Fermentation Questions

[bru-ster76]

I have my first batch (5 Gal) fermenting now in a 10G fermenting bucket with a loose fitting lid (by design). I am planning on keeping this in here during the initial active fermentation stage and then transfer into a 6G carboy with airlock.

Because the vessel is so big, I'm not planning on seeing any blowoff, but perhaps I'm wrong. Anyone have experience with this type of bucket? http://goo.gl/4c03w

What should I watch for to know when I should rack to the secondary?

 

[duboman]

If the lid only fits loose then airlock activity may be non existent as the gas will escape elsewhere

Before racking to secondary you take a reading to verify Final Gravity, this is the only way to know what the beer is doing. I usually check around day 10.

 

[McCoy]

Not to be pedantic, but why do you need a secondary? If you're planning to do a secondary, you'll want to transfer it into a 5G container (or be prepared to flush the headspace with C02) to prevent oxidation from the air left in the headspace. If you don't truly need a secondary (i.e. you're not added fruit or wood, you're not lagering, and you're not brewing something that needs extended bulk aging) then it's best to just keep it in the primary until you want to bottle it.

With a 5G batch in a 10G container you won't see any blow-off.

 

[bru-ster76]

Not to be pedantic, but why do you need a secondary? If you're planning to do a secondary, you'll want to transfer it into a 5G container (or be prepared to flush the headspace with C02) to prevent oxidation from the air left in the headspace. If you don't truly need a secondary (i.e. you're not added fruit or wood, you're not lagering, and you're not brewing something that needs extended bulk aging) then it's best to just keep it in the primary until you want to bottle it.

With a 5G batch in a 10G container you won't see any blow-off.

I was only planning to do a secondary cause I thought that's what I should do for further clarification. I'm not at all set on it.

Am I ok to leave it in this 10G fermenter the whole time? I never gave headspace any thought. I shouldn't need to worry about the 5G of headspace as it will soon be all CO2, right?

If it's recommended to leave it in this vessel, that's music to my ears, truthfully.

 

[McCoy]

The headspace will fill with C02, which will protect it from oxidation. Your beer will clarify whether you use a secondary or not. All that is required for clarification is time, whether in the primary, secondary, or bottle. The only thing that may change is if you bottle before the beer is clear in the fermenter then you may end up with more sediment in your bottle -- not really a big deal. The contemporary attitude is that secondaries are unnecessary for most styles.

If you are very concerned about getting a crystal clear brew, you may want to investigate using a fining like gelatin. I've never used it because my girlfriend is vegetarian, but apparently the stuff is magical for clearing beer.

 

[bru-ster76]

The headspace will fill with C02, which will protect it from oxidation. Your beer will clarify whether you use a secondary or not. All that is required for clarification is time, whether in the primary, secondary, or bottle. The only thing that may change is if you bottle before the beer is clear in the fermenter then you may end up with more sediment in your bottle -- not really a big deal. The contemporary attitude is that secondaries are unnecessary for most styles.

If you are very concerned about getting a crystal clear brew, you may want to investigate using a fining like gelatin. I've never used it because my girlfriend is vegetarian, but apparently the stuff is magical for clearing beer.

I don't think I'm overly bent on getting as clear as I can. I think after reading a few threads on leaving it in the primary, I see exactly what you mean. I'll leave it in and just wait it out. What can you tell me about "cold shocking" it in the chamber once it hits its FG?

Does my 10G vessel with loose lid have any negatives? Just wondering as I have a 6G carboy if one is better than the other for future batches.

Thanks!

 

[BigFloyd]

I don't think I'm overly bent on getting as clear as I can. I think after reading a few threads on leaving it in the primary, I see exactly what you mean. I'll leave it in and just wait it out. What can you tell me about "cold shocking" it in the chamber once it hits its FG?

Does my 10G vessel with loose lid have any negatives? Just wondering as I have a 6G carboy if one is better than the other for future batches.

Thanks!

I'd leave it in the primary to finish, especially since your secondary is 6 gallons (too much headspace) .

