Feeling ready to give up on BIAB.

[vance]

I'm seriously lost here. I've been brewing since July, BIAB the whole way. Today I did around my 8th or 9th batch. The first few were bottled, then I started kegging in late September. For the most part, my beers until the last two months have turned out good. Recently, I seem to have no idea what I'm doing.

My last three batches now, including the one today, have all turned out 10+ points under gravity. Even with low (70%) efficiency estimates, I just can't hit my ****ing numbers. Here's a run down of what's been happening:

October brew: West coast IPA. Missed gravity by a mile. Almost done with this keg, tastes pretty bad. No idea what the off flavor is, since I don't have any ability to really identify flavors. Feedback from experienced brewer at my LHBS was fermentation control

November brew: Blonde ale. Also missed gravity by a mile. Tastes terrible, I'm practically ready to dump this keg because I just don't like drinking it. There's sort of a weird sweetness, which the LHBS owner attributed to mash temps, as well as fermentation control.

December, today: NE IPA. For one, I screwed up my hop amounts I think - I bittered at 60 and added 2 oz each of Galaxy and Citra, at 10 and at flameout. My wort came out a nasty green color, and I'm regretting not adding whirlfloc. As for gravity, Beersmith projected 1.053, but I hit 1.04 or even lower - couldn't get a great reading, I forgot to take gravity until I had already shaken up my fermenter to aerate it a bit so there was some foam.

My mash temps weren't great - it's 24 degrees out today - but they were ok. I mashed in around 158, temps went from 154 to around 147 by 15 minutes left in the 60 minute mash, at which point I turned my propane burner back on low to keep in the conversion range and give a small mashout step.

I used priceless' BIAB calculator, and actually made the effort to check volumes this time. I don't know how to get precise measurements, I tried the kettle etching method with no success a few months back. However, I measured the height of my kettle as best as I could, divided it by the given size (11 gallons), and notched marks on my plastic mash paddle at 5, 6, 7, and 8 gallons. I barely had to squeeze the bag at all to hit my determined pre-boil volume, so it's possible I lost a few points there. However, my pre- and post-boil volumes seemed accurate.

I bought Omega Labs Hothead yeast for this batch, because I don't have time and space for fermentation control and I'm really, really hoping that was the biggest part of my issue. However, a common feel between the last two bad batches is a very thin, unsatisfactory feel, which I'm attributing to the terrible efficiency. The biggest previous suggestion was my crush. Apparently the closest LHBS to me has been having issues with their mill, and I posted a picture of my crush here to the general response of "not good enough". I went to a different store that actually specializes in brewing, and according to the owner has a much nicer mill. I had been hoping this was the silver bullet to solve my issues, but it doesn't appear to be so.

So, for anyone who managed to read this far - what do I do to make good beer again and keep the enjoyment in brewing I had a few months ago?

Edit: Water profiles. October batch I used tap water, as I did for all my previous good-tasting batches. November batch I decided to switch to RO + minerals - however, I screwed up and forgot to add the minerals till halfway through the mash. Today I added them at the correct times - 7 grams of gypsum, 2.8 grams of CaCl, and 3.2 mL of lactic acid, per Bru'n water recommendations to achieve 75 Ca/110 Sulfate.

 

[Morrey]

I understand your frustration. A few points I picked up from your issues.

1-Grind. This is a major player in hitting your numbers. Ever consider getting your own mill?

2-Mash temp. 158F is pretty high and gives you lots of long chain sugars that end up giving residual sweetness. The majority of conversion happens within a few minutes of mash in. 60 minutes is recommended for flavor extraction, but the starches are converted to sugars well before that....more like 10 minutes, some say less. 148F dry, 152 full bodied with sweetness and mouthfeel. The range is quite tight for single infusion mashes.

3- Consistency in volumes. Understanding grain absorption, boil off and volumes into fermenter is important. Learn your equipment.

4-Water chemistry and mash ph. Spend a bit of time learning the impact water chemistry management has on your product. Sounds like you are on the right track now. Make sure your mash ph is adjusted according to the grain bill you plan to mash in. Do it before you add the grain.

Keep on keeping on! You are just getting started and doing fine!!!

 

[vance]

I understand your frustration. A few points I picked up from your issues.

