First time yeast starter for 1.134 OG stout

[strongarm]

I just ordered my ingrediants for my imperial stout. OG is calculated at 1.134 and I am using WL099 super high gravity yeast, purchased 1 vial. I also bought a 2l flask since I have never done a yeast starter. My question is beersmith says I need to 7.64l starter if I read that right. Does this sound accurate. What is the best way creating such a big starter if my flask is only 2l? Sorry for the novice question.

 

[PseudoChef]

You'll either have to step it up a few times or make a smaller starter, use that to brew a smaller beer, then use the harvested yeast from that batch on your Imperial Stout.

 

[permo]

I would use a minimum of a 3 liter starter if you have a stir plate.

If you have no stir plate, you are best using a yeast cake from a lower powered batch of beer. Cream ale works good for this

 

[Sulli]

How much beer are you brewing and what's the date on your vial?

 

[ihearthops]

You either need around a 5L starter (assuming you only use one vial; also assuming you're using a stir plate for continuous aeration), or pitch 2 vials into a 2 liter starter -- either should net you around 450 billion cells.

This is all assuming you're talking about a 5-5.5 gallon batch and pitching fresh vials/packs of yeast.

 

[Polboy]

i would delay your impe stout for two week and brew pale ale instead then use yeast cake for IS fermentation

 

[hercher]

+1 on doing an intermediate brew, then pitching your stout onto the yeast cake. That is a huge beer, and is going to need a lot of yeast to finish.

 

[Stauffbier]

Since I only have a 2L container I will make a 2L starter, then decant half of the yeast into a sanitized jar and build another 2L starter with the other half. Every time I make a new 2L step-up I decant a higher percentage of yeast so it doesn't crowd up. I'll do this as many times it takes to get to the approximate cell count I need. Then on brew day I take all the jars, decant the liquid & combine them. I then wake it up with a cup or two of wort and pitch it when it's awake..

 

[tdogg]

sounds like alot of work. im sure it will work, but still alot of work. you can always make a really big starter right in your fermenter, then rack off the starter beer and pitch the RIS onto the cake. At that point you might as well put hops in the starter beer so you can drink it!

 

[strongarm]

Wow, lots of suggestions here. So...I have my imperial stout fermenting, the one I messed up the first time and lost too much volume to barrel age. Can I use the yeast cake from that to put into my new batch or is that not a good idea. In that original brew I used 2 Wyeast 1098 smack packs in that brew.

Out of the options recommended above the easiest one for me would be to buy another vial and put 2 vials int the 2l starter.

I do not have a stir plate. Also I'm doing a 6G batch using fresh yeast.

 

[kosmokramer]

ya,,, you are definitely going to need a big starter. from what i have read 099 isnt a very good yeast for flavor it gives off. I just did a 120 min clone with a big starter of 007 and after that got through primary fermentation i added the 099 to eat up the rest of the sugars. I did a 6 liter starter of 007 and a 5 liter starter of 099. Adjusted OG of my batch was about 1.187 and is down to about 1.014 and still bubbling away. A big beer like that is def not something to rush into

 

[triangulum33]

Do your best to keep your fermentation the desired temperature!

 

[kh54s10]

Check out yeastcalc.com for information on making a step starter.

I did one from 10 mL frozen yeast. I started with .5 liters, decanted and added wort to 1 liter then decanted again and did a final step with 1.5 liters of wort. The brew kicked off in less than 6 hours. The beer turned out great.

 

[hercher]

What's the ABV in your imperial stout? If it's truly a high grav beer, that yeast might be a bit tired and you'd be better off with fresh yeast. On the other hand, the surviving yeast might be cells that tolerate the alcohol better.

 

[strongarm]

10.5% on the current stout. Fermenting for 3 weeks now.

 

[ihearthops]

Wow, lots of suggestions here. So...I have my imperial stout fermenting, the one I messed up the first time and lost too much volume to barrel age. Can I use the yeast cake from that to put into my new batch or is that not a good idea. In that original brew I used 2 Wyeast 1098 smack packs in that brew.

Out of the options recommended above the easiest one for me would be to buy another vial and put 2 vials int the 2l starter.

I do not have a stir plate. Also I'm doing a 6G batch using fresh yeast.

If you don't have a stir plate, and only plan on pitching 2 vials, then you'll want to make sure you're frequently shaking/swirling the flask to ensure the yeast have an ample supply of oxygen. If you'd rather air on the side of caution, pitch 3 vials into your 2L starter. I'd also advocate pitching the starter at high krausen, which is typically 14-20 hours after pitching the yeast into the flask -- no need to crash cool and decant at the 2L volume.

 

[strongarm]

I ended up buying 3 vials of WL007. I am doing a 2l yeast starter with it today and plan on pitching the entire thing when I brew 2 days from now. So, just to be clear I don't need to cold crash it and decant the starter right?

 

[triangulum33]

If I do a smallish starter (1L), I pitch it at its peak fermentation 12-18hrs. If its a big starter (2L+), I crash and decant off the "beer" and pitch just the yeast.
I dont know if it matters, but I dont like the thought of a half gallon of starter beer in my brew.

 

[strongarm]

So since this is my first yeast starter can someone look at my process to make sure im not missing something.

Fill 2L flask with 1.6L of filtered water and heat to 185, add 8oz light DME and stir. Bring to rolling boil and wait 15 minutes. Remove from burner and cover top with sanatized foil place in a ice bath to cool to 75 degrees. Once under 75degrees pitch 3 vials of WL007 yeast and cover with foam stopper. Swirl as frequently as possible. Store at 70 degrees. 40 hours later when brew is made pitch yeast starter directly into bucket hopefully at maximum krausen. Also I planned on using fermcap in the starter...I guess less than a drop if possible.

Since I am doing a 6 gallon imperial stout at 13%ABV im thinking the 2L starter being pitched as is won't affect the flavor profile or gravity too much?

 

[triangulum33]

Its REALLY easy to boil over in the flasks. I boil the starter wort in a regular pot first for a few min to get rid of foam, then pour into the flask and boil in the flask for 10 min.

If your going to pitch the whole starter and not crash/decant, make it 12-18hrs before and pitch it while the yeast are at the peak of activity.

 

[strongarm]

Ok, I will wait till tomorrow evening then to do my starter since im brewing Saturday morning.

 

[triangulum33]

Ok, I will wait till tomorrow evening then to do my starter since im brewing Saturday morning.

Good plan!

 

[strongarm]

Brewed last week, OG came in at 1.129. I did the starter and fermentation was very active. Even with 18 drops of fermcap and a 65 degrees fermentation temperature the lid popped and had minor lose due to krausen overflow. Anyways. Just took a reading. Surprised to see it at 1.036 already. I think i might get this below 1.028 without even pitching the 099. This attenuation seems aggressive? Over 90 points in 10 days. My airlock is still has a bubble about every 45 seconds. Here is my question if it finishes out with the 007 at 1.28 or lower should I just leave it at that or still pitch the 099 and see I I can get a few more points out of it?