First BIAB Brew today!

[Blackmuse]

Doing my first BIAB brew today! I went with the double crush - didn't look like I needed it though. It seems my LHBS does a pretty fine crush as it is... This stuff looks like power

No worries though. I'm doing this with a buddy during our annual Homebrew fest. We got a bunch of different beers for people to try and will be doing this brew right outside during the festivities... Hopefully we're not too distracted! Wish us luck! I'll be sure to let you know how it goes!

Here's the recipe using Brewer's Friend:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebr...ee-shutts-to-the-wind-cilantro-lime-wit-biab-

It's a bit eccentric. It's a "wit" beer for my wife (she loves Cilantro)... I went with a clean yeast as the wits she likes are Blue Moon and Shocktop - not really wit beers at all. So just a heads up. If it turns out decent I might make a shandy out of it with Limeaide... mmmm.

 

[TangoHotel]

Doing my first BIAB brew today! I went with the double crush - didn't look like I needed it though. It seems my LHBS does a pretty fine crush as it is... This stuff looks like power

No worries though. I'm doing this with a buddy during our annual Homebrew fest. We got a bunch of different beers for people to try and will be doing this brew right outside during the festivities... Hopefully we're not too distracted! Wish us luck! I'll be sure to let you know how it goes!

Here's the recipe using Brewer's Friend:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/63011/three-shutts-to-the-wind-cilantro-lime-wit-biab-

It's a bit eccentric. It's a "wit" beer for my wife (she loves Cilantro)... I went with a clean yeast as the wits she likes are Blue Moon and Shocktop - not really wit beers at all. So just a heads up. If it turns out decent I might make a shandy out of it with Limeaide... mmmm.

Add an avocado and it's a guacamole wit.

Good luck! Brew on!

 

[Blackmuse]

haha!
I'm actually a little worried... With the thermometer in the grains and the heat on it sat and didn't climb back up for a while but then I stirred the grains and the mash jumped up to 166!
Then I put the therm past the bag and straight into the water and the temp hit 180!
I suppose I am screwed? May it have just turned into a partial mash?

 

[wilserbrewer]

How long were you at lower temps?
Perhaps conversion occurred before you overheated.
Some use the rule, always stir when the heat is on!

 

[Blackmuse]

About 1/2 an hour...

I will definitely stir the whole time next time!

 

[Blackmuse]

I was thinking of taking a pre gravity reading and if I was off I'd add some honey as a late addition... Will that work?

 

[wilserbrewer]

While honey will boost gravity, honey is also highly fermentable and will further dry or thin the beer...sometimes best to let it be and not muddle.

You just may have a tasty lower abv session ale...sometimes RDWHAHB is best.

 

[servarevitas]

Please let us know how this turns out... that recipe looks amazing!

:rockin:

 

[Blackmuse]

While honey will boost gravity, honey is also highly fermentables and will further dry or thin the beer...sometimes best to let it be and not muddle.

You just may have a fast lower abv session ale...sometimes RDWHAHB is best.

This is exactly what my buddy kept saying "relax" I think it will be fine. He brews regularly (always extract) and has never read any of the books so he doesn't know the RDWHAHB term but he brews with this same mindset.

As it was, we ending up hitting 2 points high on the OG and had a slightly larger batch size than antipated (couldn't boil it all off even with an extended boil) so things panned out.

See below for more of an update.

Thanks for the help and reassurance.

 

[Blackmuse]

Okay folks, I lost internet on brew day so I'm back to fill you in on what went down.

Though the temperature apparently hit 180 degrees in the pot while mashing, I had been about 30 - 40 minutes into the mash so I still ended up with a bit of sugar... My buddy and I took a deep breath and just let things cool down and continue as planned. We did a helluva squeeze on the grain bag and even did a mini-sparge (2 quarts) since I wanted to top back up to a 4 gallon boil. Hit a pre-boil gravity of 1.040 - .004 points higher than anticipated.