1-Grind. This is a major player in hitting your numbers.

2-Mash temp. 158F is pretty high and gives you lots of long chain sugars that end up giving residual sweetness.

3- Consistency in mash volumes. Understanding grain absorption, boil off and volumes into fermenter is important.

4-Water chemistry and mash ph. Spend a bit of time learning the impact water management has on your product.

Keep on keeping on! You are just getting started and doing fine!!!

Not sure what else I can do to fix my crush. Probably going to stick with the dedicated LHBS. Might ask them to tighten the gap or double crush it, not sure.

158F wasn't my mash temp, that was my grain in temp.

I think my grain absorption is off a bit - my strike water was 9.27 gallons, and my calculated pre-boil volume was a touch over 8 gallons. I hit that with only a very quick squeeze and letting my bag grain for a few minutes - if I had squeezed and drained more, I'm sure there was another half gallon of liquid in there.

I think I got my water chemistry right this time, assuming I used bru'n water correctly. My spreadsheet looked like this with my water adjustment: http://imgur.com/a/8MWJF

 

[McKnuckle]

The bag in BIAB is literally just a way to keep the grain and water separate. There is just nothing so special about the method itself to cause all of those issues. The beer doesn't know you got poor efficiency. It only knows its original gravity, which at 1.050 or whatever is not abnormal - even if you were shooting for 1.060. These things aren't usually a cause of bad flavors - just suboptimal outcomes relative to your target product.

Measure your water by weighing it. Buy a postal scale suitable for weighing packages that has gram resolution. Liters and Kilograms are equivalent with water - that is, 1L = 1 Kg. Convert to and from gallons if you like, but doing that that makes it super accurate to dough in with the right volume of water (and to have it be correct for the salts).

Measure how much your grain is absorbing by weighing the grain after you have recovered all the liquid from it. Dump it out of the bag into a small pot or pail, weigh it, and subtract the container's tare weight. That gets you absorption, which should lead to an accurate pre-boil volume figure. Let that bag drain! Drain it till the boil is about to start, then squeeze gently just to constrict it, and place it on a colander over a pail to collect a bit more while the boil begins. Dump that in within a few minutes or so.

Find out the evaporation rate by weighing your full fermenter (after recording the tare weight of the container). I write tare weights on all my vessels with a sharpie for reference.

If you're fermenting hot and without temp control, you may be hosed. Its importance to the quality of the beer is as fundamental as people tell you. And it has nothing to do with BIAB as you know. Hop and mash mineral screw-ups are also technique or attention flaws... just slow down and take your time when you brew. Measure those things out the night before. I put pre-weighed hop pellets into small pill jars with numbers on the lids; 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. - to indicate each addition.

I measure my water and salts the night before and put them into the kettle. Grain is weighed and put into a pail, ready to be milled. And so on. It really does get better! My first 10 batches were good enough to hook me in, but sucked in retrospect (I'm on batch ~70). I have dumped numerous gallons on my way to making delicious beer. Keep at it!

 

[soccerdad]

Crush finer, mash longer - you'll hit your numbers

 

[PGEduardo]

I'd recommend against all the weighing. Density changes with temperature.

Op - measure the inner diameter of your kettle and derive the formula for calculating the volume by the headspace. Just get a ruler and measure how far down the wort is, plug that into your formula for accurate volume.

Crush does affect efficiency, but I'd suggest just sticking with a single crush for consistency. Do 90 min mash if the crush is coarse to pick up some efficiency. Just be consistent!

Fermentation control is your most likely source of off tastes. With zero control you're flying blind. Search for the swamp cooler method and get it under control. If you're not willing to get this under control, give up brewing - you'll only ever make decent beer by accident and bad beer more often than not.

Follow the water chemistry primer to get started with dealing with pH...

 

[vance]

Crush isn't much under my control - I really don't have space or money for a mill, and I wouldn't save any money because I don't have space to store bulk grains either. I can ask my LHBS store to double crush next time, but I'm not sure how else I can change that. Mash pH shouldn't have been an issue this time - I input my grain bill accurately and added the right amounts of salts and lactic acid, so my mash pH should have been close to the 5.38 estimated by Bru'n water.

