First time yeast starter/stir plateb questions

[rtstrider]

I've been full of questions this week in other threads! I finally finished up my stir plate and am using a quart mason jar for the stir plate. I have a few questions (and it seems to be varying results in searches so I'm looking to see what works best with your personal experience). When making a starter is it 2 cups water to 1/2 cup DME and 1/4 tsp yeast nutrient? Also once the yeast is pitched and the starter fermentation is done should I cold crash and decant before pitching the yeast into the wort? I'll be using Wyeast 3944.

It seems the consensus is give it 24 to 48 hours on the stir plate, cold crash for a day or so, decant, and pitch. Others say just go the 24-48 hours on the stir plate then pitch directly into the wort (no decant). From what I've been reading if you do not decant/cold crash you could be pitching oxidized starter beer into your wort.

Side question has anyone had luck propagating yeast out of bottles? I'm going to be trying this in the next couple of brews. I have a 5 pack of Bells Oberon I'd like to toy around with.

 

[GoeHaarden]

I use this starter-calculator to calculate how much DME to add per the amount of starter I'm making. I've never used yeast nutrient in my starters, and I've never had a problem.

I usually only go 18-24 hrs on the stir plate, but who knows what is the perfect amount of time. One thing to remember is that your goal is yeast propagation, and not necessarily fermentation of the starter.

I usually cold crash, for at least a day, and decant. I wouldn't worry about adding off flavors to your beer unless you're pitching massive starters, but I decant anyways so I dont have to worry about it.

My advice is figure out what works for you and roll with it, as there will be many opinions and ways of skinning the cat here. It's your brewing canvas, add the colors you want...

 

[jpakstis]

I go with the metric version since I have a scale. 1L/100 grams of DME is about 1.040 gravity. Its easily scale-able up and down (I usually make a 1.5L/150g version and decant the finished 0.5 for later use, like vitality starter). I used to add 1/4 tsp of nutrient but honestly I never noticed any improvement (and in fact anecdotally it seemed to be more robust not using the nutrient).

Honestly I let it run until it appears to be a healthy starter, i.e. it will look very opaque, almost like very light coffee with cream. That's usually within 2-3 days, but this last batch, I had harvested yeast from a few cans of Heady Topper and it took close to 4-5 days to get to that "creamy coffee" appearance.

If I am going to brew on the weekends, I try to make the starter the weekend before. That way I have enough time to get it healthy and then cold-crash. But honestly sometimes I even forget to cold crash and just leave it on and pitch the whole thing. Its never affected the taste of the finished beer. A 1L starter volume in about 5.5-6 gallons of wort is like 0.04% of the total volume if I did my match correctly (which I'm sure I didn't - irregardless its a small amount). I also use a very, very light DME (Pilsner DME for this last one) to have the starter wort least affect the finished product.

Also I alluded to it above, but on the side question - I've had great success propagating yeast. I've only done it with Alchemist beers but I've done it twice and gotten great results. For the first time I used the dregs of two cans and this latest one I used the dregs of three cans. I didn't even have to make a multi-step starter or anything too complicated. This last one took a little bit longer, mainly because I propagating the yeast of dregs I harvested in December, but still turned out good and healthy.

 

[rtstrider]

I go with the metric version since I have a scale. 1L/100 grams of DME is about 1.040 gravity. Its easily scale-able up and down (I usually make a 1.5L/150g version and decant the finished 0.5 for later use, like vitality starter). I used to add 1/4 tsp of nutrient but honestly I never noticed any improvement (and in fact anecdotally it seemed to be more robust not using the nutrient).

Honestly I let it run until it appears to be a healthy starter, i.e. it will look very opaque, almost like very light coffee with cream. That's usually within 2-3 days, but this last batch, I had harvested yeast from a few cans of Heady Topper and it took close to 4-5 days to get to that "creamy coffee" appearance.

If I am going to brew on the weekends, I try to make the starter the weekend before. That way I have enough time to get it healthy and then cold-crash. But honestly sometimes I even forget to cold crash and just leave it on and pitch the whole thing. Its never affected the taste of the finished beer. A 1L starter volume in about 5.5-6 gallons of wort is like 0.04% of the total volume if I did my match correctly (which I'm sure I didn't - irregardless its a small amount). I also use a very, very light DME (Pilsner DME for this last one) to have the starter wort least affect the finished product.

Also I alluded to it above, but on the side question - I've had great success propagating yeast. I've only done it with Alchemist beers but I've done it twice and gotten great results. For the first time I used the dregs of two cans and this latest one I used the dregs of three cans. I didn't even have to make a multi-step starter or anything too complicated. This last one took a little bit longer, mainly because I propagating the yeast of dregs I harvested in December, but still turned out good and healthy.

It looks like .5 L would be right at 10% of a 5 gallon batch. So yeah would probably be a good idea to decant. I'll go ahead and call the lhbs today to see the date production on the yeast package I ordered and work up the calcs

 

[gimmeaberrr]

I wouldn’t recommend cold crashing at all. By cold crashing you are forcing the yeast into a dormant state and making them rely on their glycogen stores for survival, then you’re warming them back up and pitching them. It’ll make for a big lag time. I always let my starter rip for 1-2 days and then pitch it right from the stir plate. This method ensures they are healthy and active and your ferment will take off quickly as a result.

 

[rtstrider]

Just reached out to the LHBS and the Wyeast 3944 MFG date is 6/28/18. Per the brewers friend yeast starter calculator I'll need to add 2oz dme to a .5 liter starter. Do you decant your starter?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Math!