So we rocked a boil and I added my .5 US Goldings hops after 30 minutes. However, by the time we hit the 60 minute mark I still had over 3.5 gallons in the pot so we kept it boiling (my IBUs were at the low end of the recipe so I figured it wouldn't hurt). Anyway, results:

3.25 collected in fermentor (a quart more than recipe called for)
OG - 1.050 (two points higher than Target OG - even with extra quart!)
IBUs - based on my corrections in brewer's friend - 17.48 (fine by me)
Brew House efficiency = 79%

So, RDWHAHB!

I'll keep you all posted on the final product!

 

[Blackmuse]

Oh, my one BIG question:

Should I keep temp probe in the actual mash in the bag or just underneath it in the water?

I'd hate to have the same issue arise again.

 

[TangoHotel]

I put mine in the bag. I take my spoon and stir like crazy, then I'll put the probe in the middle and sizes nd take 3 or 4 readings. If it's pretty consistent I will cover it, reapply blankets and let it sit for 10-15 minutes before I try again. If it goes below my temp, ill turn the burner on for a minute or two and stir like mad. I'll take temp readings wile stirring and aim for a degree under my target. It usually climbs up a degree or two after I turn the heat off anyway.

 

[Blackmuse]

Thanks TangoHotel that sounds like a good idea. I'll try it next batch.

 

[TangoHotel]

Thanks TangoHotel that sounds like a good idea. I'll try it next batch.

No problem. Glad I could help! Brew on!

 

[wilserbrewer]

Rather than trying to constantly monitor and adjust your temperature, I would suggest working toward getting your strike water at the proper temp, and then once mashing at the right temperature, wrapping the kettle in a few blankets.

If you do need to add a little heat, lowest flame possible and stir...no more 180 degree mashes...ouch!
I think since you were at proper mashing temps for the first half hour you had conversion and all was well with your brew!

Rather than targeting a very specific temperature, I like to fix on a range w/ BIAB. Say if your target is 152, make 153 - 154 your goal and anticipate losing 4 degrees during the hour mash, resulting in an average mash temp of 152. With a little experience it is not that difficult to hone in on a proper mash temp.
Cheeers!

 

[Blackmuse]

Update:
So I racked to the secondary today - all active fermentation had ceased - there had been a very small krausen on this thing... I took a gravity reading and it was at 1.020! This had been the first time I had a fermentation without any bubbles in the airlock but I didn't sweat it. I could tell activity was happening since there was a krausen built up though small. But 1.020?

So, my assumption is: I created a whole lot of unfermentables being at such a high temp during the mash. I'm probably stuck with a pretty sweet, low gravity beer huh?

Should I just settle with what I have?

Should I pitch another packet of dry yeast and hope that maybe it hadn't finished out or had a poor fermentation?

Any advice at this point would be great! I'm really hoping to save this thing!

 

[JDGator]

Update:
So I racked to the secondary today - all active fermentation had ceased - there had been a very small krausen on this thing... I took a gravity reading and it was at 1.020! This had been the first time I had a fermentation without any bubbles in the airlock but I didn't sweat it. I could tell activity was happening since there was a krausen built up though small. But 1.020?

So, my assumption is: I created a whole lot of unfermentables being at such a high temp during the mash. I'm probably stuck with a pretty sweet, low gravity beer huh?

Should I just settle with what I have?

Should I pitch another packet of dry yeast and hope that maybe it hadn't finished out or had a poor fermentation?

Any advice at this point would be great! I'm really hoping to save this thing!

Your mash was too hot, so your FG is higher then to be expected. did the same thing with my first BIAB. i was over 170F and i never got below 1.030 and OG was 1.05 something. lesson learned.

I found that if i mashed in 8F more then my strike temp i could easily hold my mash temp at the required temp for 90minutes with only firing the burner up once at the most.

I played with this batch. i tried adding Amylase a few times and pitched a few packs of yeast. didn't help. i would leave it alone.

 

[Blackmuse]

Your mash was too hot, so your FG is higher then to be expected. did the same thing with my first BIAB. i was over 170F and i never got below 1.030 and OG was 1.05 something. lesson learned.

I found that if i mashed in 8F more then my strike temp i could easily hold my mash temp at the required temp for 90minutes with only firing the burner up once at the most.

I played with this batch. i tried adding Amylase a few times and pitched a few packs of yeast. didn't help. i would leave it alone.

Thanks for confirming this JD. Lesson learned I guess. I feel a little better knowing that I'm not alone! I guess I'll just let it play out. Thanks again.