I had trouble getting a measurement for the diameter accurate enough for my tastes, but I'll take a look at it again.

And yeah, fermentation control is the issue. Like I said I'm using Hothead yeast this time, so I'm hoping that will solve my fermentation-related flavor problems. The swamp cooler method is more or less what I used to use, I just got lazy with it the last few batches. Not related to efficiency though, which is my biggest frustration.

 

[BowAholic]

I'm not much help but do a lot of BIAB 5 gallon batches. I start most with close to 7 3/4 gallons of water for mashing, and end up with right at 7 gallons of water to boil after squeezing the bag. It's pretty much what I follow for most beers, and I typically use 9-11 lbs. of grain. If I heat my water to about 160* I end up with close to 152* for the mashing. I put a leather welding jacket completely over/around the kettle and it usually stays within a couple of degrees for an hour. I do think that you need to find some place where you can keep the fermentation bucket in the upper 60s... it will really help stop off flavors.
Don't give up....maybe someone here lives close enough to you to help?

 

[Morrey]

The bag in BIAB is literally just a way to keep the grain and water separate. There is just nothing so special about the method itself to cause all of those issues. The beer doesn't know you got poor efficiency. It only knows its original gravity, which at 1.050 or whatever is not abnormal - even if you were shooting for 1.060. These things aren't usually a cause of bad flavors - just suboptimal outcomes relative to your target product.

Measure your water by weighing it. Buy a postal scale suitable for weighing packages that has gram resolution. Liters and Kilograms are equivalent with water - that is, 1L = 1 Kg. Convert to and from gallons if you like, but doing that that makes it super accurate to dough in with the right volume of water (and to have it be correct for the salts).

Measure how much your grain is absorbing by weighing the grain after you have recovered all the liquid from it. Dump it out of the bag into a small pot or pail, weigh it, and subtract the container's tare weight. That gets you absorption, which should lead to an accurate pre-boil volume figure. Let that bag drain! Drain it till the boil is about to start, then squeeze gently just to constrict it, and place it on a colander over a pail to collect a bit more while the boil begins. Dump that in within a few minutes or so.

Find out the evaporation rate by weighing your full fermenter (after recording the tare weight of the container). I write tare weights on all my vessels with a sharpie for reference.

If you're fermenting hot and without temp control, you may be hosed. Its importance to the quality of the beer is as fundamental as people tell you. And it has nothing to do with BIAB as you know. Hop and mash mineral screw-ups are also technique or attention flaws... just slow down and take your time when you brew. Measure those things out the night before. I put pre-weighed hop pellets into small pill jars with numbers on the lids; 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. - to indicate each addition.

I measure my water and salts the night before and put them into the kettle. Grain is weighed and put into a pail, ready to be milled. And so on. It really does get better! My first 10 batches were good enough to hook me in, but sucked in retrospect (I'm on batch ~70). I have dumped numerous gallons on my way to making delicious beer. Keep at it!

OMG...I thought I was the lone stranger out there who weighs out my hops and ingredients and label the containers the night before. I got a sleeve of those transparent cups like restaurants use to put takeout salad dressings in with lids. I use a Sharpie to write 60, 30, 10....whatever and set a timer for each addition. I even put a whirlfloc in a labeled cup and my brewing salts too.

And to support your "dumping" a beer.....if you haven't dumped a batch yet, you aren't brewing enough!

 

[vance]

I'm not much help but do a lot of BIAB 5 gallon batches. I start most with close to 7 3/4 gallons of water for mashing, and end up with right at 7 gallons of water to boil after squeezing the bag. It's pretty much what I follow for most beers, and I typically use 9-11 lbs. of grain. If I heat my water to about 160* I end up with close to 152* for the mashing. I put a leather welding jacket completely over/around the kettle and it usually stays within a couple of degrees for an hour. I do think that you need to find some place where you can keep the fermentation bucket in the upper 60s... it will really help stop off flavors.
Don't give up....maybe someone here lives close enough to you to help?

Fermentation related off flavors are easy enough to fix, between using Hothead yeast and going to some sort of swamp cooler if I have to. I'm more concerned with my terrible efficiency and the thin feel my beer has. I'm in Columbus, OH, for what it's worth.

