First Berliner Weisse Attempt

[NewFranconiaBrewing]

As I've been stuck at home due to shelter-in-place order, I decided to try my hand at a Berliner Weisse. Although I love these beers, they require quite a bit of oversight, so until recently I haven't had the time. As my LHBS is closed due to the pandemic, I've had to rely on mail order ingredients, so this is my first attempt with dry bacteria and dry yeast since I started homebrewing 9 years ago. I only make 3 gallon batches, as I'm the only one that drinks at home, and it takes me months to drink what I make.

I went with a kettle sour method, as it seemed easy and able to produce consistent results.

I don't have a beer fridge, but I have a soft cooler (BrewCooler) that I can use to maintain temps fairly effectively.

I have an old Johnson Controller for measuring fermentation temperature. I used to use it for temp regulation for my beer fridge, but the fridge was taken over by my wife for food storage a few years ago, hence the BrewCooler.

Recipe:
1 lb 12 oz Pale Malt ( 1lb Mecca Grade Pale and 12 oz MaltWerks pale, using up left overs)
1 lb 10 oz Malted Wheat

Mashed @ 151 for 30 minutes

Boil for 5 minutes to kill any bacteria or yeast from mashing

2 grams Lactic Acid to lower pH. Dropped to 4.3, which was within range according to the manufacturer.

OG 1.031, which was just above my target of 1.030.

Added Lallemand Sour Pitch - Targeted 2 grams, actually pitched 5 or 6 due to an error with the scale

Pitched Lacto @102 degrees, held temperature at 98 degrees for 9 hours. First pH reading showed pH had dropped to 3.3 and sample had a strong, delicious tropical fruit flavor. I decided to boil it right away to stop the souring process (Note: I may have misused my pH meter [oh well], so I'll measure at the end to confirm). Boiled for 10 minutes, then cooled to 64 degrees.

Added Fermentis K-97 - 6 grams of yeast total (Picked this yeast to be more authentic to the style, and John Palmer states in How to Brew that European ale yeasts are more pH tolerant than American strains). Rehydrated in previously boiled water for 30 minutes, then pitched into wort.

I had yeast activity at 12 hours and the largest krauzen I've ever seen at 24 hours, it came close to blowing out of my 5 gallon carboy despite only having 3 gallons of beer.

It's been fermenting for 3 days around 64 degrees (plus or minus 1 degree). I'll report back with final results.

 

[danimal92sport]

Excited to hear how it turns out!

I used lallemand sour pitch in a batch that i have in secondary with peaches, but I used the co-pitching method as it is a sour. The flavor as of 1 week ago was tart and delicious!

Dan

 

[RPh_Guy]

Hey welcome to HBT!

Sounds like brewing went pretty well. I hope it turns out to your liking.

You might want to take a look at co-souring next time. It's very easy, and also gives consistent results:
https://***************.com/wiki/Sour_beer

 

[NewFranconiaBrewing]

Hey welcome to HBT!

Sounds like brewing went pretty well. I hope it turns out to your liking.

You might want to take a look at co-souring next time. It's very easy, and also gives consistent results:
https://***************.com/wiki/Sour_beer

Looks like you have some experience making sours. I have some questions I'm hoping you can help answer.

How long does co-souring take? Also, what stops the souring process? Adding hops?

Do you know if you can "over pitch" lacto? I was shocked to see the pH drop so rapidly (supposed to take 24-48 hrs), but I suppose that's a side effect of using 3-4x the amount of bugs recommended by the manufacturer.

 

[RPh_Guy]

How long does co-souring take?

The beer ferments pretty much within a normal timeframe, and there's no extra pre-souring step. My sours are usually ready to package in about 3-5 days. Check out the article I linked above.

Also, what stops the souring process? Adding hops?

Souring is self-limiting, but you can stop it early by adding hops if you prefer.

Do you know if you can "over pitch" lacto?

Besides souring faster, there's no evidence that pitching high amounts of bacteria would cause any off flavors or other issues.

 

[NewFranconiaBrewing]

The beer ferments pretty much within a normal timeframe, and there's no extra pre-souring step. My sours are usually ready to package in about 3-5 days. Check out the article I linked above.


Souring is self-limiting, but you can stop it early by adding hops if you prefer.


Besides souring faster, there's no evidence that pitching high amounts of bacteria would cause any off flavors or other issues.

Thanks for all the information! I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

How long does co-souring take? Also, what stops the souring process? Adding hops?

I've used Lallemand sour-pitch several times now - it always stops right where I like it (which is quite sharply acidic, but not bracingly acidic....i.e. still drinkable!) without hops to stop souring. FWIW, I use the co-pitch method espoused by RPh. Apart from finishing quickly and being easier than kettle souring, it has the added benefit that it needs a smaller bacteria pitch - I use about 2.5 grams of sourpitch for 15 gallons (would need 6grams for kettle souring according to the instructions). As sour-pitch is $22 for 10 grams where I live, that's a substantial saving.

 

[NewFranconiaBrewing]

I've used Lallemand sour-pitch several times now - it always stops right where I like it (which is quite sharply acidic, but not bracingly acidic....i.e. still drinkable!) without hops to stop souring. FWIW, I use the co-pitch method espoused by RPh. Apart from finishing quickly and being easier than kettle souring, it has the added benefit that it needs a smaller bacteria pitch - I use about 2.5 grams of sourpitch for 15 gallons (would need 6grams for kettle souring according to the instructions). As sour-pitch is $22 for 10 grams where I live, that's a substantial saving.

