Fermentation stopped after going well - thinking about pitching more yeast.

[jharmon203]

So I tried to brew the pumpking clone receipe on brewer's friend. I always use yeast starters to make sure it's healthy. When I pitch my yeast, I always save a bit at the end to populate immediately for storage for the next brew. When I get to my next brew, I am basically already at my stage 1 starter. I used US-05 because it was the dry version of the liquid yeast recommended and it's just such a great yeast. I missed my target gravity, but it will still plenty high (1.079) for me because usually my brews finished lower that what recipes estimate. The starter looked nice and milky with a little bit of foam on top after about 48 hours. It was right around a 1.040 starter at 2L.

Well it was doing fine until it got down to around 1.061 and then it stalled. I have a tilt hydrometer in it. I looked in the beer and basically no activity. It has taken 3 days to get another .001. What are the cons to pitching more yeast in the beer? I already have my first step of my starter ready to go.

I have brewed with this yeast plenty of time with harvesting it, and this my first issue with fermentation getting stuck.

 

[doug293cz]

Have you jostled the fermenter? Tilts can get stuck in krausen or against the side of the fermenter, and then don't read correctly. Giving the fermenter a gentle shake can unstick the Tilt so it will start reading more correctly. A bit of krausen remaining stuck on the Tilt can affect the reading, but what you should really be looking for is the measured SG flat lining, and then use a hydrometer to get a really accurate FG.

Brew on

 

[Knightshade]

+1 on what doug said.

Curious to know if you took any additional steps to make sure your wort was nice and oxygenated. 1.079 is higher than average. Also might take a look at what temp your fermenting at? If you're still in the ideal range, maybe bumping it up a degree or two wouldn't hurt? My brew was kind of..taking a break yesterday so I bumped up the temp 2 degrees (it is day 6 anyways) and it looks like I've got some activity kicking back up again.

 

[jharmon203]

I just tried to give it a little swirl a few hours a ago and see how that goes. I regularly brew dipa with no issues around the same original gravity which is why this is odd. I oxygenated the worry by shaking and sloshing it. I also pour the beer into the fermenter get it a good oxygenated bath as well. I attached my tilt report.

 

[jdudek]

Do you see activity in the airlock or blow off hose? Bubbles? Or is it just completely dead?

I agree with the other tilt comments. They get stuck. Once I punched in an incorrect calibration gravity and the gravity readings did not move at all while it was clearly bubbling away.

If it’s dead I dont see the harm of pitching in more yeast. At 1.061, it can easily be a beer you just finished brewing so oxygen is not an issue this early on.

 

[jharmon203]

My airlock is bubbling about the rate of a finished beer. The tilt isn't stuck, i swirled the tank and it moved around freely. I wonder if my yeast wasn't great even after a starter.

 

[hotbeer]

I'd just wait. If you have any airlock activity at all, then I'd not even began to think it's time to take a SG measurement. And especially if it's still cloudy beer.

I have had ferments that seemed to stall or quit for a week, then later restart and bubble vigorously with a lot of fine champange like bubbles.

I fear a worse outcome by messing with it than just leaving it alone for as many weeks as it takes to clean up.

 

[jdudek]

I'd just wait. If you have any airlock activity at all, then I'd not even began to think it's time to take a SG measurement. And especially if it's still cloudy beer.

I have had ferments that seemed to stall or quit for a week, then later restart and bubble vigorously with a lot of fine champange like bubbles.

I fear a worse outcome by messing with it than just leaving it alone for as many weeks as it takes to clean up.

Yeah but at 1.061? Down from 1.079 if the pitch was good this is when it should be bubbling mad. At least in my experience. I’m on the side of “something isn’t right here”

 

[hotbeer]

Certainly something is wrong. But I don't know that it's not anything that time won't cure. The yeast might have gone inactive till something else gets them motivated to convert the sugar.

Maybe this is something to do with mash temps and unfermentable sugars and diastatic something or other that I've just started reading about. This was a all or partial grain recipe wasn't it?

If more yeast is put in it, then it probably should be dry yeast since it won't need added O2. I'd be happy to leave it alone though and not have to open the fermenter up.

