First Recipe Question

[celtic_man81]

I am new to the home brewing world, but I do feel ready to be making my own recipe. I have done about 5 batches of beer (the 5th being the best turned out). Three using beer kits (the rest were custom and didn't turn out, one using purely herbs, the other may have turned out if I hadn't burned my batch . Anyways, I am trying to make a dark ale of sorts. I have been reading bits and pieces from "Home brewing for Dummies" and it insinuates that you have to use regular grains along with "specialty grains" (if you are using them), such as crystal malt. My question is, can I use "Specialty grains" only, or do I have to have regular grains as well? The book refers the regular grains as the "building blocks" (which is why I am asking). Thanks for suggestions.

 

[Orfy]

It depends.

If you are using malt extract then this can be your building blocks (Bulk)

There are 2 types of speciality grain.
Some will had to the building blocks (bulk) of the beer by adding feremntable sugar. So for these you'd replace the extract. They'll also add colour and flavour.
Others will just add flavour and colour and will add little to the bulk of the beer.

My advice, if experimenting, change small things to start until you build your skill level so you don't waste precious beer and money.

 

[RichBrewer]

I would also suggest getting a better book about home brewing. It sounds to me with the questions you've asked Home Brewing for Dummies didn't really give you enough information.
There are some good ones out there. My recommendation is Charlie Papazian's The New Complete Joy of Home Brewing.

At your level of brewing you are probably going to do an extract with steeped grains beer. You will be using grains such as crystal, chocolate, and dextrin. They don't have to be mashed to be used.

When you do formulate your recipe, post it here. We can help you refine it.

 

[celtic_man81]

Finally! My password is reset! I was going to respond sooner, but for some reason my password got screwed up. Anyways, I do have a pseudo recipe, as I am still tweeking it. The various amounts ie; 3 oz, 5 lbs, 1oz, are from various recipies. I was trying to figure out and average estimate (so I do use too much of something or too little). As for the PH balances, I am just going to tweek those if I need to.



Crystal Malt, 10-120 (in degree Lovibonds): 6 oz, 8 oz, .5 lb, 2 lbs
Special "B", 221: .33 lbs
Choco... Malt, 350: 6 oz, .75 lbs, 1 lb
Black Malt, 500: 2 oz, 12 oz, .25 lbs, 1 lb


Hops

Challenger, 6.5-8.5 (Alpha): 1.5 oz
Fuggles, 4-5.5: 1.5 oz, 2 oz


Finishing Hop(s)

Saaz, 3-6: .33 oz, 1.25 oz,


Yeast

Stout Ale, Irish Ale


Extra

Cinnamon: 2-3 sticks
Corriander: 1 oz seeds
Allspice: --
Nutmeg: --
Ginger: --
Chocolate: --
Liquorice: 1-2 sticks


Surgar

Corn surgar: 3-3.5 kg
Mollasses: 6 oz 12 oz
Maple syrup: .5 cup - 1cup


Adjunct(s)

Oats: 2 cups - 1 lb
Irish Moss: 25 g - 50 g


PH Balance

Chalk:
Gypsum:
Epsom Salt:

 

[david_42]

I can't even guess from this what kind of ale you are trying to make. There are enough numbers here to make about 30 styles.

You should decide what style you are trying to make, then find some recipes, brew one of those, THEN make mods.

 

[Orfy]

Why all those different sugars? Why sugar at all? Not over 3.5kg of the stuff.
I don't think you can call that beer.

You need to use a malt base to call it beer.

 

[the_bird]

Yeah, that's not really "beer". You need some extract in there. Honestly, you have way, way too many "extras" going on in that recipe. Take a step back, work with an established porter or stout receipe, get that dialed in before doing too much of the out-of-the-box stuff. Do a batch straight-up, then try adding some mollasses, then maybe some of the other stuff, but doing it all at once? I would highly doubt you'd end up with somethingterriby drinkable, even if you subbed out malt extract for the corn sugar.

 

[celtic_man81]

OK, as I've said before, I am still fudging the numbers. The stuff listed is just things I would like to include; it may or may not be added. This is just more of an idea right now. As I put it, a pseudo recipe. It isn't a final recipe. I would though like to keep the hops and the grains in I have listed. Also, like I said the numbers I have (ie; 6 oz, 8 oz, .5 lb, 2 lbs), are numbers I got from various recipies just to give me an idea of what I can add (or subtract).

I can't even guess from this what kind of ale you are trying to make. There are enough numbers here to make about 30 styles.

You should decide what style you are trying to make, then find some recipes, brew one of those, THEN make mods.

To answer your question, I am trying to make a dark stout or ale.