What did you think of the beer overall? Too sweet? Drinkable?

 

[JDGator]

Thanks for confirming this JD. Lesson learned I guess. I feel a little better knowing that I'm not alone! I guess I'll just let it play out. Thanks again.

What did you think of the beer overall? Too sweet? Drinkable?

i think my ABV was around 3-3.5%. had a strong yeast flavor since i tossed so much in(3 or 4 packs) and was rather sweet. i really didn't enjoy it at all. i had it kegged for 2 weeks and decided to toss it and make room for a beer i would drink. it was a Caribou Slobber.

 

[ChrisL_]

You can add me to the "screwed up my first batch by mashing way to high" group. As you have learned, mashing high will leave you with unfermentable sugars and a sweet beer. There is an option of using Alpha Amylase Enzyme. A few notes about this:
1. Too much of this can dry your beer right out.
2. It is worth doing IF you beer is currently not drinkable in your opinion.
3. It works by putting a measured amount in your fermenter and it will break down the long chain sugars and make them fermentable.
4. It is fast, I put some in my first messed up batch (was stuck at 1.040 and totally not drinkable) and it was fermenting again in less then 2 hours.
Here is what I posted in the Punkin Ale thread at the time.

++++
So as far as the AA goes, I was stuck at 1.040 with just over 2G of beer/wort. So based on one other report of how much AA was used, I added just a pinch over 2 teaspoons and dropped the graviy 27 points.
I don't think there is sufficient evidence yet to determine if the releationship is in fact linear, but my calculations did end up pretty close.
So if anyone reading this needs to try Alpha Amylase to deal with unfermentables during fermentation it looks like 1 teaspoon per gallon of beer will eat up about 27 gravity points.
As stated by Reno_eVNy AA could be dangerous, but if you are in the situation I was in and have an undrinable beer it is certainly worth a shot.
++++

At 1.020, your beer is sweet but may be drinkable and not worth messing with, but if that is not really drinkable to you, then you may find it worth a shot.
Let me know if you have questions and how it works out should you try it.
Chris

 

[Blackmuse]

i think my ABV was around 3-3.5%. had a strong yeast flavor since i tossed so much in(3 or 4 packs) and was rather sweet. i really didn't enjoy it at all. i had it kegged for 2 weeks and decided to toss it and make room for a beer i would drink. it was a Caribou Slobber.

Good to know... I assume mine will be a bit too sweet to drink but then again I was thinking of bottling it with some Limeaide to make a bit of a shanty. Guess I'll skip the Limeaide and it just might taste like a shanty anyway.

Only time will tell. I guess I'll have to give this recipe another go here in the near future.

 

[JDGator]

Good to know... I assume mine will be a bit too sweet to drink but then again I was thinking of bottling it with some Limeaide to make a bit of a shanty. Guess I'll skip the Limeaide and it just might taste like a shanty anyway.

Only time will tell. I guess I'll have to give this recipe another go here in the near future.

give it a try before tossing. it might be ok and you may enjoy it.

 

[Blackmuse]

give it a try before tossing. it might be ok and you may enjoy it.

OH, I'll try it for sure. I have only had one beer that I have tossed some of - I choked down most of it... lol My wife had to baby sit a fermenting beer for me and when I came back after two weeks, I found the lid popped up from a vigorous ferm. I bottled it anyway but it tasted a bit sour. Too bad too as it was a big beer.

 

[Blackmuse]

You can add me to the "screwed up my first batch by mashing way to high" group. As you have learned, mashing high will leave you with unfermentable sugars and a sweet beer. There is an option of using Alpha Amylase Enzyme. A few notes about this:
1. Too much of this can dry your beer right out.
2. It is worth doing IF you beer is currently not drinkable in your opinion.
3. It works by putting a measured amount in your fermenter and it will break down the long chain sugars and make them fermentable.
4. It is fast, I put some in my first messed up batch (was stuck at 1.040 and totally not drinkable) and it was fermenting again in less then 2 hours.
Here is what I posted in the Punkin Ale thread at the time.

