First AG batch! Questions...

[thelastleroy]

Hello everyone!

I've been lurking on here for quite a while, and finally did an AG batch this weekend. I built a counterflow chiller setup and used a cheap home-depot aluminum turkey fryer kit to boil. Cooler mash-tun and coopers beer kit fermenter/bottling bucket.

The beer I made was a guess at an IPA.

4 lbs canadian 2-row
4 lbs pale malt (not sure origin)
1 lb munich

90 min boil total

1oz nugget hops in at 60mins boil time
.5oz citra 15 mins after that
.5oz citra at flameout.

counter-flow cooled (instantly... can't imagine waiting longer!) to pitch temp, and a healthy, all grain starter added immediately. safale 05 yeast I believe.

A ton of hot break garbage and hops ended up in my fermenter, but boy oh boy did the yeast like it! I pitched at 11:45pm Saturday night, and by morning it was a frothing, churning mess inside that bucket. The coopers fermenter is neat, because it's clear/translucent and you can actually SEE the fermentation!

My sparge didn't go as well as it could have, and I ended up with less total volume than I had wanted. I mashed with 11L and batch sparged another 11L. I had "channeling" in the mashtun and I'm quite sure I lautered too fast. I have a feeling that much water was left behind in the grain and mashtun. Next brew I will try to work this out. After boiling, I was left with only 12L of 1.085 wort! I topped up the batch to 19L (approx 5gal) which left it at a pretty weak gravity (1.040). I just couldn't bring myself to do a 4-hour brew session for only 3 gallons of wort!

The primary is already slowing down, and I'm starting to think about messing with the batch.... even though I know I should just let it finish and call it a learning experience. Here's what I had in mind, hoping you guys had some opinions on what to do!

Option 1: Let it be. It will be beer, but kind of weak very hoppy session beer.

Option 2: hit it with a dose of strong DME/water to bump up the ABV, maybe 1 Gallon more in a fairly strong solution?

Option 3: do another small, strong AG brew (1 gallon) and "krausen" the batch, and let it finish for the next two weeks. Could probably do the mash in a pot/grainbag.

I'd basically like to add more volume, because I only have 1 fermenter and will be waiting a month or more for the beer. Next batch I'm going to start with more grain (probably 12 lbs) until I get the efficiency figured out on my mashes. this fermenter could easily handle a 6 gallon batch at full krausen.

The SG has already dropped to 1.008, at about 47hours fermentation. Making the starter really accelerated the process!

What to do?

 

[thelastleroy]

Ok it looks like I've got some views, but no replies yet. I'm thinking of "intervening" this weekend, and I need some advice.

I'd like to decide whether to F$#% with the batch or not, based on the advice of more experienced brewsters. What say you?

I thought of another option: Mash a strong, oversized (6-7 gallon) lager batch (I wanted to do one soon anyways) at a high OG and pull out a gallon of wort, cool it and add to the IPA to top off. Then top off the lager batch kettle with neat water at the end of the boil to bring the volume and gravity back into range. Ferment this in the fridge as usual, and drink the IPA while the lager is, erm, lagering.

I'm just so excited to be making my own beer in the garage to be honest. I've finally found the perfect combination of science, fabrication, and beer. What a hobby.

 

[teddy4xp]

One thing I have learned is once it is in the fermenter and yeast is pitched I don't mess with it. Let it finish in primary and see how it turns out.

 

[brewing_clown]

Maybe rack it onto some candi syrup? I have done that in the past with a dubbel.

I'd worry about oxygenation with options 2 and 3.

 

[thelastleroy]

Thank you for your input, that's one vote for let it be. Anyone else do something like this before? What was your experience?

I could rack it onto the addition, as brewing_clown suggested. I was just under the impression that the yeast going to work again would consume oxygen introduced at this stage, as I am not adding finished beer, but sweet wort.

candi-syrup will add ABV, certainly. Will there be any noticeable flavour contribution from the candi-syrup?

I'm thinking I'll do the lager this weekend whether I dose this batch or not.

 

[Gavin C]

Option 1 for me. Don't dick around with it. FG at 1.008 it's done. I'd package it at 10 days let it carb up and move on to the next brew. Learn the lessons from the first batch.

Volume errors
No need for starter with dry yeast

I wouldn't classify the beer as an IPA. Is that important? I don't reckon so.

Brew two
Grab a recipe from the database on HBT
Use an online tool to assist you work out your volumes.
If using a dry yeast again don't worry about a starter just rehydrate
Or you could harvest a jar or two of slurry from this one and save a few bucks

If your set on messing around go for it and have fun. Best of luck.

 

[Yesfan]

....I'm just so excited to be making my own beer in the garage to be honest. I've finally found the perfect combination of science, fabrication, and beer. What a hobby.