Besides, the OP did state that there was airlock activity. So something is going on even if they haven't looked close enough into the beer to see the tiny bubbles rising to the surface pulling the trub and yeast with them.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

One obvious next step in my mind would be to take a gravity reading with a hydrometer to verify the current state.

 

[RufusBrewer]

One obvious next step in my mind would be to take a gravity reading with a hydrometer to verify the current state.

+1

Come to no conclusion and take no action until you a gravity reading with a hydrometer.

More than once, I was convinced that I had a problem with my fermentation. Until I pulled a sample and measured with the hydrometer. Not sure what and why things happened, but my beer was right hwere it should be.

 

[jharmon203]

Are people wanting me to take gravity reading with something other than the tilt? I do have another tilt I could drop in there to verify the other one is reading correctly. I watched my airlock today and it releases bubbles about every minute, but the gravity reading has stayed at 1.060 for 7 days. It was an all grain mash. The mash temp was high at 163 per the instructions.

Dry yeast doesn't need oxygen? Would it be an issue at all to pitch my harvested us-05 yeast (which is obviously now liquid) from a new starter? Is there any downside to pitching more healthy yeast and just putting it into a secondary when I reach my target gravity?

There are bubbles on top and the beer is cloudy. My krausen ring is not as thick as what I am used to seeing.

 

[hotbeer]

I don't particularly want to know what the SG is. If you have any activity at all going on in the fermenter then there is no point. IMO.

I don't get antsy to know such things until the beer looks completely devoid of any activity. And usually that's when it's somewhat clean looking beer.

Once you've hydrated your dry yeast and it's been more than a 15 minutes or what ever the mfr's re-hydration schedule is, then it's no longer dry yeast and the beer will need some amount of oxygenation. This has to do with biology stuff that I didn't take college courses in. I was lucky enough to pass some college chemistry courses.

Some of my ferments have left a lot of trub and yeast on the sides, some are big and foamy krausens, some are none of that.

If you don't know that you did something wrong with it, then just let it grow up to be the beer it wants to be. And it will let you know when it wants to be kegged or bottled.

 

[odie]

how much unfermentable is in the wort? 163 is high on the mash. Is your hydrometer actuate? test with plain water.

 

[jharmon203]

Most of the wort is fermentable.
Southern Tier Pumking clone | Holiday/Winter Special Spiced Beer All Grain Beer Recipe | Brewer's Friend (brewersfriend.com)

I am fairly certain my hydrometer is accurate. I cannot pull it out to test it in water at the moment because it's too difficult to reach.

 

[odie]

what is "tilt"???

 

[jharmon203]

tilt hydrometer. One of the best additions to my homebrewing.

Tilt™ Wireless Hydrometer and Thermometer – Tilt Hydrometer

 

[odie]

hmmm....use a traditional glass one with a sample...they don't fail or get stuck

but kinda hard getting a sample w/o a spigot so I see their attraction...

 

[jdudek]

do you have any calibration data entered into your tilt app? i once had a bad cal entry i put in by mistake, something like 1.05 = 0.00, which made the gravity reading not change at all during fermentation. Probably not what's going on, but worth a double check.

 

[jharmon203]

I don't see any calibration data entered. I did calibrate it in water a while back and haven't had an issue with it at all.

 

[doug293cz]

Most of the wort is fermentable.
Southern Tier Pumking clone | Holiday/Winter Special Spiced Beer All Grain Beer Recipe | Brewer's Friend (brewersfriend.com)

I am fairly certain my hydrometer is accurate. I cannot pull it out to test it in water at the moment because it's too difficult to reach.

That may not be true with a mash at 163°F. Your amylase enzymes may have denatured before they could finish hydrolyzing (converting to sugar) the wort.

Brew on

 

[jdudek]

How confident are you in your mash temp? could your 163 have been 165 or 166 or more at times? It does seem like a pretty high temperature for mashing. Literature (Palmer) seems to suggest 158 as the top end of the range.
if you have another tilt, seems like it would be worth throwing it in and see what it says. Or if you have a wine thief to take a sample into a regular hydrometer. i agree with other seems like you need another reading at this point. If the tilt is indeed reading corretly and you are at 1.060 with barely any activity, i'd say pitch more yeast. If the wort is not fermentable that won't help much, and in that case, the batch may be a goner, IMHO.

