First Partial Mash - Is my recipe okay?

[Unibrow]

Hey fellow brew junkies. I found this recipe for a PM Belgian Style like Hoegaarden and wanted to know if this sounds okay to y'all. Suggestions, comments or ideas are welcome

Mash water amount: 2 gallons
Sparge amount: 2 gallons
Top off with spring water for a 5 gallon batch

For the Mash:
4 oz flaked oats
4 oz biscuit malt
4 oz white wheat malt
4 lbs pale 2 row

After the Mash/Sparge, add while heating to boil:
6 lbs wheat DME

Hops:
1/2 oz Centennial 45 min boil
1/2 oz Saaz for 15 min boil

With 5 minutes left in boil:
1 oz fresh cut Valencia orange peel
1 gram crushed grains of paradise
1.5tsp powdered coriander
1 lb light Clover honey

Yeast
Thinking to use, US-05, wyeast 1056 or 3643 forbidden fruit

What do you think? Is this good for my first attempt at PM!?!? Thanks!

 

[pericles]

That's a pretty thick mash, but it's not unheard of. The recipe looks like it's in the realm of a saison. Brew it and let us know how it turns out.

 

[Unibrow]

Thanks for the quick reply Pericles.

How should I scale it back? To make it more Wit and less Saison?

Thanks!!

 

[pericles]

Sorry! I meant to type wit, and typed Saison by mistake.

The truth is, though, that the defining characteristics of both beers are really generated by the yeast, not by the grain-bill. I think that your grain-bills is basically fine, but your choice of yeasts will not produce what you want - you'll get basically an American Wheat.

If you want a Belgian Wit, then you need one of the White Labs or Wyeast products - there are many options, but WLP400 is a good one.

In my opinion, spices aren't appropriate for a belgian style wit: the fermentation should add they spice and fruit tones to the beer, not the recipe. The style is very much a less-is-more one, and loading up with junk in the boil really misses the point. That's just me, though, and lots of people disagree.

 

[Unibrow]

Cool, thanks for the tip!

I'll check out the WLP400 - if I can't find that at my LHBS, let me know a decent substitute if you know of one. Thanks!

BTW - I've only used dry yeast packets so I'll need to do a yeast starter with WLP400, yeah? Thanks again to all who post here

 

[onipar]

In my opinion, spices aren't appropriate for a belgian style wit: the fermentation should add they spice and fruit tones to the beer, not the recipe. The style is very much a less-is-more one, and loading up with junk in the boil really misses the point. That's just me, though, and lots of people disagree.

Yeah, I sort of disagree, but I see what you're saying. I guess it depends how much of those spices you want to come out. Most Wits will have a pretty strong coriander/orange flavor coming through. Some versions, too much (in my opinion). If I remember correctly, Hoegaarden is on the lighter side of the spice flavor. To me it has a cleaner/crisper flavor than a lot of other Wits.

I guess what I'm saying is that I feel like the Wit can be done all sorts of ways, depending on how much of that spice/orange flavor you want in it, but it certainly wouldn't be out of style to put the spices and orange peel in.

 

[Unibrow]

Cool. I like that I have Stroudsburg and Bryn Mawr helping me out here.

I will probably add a little orange peel and coriander at flameout, just for the halibut.

 

[pericles]

Well. . . if you want to brew a beer that tastes like a Belgian Wit, you need a belgian wit strain of yeast - the style is all about the yeast. I'm not aware of a dry strain that will be style appropriate, which means you need a liquid yeast.

If your LHBS doesn't have WLP400, WLP410 is another good substitute. If it doesn't have either, or their Wyeast equivalents, then I think you need to order one from one of the MANY homebrew sites online - Northern Brewer, MoreBeer, Nikobrew, Hoptech, whatever - they'll all have what you need.

As for a starter. . . yes, a starter would definitely be good. But it's not usually a good idea for brewers to try TWO new techniques in the same beer - lots of new procedures make for lots of silly errors and, even if you do everything perfectly, it's hard to track down what characteristics in the final beer are a result of which procedure. (In other words, if this is the best beer you ever brew, is that because of the partial mash, or the starter? If there's an infection, is that because of the partial mash, or the starter? Etc.)

This is a pretty low gravity beer, so I think you can get away without doing a starter. If you're worried about pitching ENOUGH yeast, maybe just buy double the amount and use that. Then, do a starter next time.

On a different note - I definitely agree with onipar: adding spices isn't out of style for a Belgian Wit and, if that's how you like it, you will be in good company. My comments on your grainbill/spices/hops are purely a matter of my own taste.

 

[pericles]

(Also, since you brought up Bryn Mawr - Cleveland does indeed rock, I went to college there.)

 

[Unibrow]

Awesome! Really appreciate the quick and thorough replies here...

 

[Unibrow]

Case Western, CSU, John Carrol, Baldwin Wallace?

 

[onipar]

Cool. I like that I have Stroudsburg and Bryn Mawr helping me out here.

I will probably add a little orange peel and coriander at flameout, just for the halibut.

Ha, PA represent! :rockin:

If you're interested, here are the style guidelines: http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style16.php

About the starter, if I'm not mistaken this is a liquid strain in a vial? Then you'll definitely want to do a starter with it.