Thanks for the feedback; I won't have to worry next time about the pH dropping too low. I also plan on using one packet for multiple batches, once I get a better scale!

 

[VikeMan]

As sour-pitch is $22 for 10 grams where I live, that's a substantial saving.

Yikes. Have you considered Goodbelly shots or Swanson L. plantarum pills?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Yikes. Have you considered Goodbelly shots or Swanson L. plantarum pills?

No. I'm in Australia - they're not sold here. There are similar 'probiotics', but they're expensive. A $22 packet of sourpitch does 60 gallons of beer, so it's not too bad (it's much cheaper than the hops that go into a normal batch of beer).

 

[NewFranconiaBrewing]

The yeast appear to have finished fermentation as of yesterday afternoon (little airlock activity, no visible movement in the carboy). K-97 appears to take its time as compared to other yeasts (5 days for a 1.031 OG beer seems slow to me). I'm going to let it condition for a few days and keg this weekend.

 

[RPh_Guy]

K-97 appears to take its time as compared to other yeasts (5 days for a 1.031 OG beer seems slow to me).

Pre-souring slows down fermentation.

 

[NewFranconiaBrewing]

Here’s a video from the 2012 Homebrew Con with Wyeast discussing Berliner Weisse souring experiment results. It would be interesting to see how a Berliner would turn out using a lager yeast.

 

[RPh_Guy]

@NewFranconiaBrewing
Did you check out the article I posted above?

 

[NewFranconiaBrewing]

@NewFranconiaBrewing
Did you check out the article I posted above?

I skimmed it. Lots of good information! I'll circle back around to read more in depth later.

 

[NewFranconiaBrewing]

Kegged the beer over the weekend.

Final gravity of 1.007; 78% AA. I suppose it could be due to the mash temp or amount of yeast pitched. Although slightly higher than the style range, I'm sure it will taste great.

Initial impression at room temp and flat was a good sour flavor without being overwhelming, probably closer to a hard cider level of sourness. I'll have a more complete review after its carbonated, likely end of this week.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Final gravity of 1.007; 78% AA. I suppose it could be due to the mash temp or amount of yeast pitched.

A hydrometer measures density.
Lactic acid (the product of LAB fermentation) is more dense than ethanol (the product of yeast fermentation).

I skimmed it. Lots of good information! I'll circle back around to read more in depth later.

I asked because that 2012 video is worse than useless. We've learned a lot about sour beer production since then.

 

[NewFranconiaBrewing]

A hydrometer measures density.
Lactic acid (the product of LAB fermentation) is more dense than ethanol (the product of yeast fermentation).

Is there a way to compensate for the lactic acid to get a more accurate measure? I also used a refractometer (with correction calculations) and arrived at the same FG.

I asked because that 2012 video is worse than useless. We've learned a lot about sour beer production since then.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Is there a way to compensate for the lactic acid to get a more accurate measure? I also used a refractometer (with correction calculations) and arrived at the same FG.

There's nothing wrong with the measurement. However when used with calculations it just only tells you the yeast attenuation, not the yeast+bacteria attenuation. It's still fine for calculating ABV.

There is a way to determine the amount of bacterial attenuation: Measure the TA to get an approximation of how much lactic acid is present and use that to determine how much density it's contributing to the FG. If you're interested in that, I can build a calculator to do the math.

BTW, the attenuation normally reported by calculators ("apparent attenuation") is not the true attenuation because it doesn't factor in the lower density of ethanol.

 

[NewFranconiaBrewing]

There's nothing wrong with the measurement. However when used with calculations it just only tells you the yeast attenuation, not the yeast+bacteria attenuation. It's still fine for calculating ABV.

There is a way to determine the amount of bacterial attenuation: Measure the TA to get an approximation of how much lactic acid is present and use that to determine how much density it's contributing to the FG. If you're interested in that, I can build a calculator to do the math.

BTW, the attenuation normally reported by calculators ("apparent attenuation") is not the true attenuation because it doesn't factor in the lower density of ethanol.

Thanks for offering, but I don’t have a way to measure TA.

Should I considering changing my process at all with 78% AA? I’m thinking it was pretty close to what I was shooting for, so nothing to worry about. Perhaps I’ll drop mash temp to 149-150 next time to make the wort a little more fermentable.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Should I considering changing my process at all with 78% AA?

Besides using one of the souring methods I suggest, nope.

 

[NewFranconiaBrewing]

Results are in!

Overall, very pleased with this beer. Fairly persistent head with the pour. Big sour aroma; you know this is a sour beer from the start. Taste: Moderate to moderate-high sour flavor, with hints of lemon. Great finish of bready malt from the high use of wheat malt. No noticeable yeast flavors nor off flavors.

The neighbors crushed it and asked for more. I'm pleased with the results, but I'll try for a bit more acid next time.

Next time, let the LAB go to town for 24 hours with a kettle sour. Also think this could benefit from a dry hop; I've ordered some Barbe Rouge hops for this purpose!

I'll also explore co-souring with an experimental batch the next time I brew.

I've got a kolsch up next with Huell Melon hops in the flavor and aroma additions and a small dry hop with Wai-iti.


Cheers!

 

[danimal92sport]

My co-soured beer is sublime and I’m getting ready for the next batch already!

Congrats on yours, looks great!

Dan