 

[kh54s10]

158 being the grain temperature during the mash IS your mash temperature and that is quite high. I rarely if ever go over 154 degrees. An IPA would probably be at 148, maybe 150. 158 is going to give you a really sweet beer.

How big is your batch into the fermenter. I have a very high boil off at 2 gallons per hour and I only need just over 7 gallons preboil to get to 5 in the fermenter. Are you ending up with the right amount into your fermenter.

What is your fermentation temperature. Most ales should be fermented (wort temperature during fermentation) in the mid sixties. If you are exceeding 70 degrees by much this might be a large part of your problem.

Crush is the most common way of ending up with a low OG. Have the better LHBS tighten up or double mill. Make sure they know it is for BIAB.

Are you pitching the proper amount of yeast. If you are using liquid yeast you should be making starters.

I would go to good store bought water until you get a handle on things. Making chemistry adjustments is throwing more variables into the equation.

 

[treacheroustexan]

I think he means 158 is the strike water temperature... not actually mashing that high.

Maybe go back and brew one of the first recipes you had that you liked and see if you can replicate it? If you do that and it turns out good, maybe it's just your recipes you've been brewing lately.

 

[vance]

Doesn't your temperature drop once you add the grain? My understanding was you heat the water to 5-6 degrees above the desired temperature.

I've been ending up with a little less than desired lately, so this one I shot for 6 gallons into the fermenter and got that with about a gallon left in the fermenter, so that was correct. It was a NE IPA style so I accounted for a bit of extra trub.

Just ambient temp. Definitely getting on fixing this, I've been slacking off, but poor efficiency is harder for me to fix - fermentation is as easy as hothead yeast or a swamp cooler.

I meant to make a starter for this but didn't have time with finals. Ended up just pitching straight from the pack.

What do you mean store bought water? Won't that just be RO or distilled? Adding the salts is easy enough, even if bru'n water isn't exactly user friendly.

 

[daygobrewer]

I picked up BIAB this year after taking some time off from brewing.

I too didn't have control over my grind, and still don't have fermentation temperature control.

A 90 minute mash will fix a lot of your issues, and will give you a consistent expectation of what you can expect to extract out of your grains. If you're still not hitting your ideal gravity, it might be time to up your grain bill.

Fermenting your beer outside of the ideal temperature range of your chosen yeast will absolutely demolish your expectations of making something fantastic. I'm not saying it won't be drinkable or alright, but it won't be the best product your can create. Play to your circumstances.

For me, that's meant using OYL057 (Omega HotHead), WLP644 (White Labs Sacc Trios), and WY3711 (French Saison). These yeasts handle well if your room temp results in fermentation temps above 70 F. ALL of the beers I've made with these yeasts have been fantastic. I used Conan on a couple of batches. The first I was able to keep within temp range, and it came out great. The second got too hot, and the beer was an absolute disappointment. I won't be using it again.

In summary, 90 minute mash, and yeasts that play nice at higher temps.

 

[vance]

I grabbed the HotHead for the IPA I made today. Looking forward to what it can do even with ambient temps in my basement.

 

[daygobrewer]

I grabbed the HotHead for the IPA I made today. Looking forward to what it can do even with ambient temps in my basement.

I'm brewing my 3rd beer with this yeast (just finished the hopstand; it's chilling now). I've only used it for NE IPAs. You should expect apricot and citrus. It's a great yeast.

 

[MVKTR2]

Cpl things come to mind. First buy a new probe thermometer/calibrate your existing thermometer to eliminate possible temperature issues. Secondly there are a cpl manufacturers of pre packaged brewing salts. I'd purchase a packet for a style you want to brew, make a batch to see how it turns out as a test of water chemistry. Finally a pH meter would tell you a lot about what's going on in your mash.

Perhaps the best thing is to brew with an experienced successful local brewer and go to a swamp cooler.

Finally the 90 min mash will probably solve conversion issues unless you're just getting terrible water chemistry. The flip side is you're also complaining of thin beer. Longer mashes tend to decrease dextrines and make wort more fermentable.

The great news is with the info in this thread and input from local experienced brewers you've got some tools to solve your problems.