Yeah, that's not really "beer". You need some extract in there. Honestly, you have way, way too many "extras" going on in that recipe. Take a step back, work with an established porter or stout receipe, get that dialed in before doing too much of the out-of-the-box stuff. Do a batch straight-up, then try adding some mollasses, then maybe some of the other stuff, but doing it all at once? I would highly doubt you'd end up with somethingterriby drinkable, even if you subbed out malt extract for the corn sugar.

You are right, I did leave out malt extract. I wasn't sure what to put in, so I didn't put it in (as well as I forgot to put a heading for it). Sorry 'bout the confusion.
If any of you can make suggestions, it would be most appreciated.

 

[Orfy]

Just to say well done at having a go at your own recipe. But it pays to follow proven recipes/tecniques to get going.

Take out the Sugar and replace with dried or liquid malt extract, then you'll have beer. Try to make it easy by using less ingredients. And I'd definitely forgo the spices. Let the malt give it the taste.

Here's a nice one.

http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator?#tag

If you get it right and you like it then try changing/adding things.

 

[celtic_man81]

Just to say well done at having a go at your own recipe. But it pays to follow proven recipes/tecniques to get going.

Take out the Sugar and replace with dried or liquid malt extract, then you'll have beer. Try to make it easy by using less ingredients. And I'd definitely forgo the spices. Let the malt give it the taste.

Here's a nice one.

http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator?#tag

If you get it right and you like it then try changing/adding things.

Nice! Thanks a lot, I'll give that a try as well.

 

[Orfy]

Good luck, let us know how it goes. Post you final recipe.

 

[celtic_man81]

OK, I think I've finally got a basic recipe. I do plan to add my spices and whatnot, but for now, I'm going to focus on fixing the basic recipe. I did do this with a program: http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator. (thanks orfy). Let me know if this looks good; if not, what should I change? Thanks.

Beer: Dark Ale (batch 6) Style: Irish Dry Stout

Type: Extract w/grain, Size: 20 liters
Color: 245 HCU, Bitterness: 5 IBU
OG: 1.047, FG: 1.008

Alcohol: 5.0% v/v (4.0% w/w)

Grain: 1 lb. Belgian Special B
2 lb. British crystal 135-165L
.5 lb. Belgian chocolate
1 lb. British black patent
.2 lb. Flaked oats
Boil: minutes SG 1.313 3 liters
4 lb. Corn sugar
.2 lb. Maple syrup
1 lb. Molasses

Hops: 1 oz. Fuggles (4.75% AA, 60 min.)
2 oz. Cluster (7% AA, 30 min.)

Finishing hop: 1 oz. Saaz (3.75% AA, 1 week)

One more thing to add: I am choosing between Stout Ale and Irish Ale for the yeast

 

[the_bird]

Again, where's the malt extract? You do NOT want 4lbs of corn sugar as your primary fermentables; corn sugar should generally be used for priming, that's it. When used, it shouldn't be more than 10% - 20% (at most) of your fermentables, and for most styles, it should be 0%.

That's a lot of black patent; most stouts call for about a half pound or so. You risk this batch being VERY roasty, TOO roasty.

That's also a lot of mollasses. Mollasses are appropriate for some porter recipes, but that's a lot. Generally, half a pound seems to be the limit, and it isn't something that you would find in a stout.

I've never used Special B, but I'm pretty sure that it's usually used in far smaller quantities than a full pound (like, a quarter or eighth pound).

Finally, two pounds of crystal is a lot. This will add a lot of residual sweetness and body to the brew.

The key, though, is that corn sugar - you just can't have that much in a beer, it's not going to taste right.

I'm not sure about the bitterness calculation; that looks like more than 5 IBUs. Not necessarily wrong, but there's something weird in the calculation.

 

[celtic_man81]

Again, where's the malt extract?

Oops, I knew I was forgetting something. As for the rest, I'll fix it up, thanks.

 

[celtic_man81]

Ok, here's an update, this should be ok. If it still need tweeking, give me a shout. Thanks.

Beer: Dark Ale (batch 6), Style: Irish Dry Stout
Type: Extract w/grain, Size: 20 liters
Color: 180 HCU, Bitterness: 5 IBU
OG: 1.049, FG: 1.008
Alcohol: 5.3% v/v (4.1% w/w)

Grain: .2 lb. Belgian Special B
2 lb. British crystal 135-165L
.2 lb. Belgian chocolate
.5 lb. British black patent
.2 lb. Flaked oats

Boil: 60 minutes, SG 1.326, 3 liters
.2 lb. Maple syrup
.5 lb. Molasses
3.5 lb. Dark dry malt extract
1 lb. Corn sugar

Hops: 2 oz. Cluster (7% AA, 60 min.)
1 oz. Fuggles (4.75% AA, 60 min.)