Another vote for let it be. I love the Beatles!


Sorry, wrong forum.


Seriously, I agree with Teddy. It's just good simple advice. I quoted the last part of your post because that's EXACTLY the way I sounded after my first ever batch of beer. My advice? I agree with Teddy and others on leaving it as is. Let it be and just do another brew day to take your mine off that batch. Then you'll have two batches of beer! (you can really not have too much beer....) Good luck!

 

[kh54s10]

Hello everyone!


The beer I made was a guess at an IPA.

4 lbs canadian 2-row
4 lbs pale malt (not sure origin)
1 lb munich

90 min boil total

1oz nugget hops in at 60mins boil time
.5oz citra 15 mins after that
.5oz citra at flameout.



1.085 wort! I topped up the batch to 19L (approx 5gal) which left it at a pretty weak gravity (1.040). I just couldn't bring myself to do a 4-hour brew session for only 3 gallons of wort!


Option 1: Let it be. It will be beer, but kind of weak very hoppy session beer.

With that hop schedule I don't think it will be very hoppy at all.

Option 2: hit it with a dose of strong DME/water to bump up the ABV, maybe 1 Gallon more in a fairly strong solution?

I wouldn't mess with it...

Option 3: do another small, strong AG brew (1 gallon) and "krausen" the batch, and let it finish for the next two weeks. Could probably do the mash in a pot/grainbag.

I still would not mess with it.

The SG has already dropped to 1.008, at about 47hours fermentation. Making the starter really accelerated the process!

What to do?

IMO you have a nice session pale ale. It would be nowhere near an IPA with the hop amounts. Did you use a recipe calculator?

I would let it ride. It should be nice. Then make changes for your next batch.

 

[covers42]

Should not need to wait longer than two weeks for fermentation and you could start another batch. Beer sounds a lot like a pale ale now and nothing wrong with that. Are you going to dry hop? I personally would just go with it and not add anything since summer is on the way and lighter beers are often desired.

 

[thelastleroy]

I didn't use a recipe. I totally winged it. The hops were just picked randomly from the fridge at the spartan LBS closest to my house. The grain was "a little of this, and a little of that", just because. Hopefully it will taste nice.

IPA is certainly the wrong style; I realize now after reading some other recipes. Seriously, how do you guys afford all that hops! Pale ale is the word for this batch then.

I'm going to let it be and bottle it up on day 10 as suggested. My first (coopers extract) batch is just about all gone now anyways. I'm going to get a lager going in a carboy this weekend. I love the sound of the "cats ass bitburger" recipe from the forum, I'm going to try and do one. It's going to mean driving farther to get the ingredients, as my close LBS doesn't even sell pilsner malt, or lager yeast!

 

[kh54s10]

Do you have a hydrometer? I would not do a beer by "I will bottle this in x days." I would check that you have final gravity then wait until it is clear... then bottle. At the earliest.

I would also recommend that you read up on lagers. They require a controlled fermentation schedule. I would not recommend this unless you have a decent fermentation chamber.

 

[acidrain]

Don't worry about channeling the batch sparge. You are confusing it with fly sparging.
Do this; when ready to sparge, add a bit of hot water (temp doesn't really matter) stir it really well, vorlauf, and then drain your first running completely. Calculate how much more water is needed to make up your total pre-boil volume, and add that (hot, but not boiling. Again, doesn't really matter. It could be cold water too) stir really well, and vorlauf until clear, then drain all of the second running. If you did it right, you would end up with exactly your pre-boil volume, and the two runnings would be of equal volumes.
Check Denny Conn's batch sparge method: http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

 

[thelastleroy]

Of course I have a hydrometer! Like I said, the pale ale in the fermenter right now was at 1.008 as of last night. I was planning on waiting at least a week before bottling to let it settle.

For the lager, I've got a nearly empty fridge in the garage that I can set for a suitable temperature via thermostat. We only use that fridge for pop and beer anyways. Will this work?

 

[antony]

Regarding your fridge...I'd grab a thermometer and see how accurate the thermostat is before you plan to lager. Its quite a more intricate temperature/time controlled process than an ale, though it'll all still make beer. Get the processes down & then you start to make really good beer. Best of luck.

 

[thelastleroy]

Maybe I'll just do some more ales while it's warm outside. The turnaround time is better with a short, warm ferment! I'll get a few brews under my belt (and into my belly...) and plan on doing a bunch of lagers in the fall when I can ferment in the cold garage.

The fridge will be difficult to dial in without automated PID switching or something like that. And then there's the mold issue with running a fridge at that temperature. Anyone have mold problems at 10* C in their lager fridge?