 

[RM-MN]

Until you control the mill, you are not going to get consistent efficiency and not great efficiency in any case. It is not in the LHBS interest to mill grain to suit you. It is in their interest to mill grain that won't give other brewers problems with draining their mash tun and the poorer efficiency is easily overcome by buying more grain which is a profit item for the LHBS.

If you want to hit your numbers consistently a cheap Corona style mill will accomplish that. I put mine in a space that is 6" by 6" by 16", hardly a big space to find and after adjusting the recipe for the higher efficiency I get by reducing the amount of grain (notice I said reducing, not buying more) I can hit my numbers every time. I hand crank my mill. It helps to burn off the calories I get from drinking beer.

 

[bucfan1234]

Not sure what else I can do to fix my crush. Probably going to stick with the dedicated LHBS. Might ask them to tighten the gap or double crush it, not sure.

158F wasn't my mash temp, that was my grain in temp.

I think my grain absorption is off a bit - my strike water was 9.27 gallons, and my calculated pre-boil volume was a touch over 8 gallons. I hit that with only a very quick squeeze and letting my bag grain for a few minutes - if I had squeezed and drained more, I'm sure there was another half gallon of liquid in there.

I think I got my water chemistry right this time, assuming I used bru'n water correctly. My spreadsheet looked like this with my water adjustment: http://imgur.com/a/8MWJF

When I started all grain I was always low on efficiency. It takes time and using your set up to figure out your actual system losses and volumes. The volume being the biggest variable for me.

Sometimes the stated volume of the kettle isn't really accurate. I have one 30 quart kettle that wont hold 5 gallon of hot water.

What I did to measure volumes was to add hot water to the kettle one gallon at a time and then notch a yardstick as I went. Its time consuming, but it really helped me nail down the volume issue which got me to hitting my numbers.

The second variable that I eliminated was mash temp fluctuation. It seems your mash temp is falling quite a bit from beginning to end. I wonder if you are moving forward before conversion is complete. I noticed a big difference once I was able to to control the mash temp and keep it for the duration. Also, its worth $2 at walmart to buy some tincture of iodine to check your conversion.

You think the water isn't the issue, so the only other variable I can think of is the grain itself. Are you always buying grain from the same place? If so, come up with a recipe and order a batch from an internet shop like farmhouse or AIH and see what happens. If you get the same result, then you know its one of the other variables.

Once I nailed down volumes, dead space volumes and mash temp/complete conversion, I was able to learn the efficiency of my system and adjust it over time. Use a program like brewsmith to adjust recipes to your systems efficiency. I have found that doing so, and focusing on the variables above, has helped me to hit my numbers and make better beer.

So don't quit and good luck on your future batches.

 

[Redlantern]

My mash temps weren't great - it's 24 degrees out today - but they were ok. I mashed in around 158, temps went from 154 to around 147 by 15 minutes left in the 60 minute mash, at which point I turned my propane burner back on low to keep in the conversion range and give a small mashout step.

I bought Omega Labs Hothead yeast for this batch, because I don't have time and space for fermentation control and I'm really, really hoping that was the biggest part of my issue. However, a common feel between the last two bad batches is a very thin, unsatisfactory feel, which I'm attributing to the terrible efficiency.

So, for anyone who managed to read this far - what do I do to make good beer again and keep the enjoyment in brewing I had a few months ago?

Just wondering of your thermometer is accurate.

If you are mashing too low, will all be fermentable. I have never found much of a difference in taste between a 148°F mash and a 152°F mash, but if it is supposed to be 154°F-156°F and you are at 144°F, you may not be mashing long enough to get complete conversion (bad yield) and all of your sugars will be fermentable, leaving a drier beer with considerably less body.

May want to calibrate with boiling distilled water and taking a reading then making ice water with distilled ice cubes and seeing how well your thermometer is working.

If you are doing pale colored beers, you may want to do a simple iodine test during mash to check for conversion.

 

[augiedoggy]

Not sure what else I can do to fix my crush. Probably going to stick with the dedicated LHBS. Might ask them to tighten the gap or double crush it, not sure.

158F wasn't my mash temp, that was my grain in temp.

I think my grain absorption is off a bit - my strike water was 9.27 gallons, and my calculated pre-boil volume was a touch over 8 gallons. I hit that with only a very quick squeeze and letting my bag grain for a few minutes - if I had squeezed and drained more, I'm sure there was another half gallon of liquid in there.

