First Brew... Not digging the aftertaste

[g-love]

So.... My first brew was a Nut Brown Ale from NB. I have to say I really enjoyed the taste at bottling and then it was even better a week later with some carbonation. I was super excited...

Now, 3 weeks later, my beer has a bitey taste, and a harsh aftertaste... It isn't getting better, it's getting worse. I think part of it is that it's slightly overcarbed for my liking. I used 4 oz. of priming sugar, but I think I should have gone with 2.5 - 3 oz. However, there is something else going on with this one.

I just found this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/attention-all-extract-brewers-harsh-bitterness-aftertaste-128731/

So..... I think I am going to send a water sample in to Ward Labs and see what it turns up. I know that my water is hard and high in minerals, but I don't know exact numbers. I will be really interested to see what the results are. I hope the other 2 beers I have kegged don't have this same taste....

Anyway, I am probably only going to do 1 or 2 more extract batches before going AG, so I guess it'll be nice to know what the breakout of my water is for that too. I will use distilled for my next batch or two, which will hopefully help the cause.

 

[WrongCoastBrewery]

Get a Brita pitcher or a PUR filter for your faucet and try out some of those extract batches using that. I have decent water where I live and still use the PUR faucet filter.

 

[h22lude]

Get a Brita pitcher or a PUR filter for your faucet and try out some of those extract batches using that. I have decent water where I live and still use the PUR faucet filter.

I agree. My town water is pretty good but I still use a filter or I buy jugs of water. Sometimes I find it easier to buy 6 1 gallon jugs. It is already measured for you.

 

[g-love]

I hear you guys. I think I am going to hit Sams and buy some distilled or RO water. I am not sure those water filters (PUR/Brita) do anything to pull out the minerals that would cause the harsh flavors. I know they work for chlorine, but I am on a well so I don't think that's the issue.

Either way, I sent my water sample to Ward labs today. It's worth the $16 to see what my water is made of.

 

[ongreystreet]

I agree. My town water is pretty good but I still use a filter or I buy jugs of water. Sometimes I find it easier to buy 6 1 gallon jugs. It is already measured for you.

I also like the jugs for measurement, I also find other uses for them while brewing, such as mixing up some extra sanitizer just to be ready in a pinch.

 

[h22lude]

I also like the jugs for measurement, I also find other uses for them while brewing, such as mixing up some extra sanitizer just to be ready in a pinch.

Exactly. If you do a partial boil and need 2 gallons, you just pour 2 jugs into the kettle. You now have jugs to put sanitizer in for later use. I also use the jugged water to proof yeast if using dry yeast since the temp should be correct and I know it is clean water.

 

[mixedbrewer]

I dont know if distilled water is the best for brewing... I dont remember where I saw it but I am sure there is something about this here somewhere.

 

[g-love]

I like the idea of yeast proofing in the jugs. I've been using liquid yeast, but it's too damn expensive. I am going to start using dry when I can.....

 

[jmo88]

When bottle carbing, you need to be really sure the batch is completely done fermenting. Try opening a bottle, pouring it in a glass and letting the carbonation release over a few hours. Then take a gravity reading. Compare this to when you bottled it. That harsh aftertaste and high carbonation should tell you a couple things and the gravity reading should help answer 'why'. Either the beer wasn't fully attenuated, you used too much priming sugar, or you introduced a foreign bacteria. This last one is more common in bottling than you might think and this might be your case, especially if it is getting worse. Taking a gravity reading now should help you figure out what happened.

 

[h22lude]

I dont know if distilled water is the best for brewing... I dont remember where I saw it but I am sure there is something about this here somewhere.

For extract it is ok. Any grain brewing it isn't recommended as you need minerals in the water.

 

[jonmohno]

I dont know if distilled water is the best for brewing... I dont remember where I saw it but I am sure there is something about this here somewhere.

I looked into this a while ago and distilled water is only ok for extract brewing.

 

[g-love]

I looked into this a while ago and distilled water is only ok for extract brewing.

This is true. The reason that it's okay to use distilled with extract is because all of the necessary minerals are retained when the extract is made. When you add water to extract you are doing it to dilute it and bring the specific gravity back to where it should be in order to make the beer you are aiming for.

Water chemistry matters more for AG brewers because they are starting from scratch. The minerals in the water have a big effect on the mashing process, which in turn effects fermentation and taste of beer.

Thanks for everyones input. I guess I was throwing my situation out there in case other people were having the same issue. My beer isn't undrinkable, but I am just not happy with it. Props to the people who had good input on the thread I linked earlier. I will post again after I see what the makeup of my water is, and we'll see if that could be part of my issue.

 

[certaut]

ro and water salts works for me

 

[jonmohno]

where do u get water salts? and can u use trace mineral drops? are these good also?
I would think its ok to top off an all grain with distilled,in fact i think it is a good idea because this is the most sterile water there is.Its only during the mash that helps with the minerals? unless it helps yeast?If its a nutrient for yeast im not aware?