Finishing hop: 1 oz. Saaz (3.75% AA, 1 week.)

As for priming surgar, is 500 g (about 1 lb )ok?

 

[Yooper]

I'd still ditch the corn sugar- it adds nothing at all to your beer except cider-y flavors. I don't have brewing software- if ditching the corn sugar lowers the ABV more than you'd like, replace it with DME. With the maple syrup and molasses, you still have almost a pound of sugars.

Lorena

 

[the_bird]

That's still a LOT of different flavors going on, so many that I bet you'll be hard-pressed to tell what's doing what. Maple syrup, for example, needs to be used in pretty substantial quantities or you won't notice it. so I'd just drop it THIS time.

There's plenty of time and plenty of beer to do experiments - you don't have to try EVERYTHING out at once.

 

[Orfy]

LISTEN TO THE ADVICE>>>>>>

The people on this forum have a lot of experience.

Corn sugar is not good for fermentables.....

 

[celtic_man81]

Ok, I've made yet another update for this recipe. So far, I think it looks ok. Also, I misread the bitterness scale using the Recipator program (sorry), I've added in the correct approxiamate IBUs. As for the other IBU listed, I'm not sure what it's for, but I have it in as well. I also got rid of the corn sugar and added more DME. As for the maple syrup, I want to keep that in (to give it a bit of Canadian twist). Anymore suggestions work be great. Thanks (and big thanks to those who have helped me so far).

Beer: Dark Ale (batch 6), Style: Irish Dry Stout
Type: Extract w/grain, Size: 20 liters
Color: 187 HCU, Bitterness: 6 IBU, 30-40 IBU
OG: 1.046, FG: 1.008
Alcohol: 4.9% v/v (3.8% w/w)

Grain: .2 lb. Belgian Special B
2 lb. British crystal 135-165L3
.2 lb. Belgian chocolate
.5 lb. British black patent
.2 lb. Flaked oats

Boil: 60 minutes SG 1.326 3 liters
.2 lb. Maple syrup
.5 lb. Molasses
4 lb. Dark dry malt extract


Hops: 2 oz. Cluster (7% AA, 60 min.)
1 oz. Fuggles (4.75% AA, 60 min.)

Finishing hop: 1 oz. Saaz (3.75% AA, 1 week.)

 

[Orfy]

One the face of it that looks a lot better. You can actually call it beer now.
For a first partial mash batch I think it's very ambitious with lots of different ingredients that aren't needed.
Why the Belgian grain in a stout? And why the two different hops at 60 minute.
You'd normally have, Bittering at 60m Flavour at 30 min and aroma at 5min or flame out. I've never heard of an Irish stout with maple syrup for a Canadian twist But it's your brew and you should run with it if you want to.
Good luck. When are you looking to do it?

 

[Brewsmith]

The 2 lbs of crystal seems to be a lot. I'd use 1 lb max. 2 lbs of that high lovibond rating will leave a lot of residual sweetness. It's won't be a dry stout. I'd use about 0.5 lb. of crystal 60.

Also, I see you have no roasted barley. Stouts use roasted barley for the color and flavor. For dark grains I'd use 0.5 lb of roasted barley and then maybe a little chocolate and balck patent, maybe up to 0.25 lb each.

With the dark grains in there, you don't need dark extract. Just use regular pale extract. They use dark grains already in the process of making the extract, you shouldn't need to add it again.

For the Fuggles hops, I'd add them later, like in the last 15 minutes. The Cluster hops should do the bittering job fine, and you probably only need 1.25 oz of them.

And as far as the molasses and maple syrup, I'd use one or the other, not both.

-edit- the Cluster hops

 

[celtic_man81]

Why the Belgian grain in a stout? When are you looking to do it?

Well, I am not making a traditonal stout. I find with stouts, it lacks a little flavour. One of my favourites beers, Guinness, it is the creamiest damn thing I have ever tasted, but it needs more flavour. That's why I've added the Saaz in there: for spice (as well as the different spices I plan to put in there, corriander, nutmeg, etc). My favourite German ale, Aventinus, has lots of flavour and spice, but lacks the 'punch' Guinness has. I thought I would make (what I consider), the perfect brew. The belgian grain I put in there to add a bit of flavour, but also to help with the darkness (also to be different ). I plan to make this brew when I have the money and when my other brew runs out at about half, (I still have about 3/4 of a case!).

 

[Orfy]

Well you're putting a lot of thought into it.
It's definitely going to be different.