I think I got my water chemistry right this time, assuming I used bru'n water correctly. My spreadsheet looked like this with my water adjustment: http://imgur.com/a/8MWJF

so you mashed in at 158 in a 25 degree environment? If I want to mash at 151 I mash in with water at 163 degrees. and I brew indoors!

sounds like your mash temps are too low for proper conversion to me...

 

[Biscuits]

It sounds like you have a lot of good advice in this thread but one thing, that I didn't see/missed as I cruised the thread is simply the grain:water ratio. Sure, crush is typically an issue, although until Santa comes this year, I am milling my grain at my HBS and their gap isn't the greatest and I still maintain high 85%-95% conversion efficiency.

Anyway, my point is that until you learn your system and it's losses, you may simply be adding too little grain to too much liquor which is resulting in very low gravities.

If you're total volume of brewing liquor is 9 Gallons and you're using 11 lbs of grain then your OG will be lower than if you used 8 Gallons, obviously. My point here is that, when you're transferring to your fermentor, if you're dumping everything in and not leaving any trub in the kettle, technically, you're not really transferring 6 gallons of wort...some of that is trub which will eventually settle and become loss at bottling time. Essentially, you cannot avoid losses as they will present themselves eventually..it is inevitable...the key is to know your losses and adjust your recipe accordingly. This is why I dislike when recipes are given in pounds and ounces instead of percentages...sure having the weight is a great starting point but since everyones system is different, it can cause people to get lost in the weeds on what they are doing wrong and chasing their own tail down the rabbit hole.

The good news is, given your temperament and passion for brewing, this is where it gets fun! Each brew-day you will learn more about your system and find ways to reduce losses and gain efficiency.

A simple and easy way to measure volumes is to do similar to what you've already done. Fill your kettle a gallon at a time and make markings on a stick or on your paddle. I included .25 and .50 gallon markings as well to help me get more accurate measurements. Do the same on your fermentor...add a piece of tape at each level and write down the volume markings on it.

You want to measure: (at least)
- Volume of water at room temp before heating for mash
- Volume of wort to kettle (before boil)
- Volume of wort after boil
- Volume to fermentor
- Volume bottled

After you have an idea of your losses at each of these points, you will better understand why you're not hitting your gravities and you can adjust your grain bills/crush/pH/whatever to get what you want.

Alternatively, if this sounds like too much effort for what it's worth...there is absolutely nothing wrong with extract brewing.

 

[Biscuits]

so you mashed in at 158 in a 25 degree environment? If I want to mash at 151 I mash in with water at 163 degrees. and I brew indoors!

sounds like your mash temps are too low for proper conversion to me...

Mash thickness and grain temp will effect what strike temp should be. Thinner mash won't require as high a strike temp as a thick mash.

 

[TorMag]

Use Beersmith. It is worth the $25 investment. You can set up your system in the equipment profiles.

 

[augiedoggy]

Mash thickness and grain temp will effect what strike temp should be. Thinner mash won't require as high a strike temp as a thick mash.

to a point yes but I still dont see how 158 degree water mixed in a 25 degree environment will result in even 150 degree mash temps
imerging a bag of cold grain all at once will lower the temp faster as well as doughing in slowly.

 

[augiedoggy]

Use Beersmith. It is worth the $25 investment. You can set up your system in the equipment profiles.

good point... beersmith is what suggested I dough in with 163 degree water when mashing at the common 1.25q per lb of grain in a 68 degree room for a 151degree mash so...

 

[BowAholic]

if you are starting with 8 gallons pre-boil WITHOUT MUCH SQUEEZING... seems like you would be a bit watered down as far as gravity... ? I start boiling with almost 7 gallons and still have 5.25-5.5 gallons for my fermenter. The only time that I thought my efficiency/OG was low was once when I took the reading after pulling the hydrometer out of very hot starsan solution to measure OG... once I corrected it for the high temp I was OK.

 

[Biscuits]

to a point yes but I still dont see how 158 degree water mixed in a 25 degree environment will result in even 150 degree mash temps

The environment being the wild card here, I often mash in with similar strike temps and hit my target in the 150's...but no brewing software will account for ambient temp of the room or environment...at that point it is on the brewer to maintain temps.