 

[buckeyebrewer]

I have used a whole house water filter from Home Depot for years. Buy a couple of fittings to hook up to a garden hose and you have all the bottled water you could ever ask for. It's cheap ...the whole house filter housing is 18 bucks....pack of filters is 10 bucks.....fittings are 5 bucks for a set of male and female. The big bottles of water are 6 dollars where I live...do the math and a few brews pays for the whole setup.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
http://www.homedepot.com/Kitchen-Wa...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

 

[jmo88]

The evolution of this thread bothers me. The OP brews his first batch and says it is overcarbonated and the taste is harsh and bitey after a few weeks in the bottle. The OP mentions that he read a thread about water. Everyone jumps on the issue of water as a solution. The OP has no idea about what could be wrong since he has never brewed before. No offense to anyone, but water really shouldn't be the first place to look in order to solve a problem like this.

 

[jonmohno]

He had stated something else was going on. Like besides the carbonation.Half his statement was about water.This clearly is not about carbonation.read it. or did i miss something

 

[jmo88]

He had stated something else was going on. Like besides the carbonation.Half his statement was about water.This clearly is not about carbonation.read it. or did i miss something

Right, I get the whole water for future AG thing. But the OP believes this flavor is from his water profile.

I hear you guys. I think I am going to hit Sams and buy some distilled or RO water. I am not sure those water filters (PUR/Brita) do anything to pull out the minerals that would cause the harsh flavors. I know they work for chlorine, but I am on a well so I don't think that's the issue.

 

[davesrose]

This is true. The reason that it's okay to use distilled with extract is because all of the necessary minerals are retained when the extract is made.

As someone who is starting to work more on their water chemistry, I'm wondering how that is. IMO, it's best to tailor your water to what kind of style you're shooting for (no matter all grain or extract). The proportion of minerals should be more about what kind of style you're brewing then what method. The mineral content is much different with a stout then a pilsner: and that's true whether it's extract vs all grain.

As for the rest of the thread....it's best just to post the results of your water report when you get it...it'll be more revealing about what kind of style your water is optimal for.

 

[h22lude]

The evolution of this thread bothers me. The OP brews his first batch and says it is overcarbonated and the taste is harsh and bitey after a few weeks in the bottle. The OP mentions that he read a thread about water. Everyone jumps on the issue of water as a solution. The OP has no idea about what could be wrong since he has never brewed before. No offense to anyone, but water really shouldn't be the first place to look in order to solve a problem like this.

Well the reason we jump on water as the solution is because he also posted a link regarding extract brewing and high mineral water making a bitter after taste.

If he has high minerals in his tap water and he uses extract then the total minerals might have been too high. The solution...distilled water.

If that doesn't work, then he has another problem. When you are trying to problem solve, you need to eliminate the easiest solutions first. Using distilled water might be the easiest thing to test for. If it changes the after taste then he knows it was the water. If it is still bitter, then he knows it isn't the water and he has another problem to look into.

 

[jmo88]

When you are trying to problem solve, you need to eliminate the easiest solutions first. Using distilled water might be the easiest thing to test for. If it changes the after taste then he knows it was the water. If it is still bitter, then he knows it isn't the water and he has another problem to look into.

Right. But your suggestion of the easiest solution requires brewing another batch of beer which could present other variables when comparing it to the present batch. The easiest solution would be to solve what is the bitey unpleasant aftertaste in his current beer. If it is overcarbonated it could have unwanted bacteria or carbonic acid causing the unwanted flavor. The answer is simple, decarbonate the beer and compare the gravity reading to the gravity at bottling. That's the easiest thing to test for. Plus he said it's getting worse.

 

[g-love]

As someone who is starting to work more on their water chemistry, I'm wondering how that is. IMO, it's best to tailor your water to what kind of style you're shooting for (no matter all grain or extract). The proportion of minerals should be more about what kind of style you're brewing then what method. The mineral content is much different with a stout then a pilsner: and that's true whether it's extract vs all grain.

As for the rest of the thread....it's best just to post the results of your water report when you get it...it'll be more revealing about what kind of style your water is optimal for.

I think the thing with this is that you can't tailor your water exactly when using extract because you don't know what minerals were in the water that made the extract, so you don't know what you need to change to get your profile where you want it. I am by no means an expert at this, but that is my understanding of the situation.

 

[g-love]

The evolution of this thread bothers me. The OP brews his first batch and says it is overcarbonated and the taste is harsh and bitey after a few weeks in the bottle. The OP mentions that he read a thread about water. Everyone jumps on the issue of water as a solution. The OP has no idea about what could be wrong since he has never brewed before. No offense to anyone, but water really shouldn't be the first place to look in order to solve a problem like this.

JMO, I see what you mean here. The main point to my original post was the harsh/ bitey taste and aftertaste. I mentioned carbonation because the harshness in my beer reminds me of the way crappy domestic brew feels in my mouth.... It's almost an acidic feeling, which I think is due to the high level of carobonation. Correct me if I'm wrong, as I recognize I still have a lot to learn.

