want to drain.

The original premise of BIAB was to put all the water into the pot and mash the grains in it, then drain and squeeze the grain, no sparge step. The sparge step rinses out more sugars so it increases the extraction at the expense of one more step in the process. Most people would use another pot to heat the sparge water but with some experimentation I have found that there is little to be gained by heating the water first, the grains are hot enough to warm the water considerably and that is enough to get most of the sugar to dissolve.

 

[mr_rogers]

I just go off of any one the great AG recipes listed in this site. I make the beer as described and I enjoy the additional points I get from BIAB!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[wilson42203]

FWIW, I did my first BIAB today--a 3 gallon batch of blonde ale. I mashed 6.5 lbs of grain in 4.5 gal of water. I did not sparge, but I did squeeze the bag. My brewhouse efficiency calculator said I achieved 77% efficiency. I was surprised it was so high since I had trouble keeping my mash temp steady.

Sent from my SGH-T999L using Home Brew mobile app