 

[augiedoggy]

The environment being the wild card here, I often mash in with similar strike temps and hit my target in the 150's...but no brewing software will account for ambient temp of the room or environment...at that point it is on the brewer to maintain temps.

beer smith does... It actually asks you for the ambient room temps.. it also takes into account the material your mash tun is made of and whether its insulated...

 

[jekeane]

I have used the spreadsheet from biabinfo.com "BIABacus" It takes jumping through a few hoops to get like joining their forum and making a post I believe. It takes some work to get used to and it is also in metric which is annoying at first but I prefer now.

I probably have 75 batches done using that spreadsheet with 3 different kettles and I have never missed my numbers. I have tried a handful of the online calculators but I recommend the biabaccus spreadsheet over anything I've used.

 

[Norselord]

One of the things to consider also, is that if you are not hitting your OG, then you might be significantly over-bittering your beers.

Let's say that you have a pale ale designed for 40IBU and an OG of 1.055. You will have a designed Bitterness ratio of about 0.72. This is a decently bitter beer.

However if you miss your gravity and get an OG of 1.045 and still have 40IBU it will have a Bitterness ratio of 0.95.

The original design might be for a nice bitter ale, but the result may be a bitter pill to swallow.

After you remove the grain, take a specific gravity reading. If it is low by a certain amount, you can fix this (you will need to use a refractometer on this, or cool down your sample if using a hydrometer, or use a calculator to compensate for temperature).

Let's say that your pre-boil gravity is supposed to be 1.045 and post-boil is supposed to be 1.055. Instead your pre-boil gravity is 1.035 at a volume of 6 gallons, then you need to boil off 2 gallons to get to 1.055 postboil gravity instead of the normal 0.9 gallons. You will need to know your boil off rate, so you can still add your hops at the right time. You will also be making a smaller volume of beer that may be slightly darker and have some more malt complexity than originally intended; but at the very least it will be bittered correctly.

 

[Biscuits]

beer smith does... It actually asks you for the ambient room temps.. it also takes into account the material your mash tun is made of and whether its insulated...

Ah, my mistake.

 

[vance]

I followed Beersmith's temperature recommendations for strike water. I don't usually have so much volume in my mash, but I was brewing an IPA with a ton of hops and lately the amount I've been able to get into my keg has been a bit under 5 gallons, so I shot for 6.75 gallons after my boil, ~6 into my fermenter, and then 5 into my keg.

Re thermometer calibration: Not sure how much difference distilled vs non-distilled makes, but I checked it as I boiled some water yesterday and it read about 211.3 in boiling water.

I tried to get a good handle on my volumes, but I couldn't come up with an accurate way to get a gallon of water by weight. I don't have a scale that can handle that much, and I wasn't about to weigh out a gallon 4 ounces at a time. A gallon of room temp water is approximately 1.59" of height in my system, which makes my problem even worse since that's not a value that's easy to nail with a ruler.

 

[vance]

if you are starting with 8 gallons pre-boil WITHOUT MUCH SQUEEZING... seems like you would be a bit watered down as far as gravity... ? I start boiling with almost 7 gallons and still have 5.25-5.5 gallons for my fermenter. The only time that I thought my efficiency/OG was low was once when I took the reading after pulling the hydrometer out of very hot starsan solution to measure OG... once I corrected it for the high temp I was OK.

I aimed a bit high on kettle loss and fermenter loss this time, since I've undershot recently and I was brewing a NE IPA with tons of hops. I had a little over 7 at the end of the boil, with about 6 into my bucket.

 

[Redlantern]

Re thermometer calibration: Not sure how much difference distilled vs non-distilled makes, but I checked it as I boiled some water yesterday and it read about 211.3 in boiling water.

May not be much based on water. but it may swing a degree or two based on season and what minerals are present.

Just good practice to be consistant

 

[Ogri]

Don't have much input regarding hitting desired gravity other than to say, a cheapo Corona mill can be found for $18 to $30 on Amazon. Works perfectly for BIAB, in my experience. Getting around 90% efficiency from mashing with tap water treated with Campden tabs, here. MaxiBIAB with a sparge. Decreased grain bill in order to hit optimum gravities

Having thought about using, and posting a thread here to ask if anyone had any info on, Omega labs' "hot head" strain, I was informed it is a distillers' yeast. Supposedly not good for making beer.

