First decoction

[marc1138]

So, I did my first decoction back in December which was Edwort's hefeweizen recipe except I subbed 1 lb of the pilsner for a pound of munich. Which I've done in the past several times. I ended up doing 2 decoctions to get to my sac temp (152* F) after a 20 min rest at 130* or so. It was fermented at 68* F with an 800ml starter of wlp300.

Here's where it gets interesting... Its been in the keg, untouched, since the first week of January but it hasn't lost any of its distinct yeast flavor, is still cloudy as heck and tastes closer to an imported German hefe than any hefeweizen I've ever brewed. And I've probably brewed 40 or so batches of hefe easily.

Im not sure if it was the decoction or the fact that I've only been drinking one or 2 beers a week for the past few months or even the time in the keg but it is almost dead nuts flavor-wise to a Franziskaner.

Just thought I'd share for anyone who loves a good hefeweizen. Cheers!

 

[Vale71]

Welcome to the "Addicted to Decoction" club. There's no going back now...

 

[Edward's Beer Cellar]

Welcome to the "Addicted to Decoction" club. There's no going back now...

Where does said club meet?

I too fell into the trap of a of triple decoction with a dunkles bock. During the brew, I swore I would not do this again. But then this tasty, malty beer showed up a few weeks later in my 'fridge and I am feeling the urge to repeat.

 

[bobeer]

I've always wanted to do a decoction mash but with 2 little kids my brew days aren't long enough. It's hard enough to get a brew in the way it is! However, the next brew day I get left alone for I'm going to try and do a decoction. I've been wanting to try it ever since I saw the BrewingTV episode about it back in the day.

With that said, how much extra time would you said a double decoction adds to a brew day?

 

[marc1138]

The whole thing only added about 30 to 40 min to my brew day. I boiled the first decoction for 10 min and the second for 5 min just to get to my rest temp and then just mashed as usual. Mine started to boil pretty quick and I had to babysit and keep stirring to prevent scorching.

I'm definitely going to give it another shot in the near future. Maybe with a different style that I've done in the past like a marzen, just to compare it. However, I think it's going to be standard for my hefes from now on.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I'd like to try a decoction but I biab; not sure how much to pull, how precise to be, and the step mash profile that will result when I boil it and add back in. Tried brewing several hefes with both single infusion and step mashing but still haven't produced anything comparable to the great examples I enjoyed while living in Stuttgart.

 

[bobeer]

I'd like to try a decoction but I biab; not sure how much to pull, how precise to be, and the step mash profile that will result when I boil it and add back in. Tried brewing several hefes with both single infusion and step mashing but still haven't produced anything comparable to the great examples I enjoyed while living in Stuttgart.

I've never done a decoction but I used to biab for a long time. I'd think you'd pull the same amount of thick mash as if you were using a traditional mlt. 1 qt of thick mash per lb of grain is the ratio I think. So that would be 4 cups per lb of grist.
Keeping the mash temp was always my issue with biab but I think you'd just add enough of the boiled thick mash back until you reached the next rest. Just add it real slow while mixing it so you don't jump past the next rest.
I think it's doable as long as you watch your p's and q's!

 

[cactusgarrett]

I'd like to try a decoction but I biab; not sure how much to pull, how precise to be, and the step mash profile that will result when I boil it and add back in.

BIAB for a decoction shouldn't matter, since the only thing different is a higher water:grain ratio. It actually might be a better situation - more wort for enzymes to go into solution. Beersmith is actually pretty good about calculating decoction volumes, but considering the larger water:grain ratio, you'd probably have to pull more grain to ensure you hit your alpha rest temp.

I've found that it doesn't add much time, either, to do one decoction step. On a normal grist, i pull around 8 qts of thick mash. Depending on the beer, boil times vary: light -> less boil time (10-15min). So, you infuse for your beta, then after about 10min (to get the enzymes into solution) you pull the decoction and boil for 10 min while the beta rest is going on. By the time you're done boiling, your designated beta rest is done (30-45 min). Doesn't add really any time since it's happening concurrently. One trick is to pull more than suggested, for when you add it back to the main mash, you have some left over to add if you come in low (temp).

I used to fret over it, and always say "meh, i'll use melanoidin instead', but there really is no substitute for a decoction (regarding flavor), in my opinion. I do it on all my traditional German brews now (hefe, festbier, doppelbock, etc.) Once you do it a few times, it totally gets easier. A quart-sized perforated ladle is key, too. Whatever makes the process easier!

 

[cactusgarrett]

Also, no matter how thick a mash, i found having a good/thick tri-clad bottom on your kettle to dissipate heat evenly is a life saver.

 

[Jayjay1976]

BIAB for a decoction shouldn't matter, since the only thing different is a higher water:grain ratio. It actually might be a better situation - more wort for enzymes to go into solution. Beersmith is actually pretty good about calculating decoction volumes, but considering the larger water:grain ratio, you'd probably have to pull more grain to ensure you hit your alpha rest temp.

I've found that it doesn't add much time, either, to do one decoction step. On a normal grist, i pull around 8 qts of thick mash. Depending on the beer, boil times vary: light -> less boil time (10-15min). So, you infuse for your beta, then after about 10min (to get the enzymes into solution) you pull the decoction and boil for 10 min while the beta rest is going on. By the time you're done boiling, your designated beta rest is done (30-45 min). Doesn't add really any time since it's happening concurrently. One trick is to pull more than suggested, for when you add it back to the main mash, you have some left over to add if you come in low (temp).

I used to fret over it, and always say "meh, i'll use melanoidin instead', but there really is no substitute for a decoction (regarding flavor), in my opinion. I do it on all my traditional German brews now (hefe, festbier, doppelbock, etc.) Once you do it a few times, it totally gets easier. A quart-sized perforated ladle is key, too. Whatever makes the process easier!

I start with 8.5 gallons of water; the full volume would be about 9.5 gallons of mash so is it sufficient to pull ~3 gallons and boil that? I have several other stock pots that could handle this. Since I brew with an insulated electric kettle I can hold the mash at a constant temp while boiling the decoction, if I understand properly the decoction could speed my time to reach the next rest temperature considerably and actually save time.

 

[cactusgarrett]

Depends on your grist. You likely wouldn't be able to pull 3 gallons of thick wort, but you might need to pull it thinner to ensure you'd hit your next step, if you plan on doing one. If you're not planning on using the deocoction to hit the next rest step, then it's a slam dunk: just boil and add back to mashout or run off.

As an example, i just did a dark Czech lager that had 10.5 lbs of grain. Mashed around 1.7 qt/lb, but that should only matter towards how easy it was to step up the temp adding the decoction back in. I was targeting to pull 11 qts of thick mash (based on a process suggestion), but there was grain enough to only get, at best, 8 qts. Beersmith suggested pulling 7 qts.

 

[JimRausch]

I do a one-step decoction with all my altbiers and lagers(viennas, marzens, and bocks). I start with a beta rest at 145. After 10 minutes, I take 3 qt. of thick mash and heat that separately on a campstove next to my BK. I 1st heat it up to 155 and hold it there for 10 minutes, then boil for another 10 before adding back to main mash. For my system, the 3qts. added back raises my main mash 10 degrees. I hold the alpha rest for 20 minutes before vorlauf and mash out. Adds between 10-20 minutes to my total mash time.