Once it's done, if you can drop the temp ("cold crash") to 35-36*F for 5-7 days, do that. It will clear the beer and also really help to firm up the trub layer so that it better stays in place when you rack over to the bottling bucket. Once I saw what it did for my beer, I do that on every batch. I have gelatin, but hardly ever see a need to use it.

 

[bru-ster76]

I'd leave it in the primary to finish, especially since your secondary is 6 gallons (too much headspace) .

Once it's done, if you can drop the temp ("cold crash") to 35-36*F for 5-7 days, do that. It will clear the beer and also really help to firm up the trub layer so that it better stays in place when you rack over to the bottling bucket. Once I saw what it did for my beer, I do that on every batch. I have gelatin, but hardly ever see a need to use it.

I should be able to do that in the ferm chamber. I guess that will be the real test to see if it can maintain that cold of a temp.

If I leave it for 3-4 weeks, do I need to bother doing samples to check to see if the SG has moved? Or after that length of time, I'm in the clear?

I don't like the idea of wasting beer for samples.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

You should be in the clear by then. I'd take at least one sample just to ensure I didn't get a stuck fermentation.

It's not really a waste as long as your tasting your samples. Just my .02.

 

[bru-ster76]

You should be in the clear by then. I'd take at least one sample just to ensure I didn't get a stuck fermentation.

It's not really a waste as long as your tasting your samples. Just my .02.

Sounds good. How much do you pull off to sample/test? I need around 250ml in my cylinder!!

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

I think it works out to about 8oz sample for my hydrometer. At work right now without access to my gear to check for sure.

 

[McCoy]

Just estimating, 8 oz is in the right ballpark, maybe as little as 6 oz. It's less than a bottle of beer but still a fair amount. I sometimes put the sample in a glass and chill it in the fridge, and it looks like a half-pour.

In the future I'd recommend using the 6 gallon carboy as your primary. The beers you produce in the 10 gallon bucket will be equal quality, but I'd feel more comfortable being able to see the beer without opening the vessel and knowing that the seal is good. I get some fruit flies in the apartment in the summer, so it's important that my stopper and airlock keeps them out. They may find their way around a loose-fitting lid.

Really, if you aren't planning to do many beers that require secondaries, just use both and brew more beer.

 

[two_one_seven]

If you are worried about that much volume loss then a refractometer is the way to go. It's more accurate than a hydro. I use a sanatized turkey baster to pull a small sample into a glass and then a couple of drops is all it takes. Swirl and taste 2 oz sample and you are good to go. Hydro is fine too just more of a pain IMHO.

 

[McCoy]

My understanding is the refractometers are not reliable for FG, only OG. Am I mistaken?

 

[jestmaty]

My understanding is the refractometers are not reliable for FG, only OG. Am I mistaken?

This converter is really accurate... took several hydro readings AND FG refractometer readings and they agree on FG number

http://www.northernbrewer.com/refractometer-calculator/#

 

[BigFloyd]

My understanding is the refractometers are not reliable for FG, only OG. Am I mistaken?

No, you are correct.

I only use my refractometer prior to the introduction of yeast into the wort. After that, it's the hydrometer all the way. You can try to use a correction protocol to convert the bogus refractometer readings, but those have a bigger margin of error than I'm happy with. I haven't tried the Northern Brewer one yet. Maybe it's worth a look.

If you take a look at some of the panicked "Help! My fermentation is stuck at 1.037!!" sort of threads, you'll see that a good many of them, when asked, reveal that they were using a refractometer to get those erroneous readings. Once they check it with a hydro, they find that their beer is really at an FG of 1.012 or something similar.

 

[bru-ster76]

So after 3-4 weeks in the primary, I'll cold crash it for another week, then bottle. How long should I wait to sample my first bottled brew?

 

[McCoy]

If you can wait, let it sit at room temperature for three weeks and then put one in the fridge for 48 hours. If that's to your liking, put more into the fridge and keep them there for a week before opening another. That's more or less the rule of thumb.

 

[bru-ster76]

Thanks McCoy. I'll do that.