 

[Epos7]

I've also had issues with conversion efficiency due to poor crush (and I even bought a $400 mill that didn't work well) and understand your frustration. I started out triple crushing using my LHBS mill, and that was even worse. If you can't afford a mill, I'd just use more grain to compensate.

The conversion efficiency could be the source of your flavor issues. I've learned making citra pale ales that if conversion efficiency is poor causing OG to be low, the balance between maltiness and hoppiness will be off, and the beer won't taste quite right. I thought I was getting off flavors at first, before I realized that without the proper malt/hops balance, some hops just don't taste right. If you can compensate for your poor conversion efficiency by using more grain, you should be able to produce beers that are more in balance.

 

[markstache]

I would listen to the advice regarding crush and temperature. If you don't have one already, buy a digital thermometer. Dial thermometers are particularly easy to get out of calibration. A decent one can be had for less than $20 (or you can pony up for something more expensive).

I'd also suggest trying other sources for ingredients. Order from an online source that will do double-milling. Perhaps also try an extract batch to eliminate the mash as part of your procedure. Keep narrowing it down.

Finally, I am of the opinion that pretty much all off flavors can, at times, be caused by bacterial and wild yeast contamination. Double and triple check your sanitization procedures.

 

[TheMadKing]

Ok so after reading this whole thread I'll pitch in my $.02. Some of it is redundant, so I apologize for piling on. I have BIAB since my first all grain brew, and my mash efficiency has balanced out around 75%. I even just did a barleywine where I hit 69%. So the problem isn't BIAB, it's something in your process.

1: Ask the LHBS to double crush your grain. It will help a ton!
2: You are using way too much water. If you're making 5 gallon batches, you should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 7.5-8 gallons, this seems like the most likely reason you are missing your gravity numbers. I have a 15 gallon pot with a 1.2 gallon/hour boil-off rate and I usually use about 7.5 gallons to start with. I end up with about 1/4 gallon of trub in my kettle, and 1/2 gallon of loss in my fermentor, so I aim for 5.5 gallons post boil.
3: as far as measuring your volume, do you own a blender with graduated markings on it? or use a 2L soda bottle, or any other container of a known size to measure your volume into the kettle. Pour in 1 gallon, Use a piece of copper pipe, and place it vertically in your kettle and make a mark on it at the water line. Then one more mark for each gallon of water you add. Take a hack saw and cut a line into the copper at each mark. Then you have a permanently marked dipstick.
4: Beersmith is worth the money, but even brewersfriend should steer you pretty well. Make sure you are putting in your ingredients and volumes accurately. These programs are garbage-in-garbage-out
5: Try a dunk back into your wort after your grains have drained. You can gain a few points of gravity that way too.
6: No offense, but it sounds like you are sort of just trying stuff without a real plan... slow down man... you have time. Be methodical, analyze your batches, try to identify the problem.
7: Follow a recipe. I don't know if you are already doing this, but it always helps to know you are making a beer that was good for someone else first.
8: Pay attention to the details. Missing your volume by 0.5 gallons can have a fairly large effect on your gravity readings.
9: Simplify as much as possible. Don't try to fiddle with every variable. It doesn't matter if your mash temp drifts from 154 to 147. People mash overnight without issues. Just ignore the temperature drift and focus on getting your initial temperature and volume correct. Keep your mineral additions basic. Try 100% RO water with only lactic acid to control mash pH. Don't try to outsmart your equipment by changing your volume drastically (1 gallon more water) between brews. Small changes, refine the process, relax, don't try too hard.
10: Mash for 90 minutes

It's always frustrating when nothing seems to be working, but that's ALWAYS because you haven't tried the right thing yet. The answer exists, you just have to work the problem and find it. Be methodical, change 1 thing at a time, stick to the recipe. Good luck!

 

[HOPME]

As the late great Jimmy V once said, "don't give up, don't ever give up". Well, OK, he was battling cancer but you get it.

Brew on brother, you'll figure it out with all the advice shared here. We're not pro's, and even they F up multiple times before they get it.