First Kettle Sour - Not Fermenting

[fermentinginpa]

I tried to make a Berliner Weisse (my first time brewing a sour beer) a few weeks back and am having trouble getting it to ferment. I did a kettle sour so I did the mash, dropped the temp of the wort to 90 degrees, pitched some lacto and let it sit for 48 hours. The intention was to let it sit for 36 but life got in the way. I don't have a PH meter so I don't know what my PH got down to but the wort is nice and funky. After 48 hours, I brought it up to a boil, finished brewing the beer, chilled it down and pitched a smack pack of Wyeast Kolsch Yeast. My OG was about 1.037. There was no activity in the airlock but I know that doesn't necessarily mean anything so I let it sit for a week. After a week, I took another gravity reading and it had barely moved. I was at 1.030

I assumed it was the smack pack. I was a little worried about it from the start as it was a little old and didn't swell. I went to my LHBS this past Saturday, got some fresh yeast (Wyeast Kolsch) and pitched that but still, no real activity.

Could my PH be too low? Any other ideas / suggestions to salvage the batch?

 

[Rob2010SS]

By pitching yeast in a acidic environment, you need to make sure that your yeast can handle it. I've never used that yeast so I have no idea how well it performs in an acidic environment. It'd be nice to know what the pH is as that would give an idea of how acidic your wort is.

You said that it dropped from 1.037 to 1.030 though. That's activity. Yes it's slow, but it's activity so I don't think you need to salvage anything.

How hot was your mash?
Did you aerate the wort before pitching? If so, how?
Did you do a yeast starter? How big?
How big of a batch did you do (gallons)?

These are all things that would affect your fermentability of the wort. I don't think you're batch is in need of salvaging, I think we need to just pinpoint why you have a slow fermentation. We just need more information to help you out.

 

[cactusgarrett]

What temp are you fermenting at? If too cold, that could be a source of slow fermentation.
Doesn't sound like it'll matter in this case, but what lacto did you use? By "funky" do you mean sour or nasty smelling? If it's good (sour) funk, then you should be okay. If it was bad funk, you could have gotten something else going in there besides lacto.
Also, without taking a pH reading, there's no way to tell if you were/are too low.

 

[Azura]

Some yeasts have poor acid tolerance. Not sure about Kolsch. Wyeast German Ale 1007 is one of the best for pitching into acid. It's worked 100% of the time many times for me. I do a small starter and pitch the whole thing after 12 hours on the stirplate.

 

[xico]

Some kettle sours can smell a little pukey to me depending on the strain of bacteria. Anything that smells like sewage however means you may have something else growing in there. What lacto culture did you use?

I agree with the previous posters that it's hard to give sound advice without more to go on.. 90F is in that area where some nasties can grow as well, especially if there is a decent exchange of airflow under the say a kettle lid. 36 hours even can be an intense sour and you may have dropped the pH out of the comfort zone of your yeast. It doesn't mean it won't ferment but it may continue slowly to finish.

This is a process of trial and error, I've over soured several batches before I learned that warm flat beer muddles the perception of sourness a lot, especially with all the unfermented sugar. For tasting, I recommend chilling an ounce or two in the fridge and evaluating. I usually only need abot 12 to 18 hours from bacterial pitch before it's time to move on to the next phase but this will be dependent on knowing your cultures.

 

[thedon986]

US-05 is a safe bet to toss in and see if it restarts. I always use that in my sours.

 

[fermentinginpa]

By pitching yeast in a acidic environment, you need to make sure that your yeast can handle it. I've never used that yeast so I have no idea how well it performs in an acidic environment. It'd be nice to know what the pH is as that would give an idea of how acidic your wort is.

You said that it dropped from 1.037 to 1.030 though. That's activity. Yes it's slow, but it's activity so I don't think you need to salvage anything.

How hot was your mash?
Did you aerate the wort before pitching? If so, how?
Did you do a yeast starter? How big?
How big of a batch did you do (gallons)?

These are all things that would affect your fermentability of the wort. I don't think you're batch is in need of salvaging, I think we need to just pinpoint why you have a slow fermentation. We just need more information to help you out.

I have never used it either but it was recommended on the Sour Beer Blog with his Berliner Weisse recipe so I am assuming the yeast can handle it.

I mashed at 130 for 15 minutes, then took it to 155 for 60 minutes.

I aerated the old fashioned way, just shook it up really well

I did not do a yeast starter, just a direct pitch from a smack pack (both times)

It is a 5 gallon batch

 

[fermentinginpa]

What temp are you fermenting at? If too cold, that could be a source of slow fermentation.
Doesn't sound like it'll matter in this case, but what lacto did you use? By "funky" do you mean sour or nasty smelling? If it's good (sour) funk, then you should be okay. If it was bad funk, you could have gotten something else going in there besides lacto.
Also, without taking a pH reading, there's no way to tell if you were/are too low.

It's about 65 degrees in my basement which I believe is in the range of what that Kolsch yeast can perform at.

For the Lacto, it was Wyeast 5335

Yes, by funky I mean sour. I think that part of it did well. Yeah, I know I am flying a bit blind without a PH meter. The recipe from the Sour Beer Blog said to let it sit at 90 degrees for 36 hours so that is what I targeted.

 

[xico]

I don't know the strain at all. Looks like it produces more than just one compound like lactic acid. 1.037 was the OG at yeast pitch or mash completion before bacterial addition?

if it produces alcohol then it may have done some of that gravity drop. lac. brevis i've found can drop it a bit.

a swish sampling might be worthwhile in a bit, you can check the gravity and see if it's dropped and you can taste it to see how sour it is chilled.

either that or hydrate a pack of us-05. i don't think you could go wrong with either choice.

 

[pdxal]

Somebody has to ask if you are measuring gravity with a hydrometer or refractometer.
Wy1007 should do fine, but it has performed fairly slowly for me in non-soured wort and it is known as an acid tolerant yeast.

 

[fermentinginpa]

I use a refractometer before adding yeast but then any reading I do after I pitch I use my hydrometer

 

[Azura]

Somebody has to ask if you are measuring gravity with a hydrometer or refractometer.
Wy1007 should do fine, but it has performed fairly slowly for me in non-soured wort and it is known as an acid tolerant yeast.

The other positive thing about 1007 is the way it enhances the character of the malt flavor and aroma. S-05 is a popular choice. It works, but it tends to leave sour beers with very little malt character.