First batch really strong and dry. Will it mellow with age?

[Sally]

Hello all!

I started my first batch of cider 7 weeks ago. Had it in primary for 2 weeks, and in secondary for 5. I've just moved it from there into a couple of gallon jugs, because I don't think I got enough of the yeast out when I moved it to secondary (first time using an auto-siphon...). It tastes significantly less yeasty now, so I think that was a good move. However, it is really alcoholic tasting, with only a slight hint of apple. I used 100% pure organic Gravenstein juice, White Labs WLP775 English Cider Yeast and honey (as per my homebrew supply place's recipe, but I substituted corn syrup with honey). It fermented fantastically, and all seemed to go as it should. It not particularly carbonated, but I can see bubbles.

My question is, what should I do next? Bottle it and (try to!) leave it alone? Back sweeten and bottle? I don't want the alcohol content (or taste, at least) to increase any more, but I definitely want some carbonation and, mostly, I want it to taste more like cider and less like vodka! I was shooting for a pretty dry to medium-dry cider....I'm English but live in Texas, and it's getting expensive to buy either imported English ciders, or the tastier boutique (ie: not too sweet) US ciders that I prefer.

I've spent considerable time searching and reading posts here before I joined, but I apologise if I am asking questions that have already been covered!

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Sally

 

[LeBreton]

Try back sweetening with apple juice concentrate then prime, carbonate, and pasteurize as per the sticky at the top of the cider page. Leaving a dry cider in bottles will help mellow it out over time, there is no exact amount of time to age, it depends on the amount of honey you originally used.

 

[Sally]

Thanks, LeBreton! I currently have 2.5 gallons of the stuff. How much apple juice concentrate would you recommend, and could I just use more of the original Gravenstein juice? Should I then bottle it right away and just open a bottle every few days to check the carb level before I pasteurize?

Sorry for all the questions...

 

[LeBreton]

Thanks, LeBreton! I currently have 2.5 gallons of the stuff. How much apple juice concentrate would you recommend, and could I just use more of the original Gravenstein juice? Should I then bottle it right away and just open a bottle every few days to check the carb level before I pasteurize?

Sorry for all the questions...

I typically add 0.003 SG to achieve good carbonation. More juice is great, I often use concentrate too, but avoid sugar as I find it gives ciders characteristics of a low quality white wine.

 

[roadymi]

Sally........Make sure you stir well after adding whatever sweetener you choose....I also prefer using concentrate. You can do it with juice but it will take a lot more volumn and you will dilute your abv%. I like 2-3 cans concentrate / 5 gallons if batch is fermented dry.

Should I then bottle it right away and just open a bottle every few days to check the carb level before I pasteurize?

I like to fill a plastic pop bottle in the middle of my bottling process. This is your test bottle. When it becomes rock solid it is time to pasteurize.This saves you from burning through 1/2 of your batch testing carb levels.

 

[Sally]

You can do it with juice but it will take a lot more volumn and you will dilute your abv%.

I'm actually looking for an ABV reduction, so I went with the Gravenstein juice (well, pure 'apple cider', I still have a hard time using the word cider for non-alcoholic stuff!) I racked everything back into my 3 gallon glass carboy first, so I'm pretty confident all the lees had left the building before adding the fresh juice. Then I topped up the carboy with the Gravenstein. It took about 2/3 gallon. I'll be bottling it tonight after I hit the homebrew store for a capper. And I'll definitely do the plastic bottle tester trick. Currently it tastes like a harsh, slightly yeasty version of what I'd like it to finally taste of. Which is about 90% better than it was before I added the juice.

This is exciting! I'm from a long line of homebrewers (beer and wine mostly), and I've been brewing kombucha with excellent results for a while, so it was about time I started. Now I'm wondering why it took me so long, and I'll be starting another batch on Friday.

 

[roadymi]

Best of luck in your cider endeavors!!!

I'm afraid it may be difficult for you to replicate the English ciders you are so fond of with the juice available in the grocery stores. You may need to play around with different tannins and acids to be successful. It is my understanding that the apples they use to make English cider are pretty much inedible on their own. I'm not sure if crab apples grow in TX, but adding some crabapple pulp to your juice may be helpful.

 

[roadymi]

Double post sorry

 

[Sally]

Best of luck in your cider endeavors!!!

I'm afraid it may be difficult for you to replicate the English ciders you are so fond of with the juice available in the grocery stores. You may need to play around with different tannins and acids to be successful. It is my understanding that the apples they use to make English cider are pretty much inedible on their own. I'm not sure if crab apples grow in TX, but adding some crabapple pulp to your juice may be helpful.

Thanks! For now, I imagine I'll be delighted if I end up with a drinkable alternative to the store bought options (overly sweet or overly expensive). No doubt I will get into tannins and acids soon.... slippery slope, here I come!

Crab apples do grow in central TX. I shall start investigating....

 

[Sally]

Wow, those were ready to pasteurize today. Just finished!

 

[roadymi]

That is really fast, normally takes a week or three.

 

[Sally]

I was surprised, but my plastic tester bottle was solid, and when I opened it and 'reset' it, it got solid again really fast (I did this a number of times just to make sure, since it had seemed so fast). I opened one capped bottle and it had nice carbonation. Not gushing or coke level fizzy, but nicely sparkling, similar to a Strongbow, small level of foam and visible little bubbles. I guess I added a fair amount of sugar (in the form of the Gravenstein apple juice) and it got things kicking. I could probably have waited longer to get it really reeeeally fizzy, but being cautious seemed a good idea since I'm new to all this, and sparkling was my preferred level, anyway. Definitely starting batch 2 this weekend!

 

[roadymi]

You left out important info................how does it taste?

This will be my next recipe to try. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f81/graff-malty-slightly-hopped-cider-117117/

Sounds very interesting to me.

 

[Sally]

It's still a little harsh and yeasty, but I've not given up on it yet... I'll see what happens after a week or so bottled. I'm happy to just leave it for a few months, even. Even so, now, it's drinkable. Which I couldn't really say a few days ago.

I'd love to try the graff, but I'm another gluten-free brewer. I'll probably try some wheat-substitute variation on it at some point.

 

[dinnerstick]

I'm not sure if crab apples grow in TX, but adding some crabapple pulp to your juice may be helpful.

this is definitely the poor (wo/)man's method for a more 'english' style cider, if you can find a few handfuls of any medium to large crabs (about the size of a cherry, rather than a pea), they are all edible and at least all the ones i've tried are packed with tannin, and that's what you need for that west country twang in your cider. you can crush and press them if possible, or freeze, crush and steep them following a crabapple wine recipe, or else run them through a juicer, which is what i do. a little goes a long way; with the random hedgerow ones i get 5-10 crabs per liter is more than enough to mimic a bittersweet cider apple. if it's too much you can blend it out later with a non-crabbed cider. as you can tell i'm excited about this; since taking the advice (on this forum) to try adding crabs last autumn my first two crabby batches are only recently ready to drink and the results are really promising, so i want to pass on the word as much as i can. the crab cider will need time to mature as it can be quite rank at first

 

[motobrewer]

meh, i asked my question here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/using-tannin-339353/