EDIT: Whoa, I totally missed all those posts after my last. Ninja'd!

 

[JonM]

I've made a wit a couple times and had GREAT results with WLP400. Just watch out with that one, it's notorious for huge krausen.

Also, ive had nice results with coriander seed that I've crushed in a mortar and pestle right before adding to the boil. I don't know whether powdered coriander is better or what, but my gut says powdered coriander might be pretty potent.

 

[onipar]

I've made a wit a couple times and had GREAT results with WLP400. Just watch out with that one, it's notorious for huge krausen.

Also, ive had nice results with coriander seed that I've crushed in a mortar and pestle right before adding to the boil. I don't know whether powdered coriander is better or what, but my gut says powdered coriander might be pretty potent.

Oh yeah, i forgot to mention that: You'll be better off with coriander seeds crushed a little bit.

 

[pericles]

Oberlin, actually. My wife went to Case.

 

[billf2112]

Good advise from my PA Breathen. Don't overlook what JonM says anyone with a goatee and a gun is worth listening to.

 

[Unibrow]

I did the partial mash recipe with 3.5 pounds of DME - and the original grain bill of almost 5 pounds. The mash temp after 1 hour was about 152 so that seemed like a success on my first attempt. Skipped the honey but used 1/4 tsp Coriander powder and zest of 4 valencia oranges, then strained the wort into the bucket. Added 2 gallons of bottled spring water to cool everything down to about 75 degrees.

Pitched the WLP400 yeast (no starter) with just under 5 gallons in the fermenter.

Almost 24 hours later, the airlock is bubbling very steady. About 1 bubble per second.

Fermenting at 68-70 and plan to keep it there for 1 week, then boost up the temp to about 70-73 for 2 more weeks in primary. So I plan to bottle in 3 weeks but it may be closer to 18-19 days depending on my patience. My LHBS guru told me he has used WLP400 and bottled after 11 days with great results, but I want to wait a bit longer.

Any other input is welcome! Thanks for all your help so far.

 

[pericles]

My LHBS guru told me he has used WLP400 and bottled after 11 days with great results, but I want to wait a bit longer.

You're LHBS guru is right: this should be ready to bottle after ten days or so in the primary. Most people agree that wheat beers do NOT do well with aging; while two weeks in the primary is fine, I wouldn't leave it much longer than that (assuming it's fully attenuated) and I DEFINITELY wouldn't follow the "longer is better" advice that you see a lot of on this board: it's not appropriate for wheats and IPAs.

 

[pericles]

Also: congrats!

 

[Unibrow]

Thanks P

I'll grab a SG sample in 2 weeks and see where it's at. If my SG is 1.013 or lower, I will probably bottle. Any higher than 1.013 and I'll wait a few more days.

After about 28 hours of fermenting at 69 degrees the bubbling is VERY active. The smell out of the airlock is actually very good. Many people have reported the WLP400 being extremely nasty with sulphur so I'm trying to avoid that.

More updates to come...I hope the rotten eggs smell doesn't kick in

 

[Unibrow]

Ack - I came home from work to find my fermenter bucket's thermometer up around 75-77 cause I forgot to hit the right setting on my AC unit. It was only that high for appx 5-6 hours at the most...but still, I was hoping to keep it under 70 for the first week. It's day 4 now in the primary.

Don't think this will hurt the beer too much, but kinda sucks anyway. The smell from the airlock is still great, no rotten eggs!

I will kick it up to low 70s for the second week of the fermentation, with a few gentle swirls to kick the yeast back in to finish the job.

 

[Fireplacefish]

As far as the honey, I like to add mine during fermentation. I have found that boiling honey will take out almost all of the flavor. I add mine toward the end of fermentation and the airlock activity will go crazy for a few more days and will thin out the beer a little. I could be wrong but I don't think you will get any honey flavor in the brew if you boil it.

 

[Unibrow]

Thanks Fire

I ended up not using any honey in this wit recipe.

But I put some honey in another beer's secondary carboy and the airlock went crazy for the next couple days. I used about 4 TBS of honey (diluted in 2 cups of boiling water for 5 minutes) and racked a BB Red Ale over that. I will keep in the secondary for 10 days and bottle if the airlock is done makin' bubbles.

 

[Unibrow]

Took a SG reading of the PM wit after 8 days in the primary - I'm at 1.013

Also, the sample I pulled tasted perfect! Right on spot for the Hoegaarden style I was going for. The color is VERY light, almost yellow. I'll be bottling next weekend, so it will stay in the primary for just over 2 weeks. Probably 15 or 16 days depending on when I get the time to bottle. I'll send an update after I bottle, but it looks like my first PM experience will be a success if everything stays the way it's been going.

Home made Hoegaarden?!!?!? I love this damn hobby!

 

[Unibrow]

I bottled after 15 days in primary, the final gravity at bottling was 1.012 and the FG sample tasted pretty good.

I opened a bottle after 2 days (I know, I know...patience) just to make sure I was on the right track.... lo and behold, the first bottle was about 80% carbed, about 1 inch of head and had a very good taste. Close to Hoegaarden like I was shooting for. I will try another in 1 week and hope it gets even better.

Hoemmaade Hoegaarden is only 2 weeks away!