I'm in the process of designing a badass grain mill so I can start buying 55lb sacks of malt to save money on grain. I can build it myself from mostly salvaged parts, so why not!

Anyways, this thread is derailed. Thanks very much for your advice and wisdom everyone, I'll be around!

 

[doug293cz]

Maybe I'll just do some more ales while it's warm outside. The turnaround time is better with a short, warm ferment! I'll get a few brews under my belt (and into my belly...) and plan on doing a bunch of lagers in the fall when I can ferment in the cold garage.

The fridge will be difficult to dial in without automated PID switching or something like that. And then there's the mold issue with running a fridge at that temperature. Anyone have mold problems at 10* C in their lager fridge?

I'm in the process of designing a badass grain mill so I can start buying 55lb sacks of malt to save money on grain. I can build it myself from mostly salvaged parts, so why not!

Anyways, this thread is derailed. Thanks very much for your advice and wisdom everyone, I'll be around!

You don't need a PID to control a fermentation or lagering fridge. Just get an STC-1000. Lots of info on HBT and the net about how to wire up a project box. If you want something better than an mash up, you can go with a turn-key STC-1000+, or a STC-1000+ DIY kit from http://www.brewsbysmith.com/. The STC-1000+ allows you to set up fermentation profiles, really nice (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=464348).

Brew on

 

[jbb3]

I didn't use a recipe. I totally winged it. The hops were just picked randomly from the fridge at the spartan LBS closest to my house. The grain was "a little of this, and a little of that", just because. Hopefully it will taste nice....

First off, congrats on the first batch!

Now... I'm not sure to admire you for your "screw it I'm jumping in" attitude, or to admonish you for the who knows what kinda batch you just brewed?? No offense intended!!

But if you're in this for the science as well as the art, then you have to start with a baseline first don't you? I suggest that you start with 2 or 3 or 4 good recipes that sound good to you and brew those recipes 2 or 3 times each until:

1. You become comfortable with the process
2. You brew consistent beers

THEN when you get to that point, GO NUTS!!!! Experiment with ingredients, with adjunct additions, with various mash temps, with various fermentation temps, with various hop combinations, with whatever. Because by then, you will have built up your knowledge and your process to be able to experiment and know your process is solid and it's the recipe that created the results. Not luck or not a mistake in process.

But if you don't start with a baseline, then you're just flailing around and you have no idea what it should be so you can adjust your process for consistency.

Not trying being a buzz kill. Just hoping you learn what you're doing so you stick with the hobby for a long time to come.

Because I'm not sure I could have said it better!!!

...I'm just so excited to be making my own beer in the garage to be honest. I've finally found the perfect combination of science, fabrication, and beer. What a hobby.

Good luck and KEEP ON BREWING!!!

 

[chickypad]

My sparge didn't go as well as it could have, and I ended up with less total volume than I had wanted. I mashed with 11L and batch sparged another 11L. I had "channeling" in the mashtun and I'm quite sure I lautered too fast. I have a feeling that much water was left behind in the grain and mashtun. Next brew I will try to work this out. After boiling, I was left with only 12L of 1.085 wort! I topped up the batch to 19L (approx 5gal) which left it at a pretty weak gravity (1.040). I just couldn't bring myself to do a 4-hour brew session for only 3 gallons of wort!

Your numbers don't match there, I think you have a higher gravity brew than you think if your volumes were on. 12L of 1.085 wort topped off to 19 L would be about 1.054. I would trust the first post boil number, not the topped off number which is notoriuously inaccurate due to inadequate mixing. 1.054 to 1.008 is 6% ABV (I agree not enough late hops to be considered an IPA but it's in the gravity range). It also means you got about 79% efficiency, so I don't think you really need to work too hard on your process so much as recipes.

 

[stuknkrvl]

Have to agree with jbb3. You can throw some grains and hops in a bucket, set it outside overnight, and end up with something that loosely fits the definition of beer in a couple weeks. But good beer, great beer even, requires consistency. Imagine how disappointed you'll be if your pale ale/session IPA comes out tasting like the greatest beer you've ever had... but you can't reproduce it because you don't know what went in it.

There's a lot of great books out there for you to read as well. I started my library with Charlie Papazian's Complete Joy of Home Brewing and Ray Daniels' Designing Great Beers. They're both easy reads and they're loaded with recipes and all the theory behind how to create your own recipes.

Cheers!

 

[thelastleroy]

Once again, thanks for all the kind advice! I'm going to use a simple recipe for a while and brew it as many time as it takes to make something delicious. I'm going to do better on the volumes and try to predict what my post-boil volume will be so that I don't have to top off again. I'm also going to keep a brew log sheet for each batch from now on.