 

[jharmon203]

as for the mash temp, if anything it would have been lower than higher. I just put my other tilt in and it's reading the exact same thing. I think I am going to get more fresh us-05 dry yeast to pitch in it.

 

[odie]

it's done. bag it and tag it. Stick it in a dark closet if you think there is any sugars left but I think it's game over. You just got a low alcohol full bodied beer to drink.

US-05 is a solid yeast. It did ferment as it went from 79 to 60 so the yeast was good. Fresh yeast ain't gonna help it. You got plenty of yeast and it ain't finding any more sugar.

 

[csantoni]

Generally speaking I don’t rely on my tilt for accurate readings. It’s nice for trends and as a double check on fermenting temps but in a situation like this I’d pull a sample and use a traditional hydrometer.

 

[Knightshade]

+1 on trending. I've paid more attention to the temp values w/this current beer fermenting to calibrate it to the ink bird for my FC. I always measure pre and post w/hydrometer and it is almost always consistently off w/what the Tilt tells me, even though I've calibrated it (the Tilt) multiple times.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1199256/zamba-rakau-pale-ale/404364

 

[jharmon203]

Well I am shocked right now because one of the comments in this forum ended up coming true, perhaps from me carefully swirling the beer to get the yeast back up without sloshing air into it. It's fermenting again and has dropped down to 1.045 with airlock release happening every 15 seconds. I almost added more yeast, but the activity started to pick-up before I did.

 

[odie]

let it ride.

 

[hotbeer]

I just looked at the tilt data you gave in your OP. I'm assuming the data is from the time of pitch.

Several things I'm curious about.

Did you pitch at 77°F ?
Are you using some kind of temperature control?

If you did pitch at that temp, then why did the beer temp just steadily go down. That's why I'm wondering if you use something to cool your fermenter.

I'd expect the temps to get warmer 12 to 48 hours later as the krausen is doing it's thing. But it didn't.

I don't do lagers yet. But with ales and other stuff, I'd think you'd cool to your lowest temp before pitching and then maintain that or get warmer as the ferment progresses.

Cooling it from warmer seems like that will just put the yeast to sleep.

 

[jharmon203]

No temperature control other than the house AC. I didn't use any specific cooling on the beer after I put it into the fermenter from my brew kettle.

I typically get done brewing and take the beer down to the basement at the end of the day so it will get a bit cooler than what I keep my house at (74°F). Typically my beer does get warmer during the first part of high krausen, but you are right this time it did not.

Just fyi the yeast has gotten even a bit more active and it's down to 1.038 now. This is such an odd one.

 

[hotbeer]

I miss basements. Especially the days when basements were just basements. We just don't have them here.

With cooler temps on their way, is perhaps your basement cooler than other times you used it?

I had more issues in the first part of the year with slow ferments and seemingly stalled ferments when we had some real cold snaps and the temps where I keep my fermenter fell to the mid 60's instead of the ambient 98 to 70°F I tried to keep them at.

And though your temps are right in that ballpark for most of the days. It's quite a bit lower than what it started at. And to me, it just seems like pitching warm and cooling will have a less desired impact on fermenting.

Why let them get all roused up and partying madly if you are going to hose 'em down with cold water? Seems sadistic!

Pitch at your storage temps and those that think it's ideal will do their partying. Otherwise those that like cooler temps might have to wait for the others to clean up their mess before they can party and get wild.

 

[Tim K]

When I built my system my mash temps went too high and I ended up with a bunch of unfermentable sugars. It stopped fermenting after dropping 10 or 25 gravity points. I added some Glucoamylase to it and it fermented dry 1.000 in a few days. Your mash temps were at the upper limits of the enzymes, so if it spiked just a few degrees it could have denatured them.

 

[jharmon203]

I am currently at 1.015 just about ready for secondary. I guess my yeast just needed a swirl or something. Very odd.