5 gallons = 19 liters
1L is 5% of 5 gallons
0.5L is 2.6% of 5 gallons

Try some brews with the crash and decant.
Try some brews with just pitching the whole starter.
If you think you can tell a difference, go with whichever you like. It's all good.
"Vitality starters" are a thing too.

 

[GoeHaarden]

Try some brews with the crash and decant.
Try some brews with just pitching the whole starter.
If you think you can tell a difference, go without whichever you like. It's all good.
"Vitality starters" are a thing too.

Agreed. Not sure there is going to be a perfect technique consensus on this topic. Just have to try out what works for you.

FWIW, about half my brews are lagers these days and I make a 1 gallon starter for them. I don't really want to dump the whole thing into a pilsner, nor do I want to experiment for no reason. Thus, I decant. Couldn't tell you the last time I really had one lag, but I typically over-pitch and my lager even jump off quick.

I think the whole glycogen reserve argument is bogus. I mean we store the packaged liquid yeast in the fridge to preserve the cell count. Damned if you do, damned it you don't. I'll continue to decant...

 

[Hopsimus]

I personally only decant with large starters. Otherwise I just dump the whole thing in. Never had any issues. No off flavors that I can detect.

I generally only wait 24 hours to pitch (unless decanting, then I'll give it an extra day or two so I can let the yeast propagate before cooling it down).

Over the last 30 brews or so I've never had any fail to start quickly. Even the decanted ones.

Cheers!

 

[mrveeno]

I don't understand all the "no starter" stuff for dry yeast. I always use a starter and always have success. One of the reasons I do it is to make sure the yeast is good. I've purchased bad yeast before and the only supply store is about 20 miles away.

A few other things:
1. I have always used an airlock on my yeast, as I am afraid of contamination.
2. I don't use any specific formula for the starter, and have even used sugar when I was out of DME.
3. I have just made a stir plate after seeing an article on the AHA website, so will try that without the airlock and hope it works.

All of that being said, my beers come out great.

 

[blackelbow]

To cut costs, I've been saving trub from the bottle of my kettle in jars, letting it settle out in the fridge, then pouring off the clear wort that gathers on top. That gets diluted for starters , so no need for extract.

Stir plate for 2-3 days, cold crash for 2, decant (sometimes a vitality starter before pitching). I decant mainly to avoid diluting my future beer with starter wort that will probably be lower OG, maybe a different color, etc.

Homebrew Dad's spreadsheet to calculate size: http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php

Culturing yeast, for me, has been hit or miss. With fresh bottles, I've had good luck, but many imported beers are too old. Had success with some fresh Orval bottles recently.

 

[rtstrider]

Wanted to give an update. I got a yeast starter going Friday night. I used 2 cups RO water and 2 oz Briess Pilsen Light DME. Put on the stir plate and let it go for 24 hours, cold crashed in a temp controlled freezer for 18 hours or so at 40F, decanted, then pitched. In around 10 hours or so I have VERY strong ferment going! Next thing I want to play with is to try harvesting some yeast from the primary for another wit...After that I'm going to play with yeast harvesting from Bells Oberon bottles. I do have another question though. For future starters should I look at adding any yeast nutrient and if so how much is recommended?

 

[RPh_Guy]

I add a gram of Fermaid K to my starters.
It's another one of those things where everyone does it differently and there's no right or wrong way

Make a small initial starter when harvesting dregs.

 

[Hopsimus]

I add an 1/8 of a teaspoon to my 1 liter starters. I don't know if it makes any difference either, but I like to do it.
Also, if you are using RO water, I would think it would be even more valuable to add the nutrient.

I have no actual proof of it making any difference though

 

[rtstrider]

Update

24 hours since pitching the yeast and this stuff is going nuts! I've brewed close to 20 batches now and have never had something this nuts before. Usually I get an air bubble every second or two in the airlock. Well this is popping 4-5 bubbles a second! The krausen is the highest Krausen I've had in my setup. Ended up swapping out the airlock for a blow off hose setup before bed in case the yeast decides to make an appearance lol

Edit: forgot to add I add 2 grams of yeast nutrient at the 10 minute boil mark to every batch now. Have noticed it tends to ferment a tad quicker. Will add the nutrient to the starters from now on though

 

[VTX1300]

I used distilled water for my starters till I read somewhere that you shouldn't use RO or distilled as the yeast needs some of the minerals for healthy reproduction. I don't know if that is true of not. I started using bottled spring water and my starters do seem to do better. Maybe it's just my imagination?

 

[rtstrider]

I usually use filtered water (charcoal fridge filter) when rehydrating dry yeast. Think that would be a good idea for a starter?

 

[Hopsimus]

I usually use filtered water (charcoal fridge filter) when rehydrating dry yeast. Think that would be a good idea for a starter?

I use regular tap water for my starters. However, the water where I live contains chloramine, so I add the smallest pinch of a campden tablet to the water to remove the chloramine and/or chlorine. The volumes of liquid are so small it probably doesn't matter, but I like to do it anyway.

For rehydrating yeast, I use filtered water like you. I don't add any campden to those, since it's such a small amount of water.

Filtered water should be fine for starters. I don't believe most filters remove chloramine though, so keep that in mind.

 

[VTX1300]

I usually use filtered water (charcoal fridge filter) when rehydrating dry yeast. Think that would be a good idea for a starter?

As long as you don't have chlorine or chloramine in your water that would be a good choice.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Charcoal filters remove chlorine and chloramine.