On another note the beer is dropping clear already, krausen has fallen and the FG has settled around 1.005. I'm thinking of bottling tonight!!

 

[stuknkrvl]

Some useful math from Ray Daniels' book -

Grain (weight in pounds) x 0.2 = gallons of water retained by grain

Use that to figure out how much sparge water you'll need to hit your preboil volume.

Preboil volume x 0.95 = post poil volume

That's just an estimate based on an average rate of 5% water loss per hour of boiling. It may be a little different for you depending on your equipment, but it's a good place to start.

Good luck!

 

[Gavin C]

Deleted

 

[chickypad]

Some useful math from Ray Daniels' book -

Grain (weight in pounds) x 0.2 = gallons of water retained by grain

Systems will vary but he's the only one I've seen use that number. Most calculators count on about a half quart per lb (.12-.125 gal) which is what I get in my regular tun. For BIAB I get about .09, I've seen calculations from .06-.1 depending on how much you squeeze.

 

[kombat]

Grain (weight in pounds) x 0.2 = gallons of water retained by grain

I've always heard 0.1 gallons per pound, but the difference is minor.

Preboil volume x 0.95 = post poil volume

This one seems a little understated. I usually start my 60 minute boils with 26 quarts (6.5 gallons), I lose about a half-gallon during the boil, which is in itself almost an 8% reduction. Throw in some reduction in volume as the wort cools (because - like virtually everything else in the universe - it contracts as it cools), and your post-boil volume will be well less than 95% of your pre-boil volume.

 

[stuknkrvl]

I've always heard 0.1 gallons per pound, but the difference is minor.



This one seems a little understated.

You're right, I forgot to account for shrinkage after it cools...

Try this -

Shrinkage during cooling = (desired final boil volume) ÷ 0.96

Evaporation assuming an average rate of 5%/hour = (Preboil volume) ÷ 0.95

Ex:
Batch size (desired volume) = 5 gallons
Final boil volume - add ~0.5 gal for trub and hop debris losses = 5.5 gallons
Shrinkage (5.5 ÷ 0.96) = ~5.73 gal
Evaporation (5.73 ÷ 0.95) = ~6.03 gal
Runoff volume (volume in kettle when boil starts) = ~6 gallons

Kombat and everyone else make good points, but ultimately it's gonna come down to your equipment and your system.

Take detailed notes, brew as often as you can, and strive for consistency.

 

[thelastleroy]

Ok, quick question:

I'm getting ready to bottle soon (tonight or tomorrow night) and I need some advice on batch priming.

I'm fermenting currently in my coopers fermenter/bottling bucket. Coopers uses a one-bucket approach, and sells you funny little dextrose "candies" to dose your 650ml bottles. Last batch I put two candies per bottle, and the carbonation was spot on. Bottled directly from the fermenter

This time 'round, I've bought plain old dextrose in powder/sugar form. So I understand it's best to boil the specified amount in a bit of water, cool, and pour into the bottling bucket, and then rack the beer onto it quietly as not to oxidize, then stir and bottle.

The problem is I would need to rack the beer off the lees/trub, clean the bottling bucket/fermenter, and then rack the beer back into the bucket to bottle. BALLS!

Next time I'll ferment in my carboy, and then rack to the bucket. But what to do right now? Weigh and dose each bottle? Go back to LBS and buy more silly coopers candy? I could try the double racking, but I fear stale beer.

 

[Gavin C]

Buy another bucket and bottling spigot

Sanitize

Use online calculator to determine how much sugar solution to make

Make it

Put in new sanitized bucket

Rack beer into the bucket with a coil of tubing at the bottom to create a swirl

DO NO STIRRING

Bottle right away

 

[jbb3]

Buy another bucket and bottling spigot

Sanitize

Use online calculator to determine how much sugar solution to make

Make it

Put in new sanitized bucket

Rack beer into the bucket with a coil of tubing at the bottom to create a swirl

DO NO STIRRING

Bottle right away

What he said^^^

If you stick with brewing, you'll always need a few buckets around for fermenting, for bottling, for???... It will be worth the small investment. And racking on top of a batch priming solution is the way to go.

 

[chickypad]

I've always heard 0.1 gallons per pound, but the difference is minor.

Well not that minor actually, with the average 5 gallon grainbill the difference would put you about a gallon off. But since you're planning to take good notes going forward OP you should be able to dial all this in pretty quick. I would recommend measuring the boil off as an hourly rate, not a percentage. It has more to do with the surface area of the pot, i.e. assuming other factors like humidity and vigor of the boil are the consistent you will boil off the same per hr whether you have 4 gallons or 10 gallons in there, but obviously that would be a big difference percentage-wise.