++++
So as far as the AA goes, I was stuck at 1.040 with just over 2G of beer/wort. So based on one other report of how much AA was used, I added just a pinch over 2 teaspoons and dropped the graviy 27 points.
I don't think there is sufficient evidence yet to determine if the releationship is in fact linear, but my calculations did end up pretty close.
So if anyone reading this needs to try Alpha Amylase to deal with unfermentables during fermentation it looks like 1 teaspoon per gallon of beer will eat up about 27 gravity points.
As stated by Reno_eVNy AA could be dangerous, but if you are in the situation I was in and have an undrinable beer it is certainly worth a shot.
++++

At 1.020, your beer is sweet but may be drinkable and not worth messing with, but if that is not really drinkable to you, then you may find it worth a shot.
Let me know if you have questions and how it works out should you try it.
Chris

This is interesting and I'm tempted to try it. I'm honestly only 8 points or so over my target FG so it should be drinkable. However, when I pulled a sample it tasted sweet as hell. I wasn't sure I liked it. I'll pull another sample tomorrow or Friday and decide if I should give this a whirl. I assume I would need only 1/2 teaspoon or so... Maybe less? It is a 3 gallon batch and I'm shooting for an FG of 1.012-1.013...

 

[looneybomber]

The cool thing about enzymes is they keep working. For example if there were 100 sugar molecules that needed to be converted, 1 tsp will do it, just like 10tsp will. However, 10tsp will do it faster is all.

 

[ChrisL_]

This is interesting and I'm tempted to try it. I'm honestly only 8 points or so over my target FG so it should be drinkable. However, when I pulled a sample it tasted sweet as hell. I wasn't sure I liked it. I'll pull another sample tomorrow or Friday and decide if I should give this a whirl. I assume I would need only 1/2 teaspoon or so... Maybe less? It is a 3 gallon batch and I'm shooting for an FG of 1.012-1.013...

Well if 1 teaspoon eat up 27 points per gallon and you want 8 points, it is roughly 1/3 teaspoon per gallon. You have 3 gallons so 1/3 per gallon X 3 is 1 teaspoon. (You actually want a touch less then 1/3 of 27 and if you want a 7 point drop it would be even less. So I would think of going with maybe 3/4 of a teaspoon and hope for about 1.014 finish)

The cool thing about enzymes is they keep working. For example if there were 100 sugar molecules that needed to be converted, 1 tsp will do it, just like 10tsp will. However, 10tsp will do it faster is all.

I am not an expert as i used this only 1 time, but I am not sure that is true. If it was, I would think that eventually all the long chain sugar branches would eventually be eaten and the beer would dry out to 1.00. In my case, it fermented from 1.040 to 1.013. The only way that would make sense is if the yeast died out, but as I bottled the batch afterwards with no issues it indicates the yeast was not dead.

 

[looneybomber]

I am not an expert as i used this only 1 time, but I am not sure that is true. If it was, I would think that eventually all the long chain sugar branches would eventually be eaten and the beer would dry out to 1.00. In my case, it fermented from 1.040 to 1.013. The only way that would make sense is if the yeast died out, but as I bottled the batch afterwards with no issues it indicates the yeast was not dead.

Looks like I thought alpha amy, was "beano", and I knew folks had issues with what I talked about earlier - eating all the complex sugars.

Beano will breakdown all of the sugars in your beer. It's chemical name is alpha galactosidase and it is what makes light beer light. The only way to stop the reduction is to heat the beer to 135F for 30 minutes to de-nature the enzyme.

Amylase powder, on the other hand, has limits on what it can do and will stop by itself. It's just slow at fermentation temperatures.

 

[Blackmuse]

I looked into the Amalyse and read some stuff about it taking beers all the way down to 1.000! Since I wasn't WAY off and would indeed need a mere teaspoon, I decided not to risk it.

I bottled the beer on Friday. I did not take a gravity reading as I didn't want to start thinking and toying with ideas and such. I did taste a sample and it was much better than before - still a bit sweet but not crazy like before. It had a good touch of Lime to it but I couldn't taste much of the cilantro... Maybe my wife will.
It even looked a lot better than when I racked it to the secondary! It was a nice hazy yellow - similar to Allagash White.

I'll let you all know how it turned out once I crack the first bottle in about a week or two.