So that was one piece of the harsh taste to me.

The second piece was the information I found in the thread I linked in my original post. I know that I have high mineral content (I don't know how high) and I am brewing extract, so I was wondering if my issue might be the same as the issue in that link.

I know that these are two separate issues, but I am thinking that put together, maybe they are the cause of my bitter aftertaste. As far as why it's getting worse, I don't know, but people in the linked thread seemed to be having the same issue.

I like your idea of decarbing one and checking the gravity. I'll do that tomorrow and report back. One question about your post though, what causes carbonic acid?

 

[ToastedPenguin]

I have used a whole house water filter from Home Depot for years. Buy a couple of fittings to hook up to a garden hose and you have all the bottled water you could ever ask for. It's cheap ...the whole house filter housing is 18 bucks....pack of filters is 10 bucks.....fittings are 5 bucks for a set of male and female. The big bottles of water are 6 dollars where I live...do the math and a few brews pays for the whole setup.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
http://www.homedepot.com/Kitchen-Wa...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Like the idea for extract brewing, do you know what the filters are spec'd for removing?

 

[jmo88]

what causes carbonic acid?

Carbonation. High enough levels of carbonation can cause you to perceive carbonic acid, which is harsh and bitey.

Though this is a possibility, unwanted bacteria introduced at bottling that is continuing to eat sugars that the yeast didn't consume is more likely to produce this flavor and cause higher levels of carbonation. Combine that with the fact that this is your first beer, I'd check that first. Improper sanitation can cause everything you had mentioned.

The bottling process is very difficult to champion. Even big breweries have troubles with contamination and oxidation when bottling.

 

[Ricand]

I use nothing but RO water and add the appropriate mineral salts for the type of beer I'm brewing. To calculate the amount of salts to add I use this LIQUOR SALT CALCULATOR I eventually bought my own RO system, but you can buy RO water for 49 cents a gallon.

 

[h22lude]

Right. But your suggestion of the easiest solution requires brewing another batch of beer which could present other variables when comparing it to the present batch. The easiest solution would be to solve what is the bitey unpleasant aftertaste in his current beer. If it is overcarbonated it could have unwanted bacteria or carbonic acid causing the unwanted flavor. The answer is simple, decarbonate the beer and compare the gravity reading to the gravity at bottling. That's the easiest thing to test for. Plus he said it's getting worse.

I totally agree. If it is due to contamination at bottling or over-carbonating, taking a gravity reading now will be very easy. If that is not the case, there are still other variables that could have went wrong but it would be hard to find those variables out now without brewing another batch and eliminating some of those variables (i.e. using different water).

 

[sensibull]

For what it's worth (precisely one data point in a large number of variables) I recently experienced a harsh (possibly "bitey") aftertaste in several of my batches after switching to well water with a high iron content. Switched back to spring water and all is well.

 

[g-love]

Ok guys, here is where we stand. I opened a beer this morning and let it sit out for most of the day until it was completey uncarbed. I tasted it, and it tasted good (other than the fact it sat open on the counter all day), just like it did one week after bottling. I didn't have any harsh flavors and tasted just like a brown ale should.

I checked the gravity and it was right were it was when I bottled it at 1.012, maybe 1.011

What does this info tell me?

 

[jmo88]

Ok guys, here is where we stand. I opened a beer this morning and let it sit out for most of the day until it was completey uncarbed. I tasted it, and it tasted good (other than the fact it sat open on the counter all day), just like it did one week after bottling. I didn't have any harsh flavors and tasted just like a brown ale should.

I checked the gravity and it was right were it was when I bottled it at 1.012, maybe 1.011

What does this info tell me?

I think it should tell you that you don't like this particular beer with that level of carbonation. This is partly why some beer styles have a recommended level of carbonation. An English brown wouldn't taste very good carbed to Belgian levels. Carbonation makes a HUGE impact on your perception of the beer.

The good news is you don't have an infection. It's also good that you don't have to attribute all of this to water. If you didn't do this decarbing gravity test, then made another beer and adjusted your water but made that beer with correct levels of carbonation, you would've believed that the water was the difference. Clearly it isn't.

 

[g-love]

Fair enough. Thanks for your help on this one JMO and everyone else who chimed in. I learned something here!

With this beer I used 4oz of priming sugar rather than the blanket recommendation of 5 oz. because I wanted it less carbed. Clearly, I didn't reduce the amount by enough. If I don't like the carbonation at this level, would 2 oz of priming sugar be a better bet? I guess this is just something I'm going to have to play with and see.

I have 2 other brews sitting in kegs naturally carbing with 1/3 cup of priming sugar. Hopefully they aren't f'd up too. One is a dry stout and one is a pumpkin ale for my SWMBO....

 

[benharper13]

Did special sauce help you with this brew?

 

[g-love]

Did special sauce help you with this brew?

LMAO... Unfortunately not. They were busy that day, but maybe we can get together and brew sometime. We'll invite Jack Johnson over and we'll all hang out.